Oak Island Factual (proven/documented) Information

[n2mini]

I'm just trying to get across that stuff that is important and would be known I'd think are not in it so who is to say that IF he did do anything he didn't want others to know about that it is not in there as well... AGAIN I'M NOT SAYING he came to OI, only that if he did it might not be written about and his Diploma is by no means a good reference point for that...

 

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[Singlestack Wonder]

482 posts and still not one shred of evidence that anything significant was ever on hoax island....

 

[ECS]

"Henry Sinclair, an Earl of Orkney of the late fourteenth century, didn't go to America.
It wasn't until 500 years after Henry's death that anybody suggested that he did"- Brian Smith, NNEW ORKNEY ANTIQUARIAN JOURNAL Vol2, 2002

And who you might ask "suggested that he did"?
1875 Richard Henry Major translated that hoax ZENO MANUSCRIPT changing Prince Zichmni to Prince Sinclair, which Sinclair Thomas Sinclair took up the cause in 1892 stating that his ancestor discovered America and claimed it for Orkney and came to the United States and Canada holding meetings with Sinclairs , giving talks and selling pamphlets.

"This (Sinclair) story is a modern myth, based on careless reading, wishful thinking, and sometimes distortions, and during the past five years or so has taken new outrageous forms"- Michael Remillard, historian, November 29,2016
One can thank Diana Jean Muir with her "found" Lost Templar Journals of Prince Henry Sinclair for creating this interest in minor noble Henry Sinclair and a voyage that never happened, "not that he(Sinclair) didn't want others to know about that".

If Henry Sinclair made that voyage to Nova Scotia, the period of time Sinclair was not on Scottish soil honoring his Oath of Fealty of defending Scottish soil against all enemies WOULD have been mentioned in both Diplomas, as well as the reason of why he was absent. If you are aware of Muir's journals story, his ship, St Katherine was wrecked on Oak Island and his band built a ship from scratch in the Nova Scotia wilderness to sail back to Scotland.
That would have been mentioned in the Diplomas if that happened, but then again, Henry Sinclair was neither a Prince or a Templar.

 

[n2mini]

Again I don't care about Sinclair. But you want to think his Diploma is all knowing and it is not as I have shown. You want to believe cetain parts of his story is all true yet don't want to believe the first story written about OI . Yet the info on Sinclairs death is all over the place even in his Diploma..So how do we know what to believe about the man. IF there are stories on him not knowing when and how the man died why should we believe that just because those same stories don't mention him leaveing the area we should take that as a fact that he didn't. In my book it doesn't work that way.. Apparently it does in yours.. If parts of the story are not right how do we know which parts we should believe is all I'm saying and trying to get across.

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

485 posts and still nothing.....

 

[ECS]

Again I don't care about Sinclair. But you want to think his Diploma is all knowing and it is not as I have shown...

All you have shown my friend n2mini is that you do care about Sinclair and your total lack of understanding the importance of the Diplomas and that you continue to overlook that hard fact there was NO mention for 500 years of this alleged Sinclair voyage until Richard Henry Major substituted Sinclair for Zichmni in his published translation of the proven hoax Zeno Manuscript.
It doesn't really matter when he died, but that there is NO mention anywhere of this voyage until Major's translation and then Thomas Sinclair promoting this story on the 1890's.
While it may not work in book of limited understanding of Medieval Oath of Fealty, Sinclair could NOT depart Scottish soil without the permission from whom the Oath of Fealty was sworn, and that would have been a written record.
There is no such record, but in Bishop Thomas Diploma, he mentions that Earl Henry Sinclair was defending the Scottish border against the English honoring his obligation of his Fealty Oath during the time of the alleged voyage.
So for your "how to we know what to believe", the documentation exists as well as the research of British, Scottish, especially Orkney historians that this voyage never occurred, but is a modern created myth.

 

[gazzahk]

485 posts and still nothing.....

BUT... There only 1 more shaft away from the money pit now. Than we will have treasure...



You will feel pretty foolish when next episode they show this off...

 

[ECS]

...
Firsthand account from one of the original 3. Doesn't mean there is or was treasure in it but hopefully will put an end as to whether or not the 3 dug the hole.
Technically it would be a re-dig as they were hoping it was a hole that had treasure in it and it had been backfilled...

Was there a hole in 1753 when New York Fishmongers John Gifford and Richard Smith owned Oak Island?

 

[n2mini]

I have no idea as I was not there. I'm guessing it wasn't actually a hole at that point as it had been filled in. BUT who knows maybe they dug the hole themselves for some reason and back filled it in and it settled somewhat and then the "original 3" found it 30 some years later and started digging...

It could have been just as the originally 3 found it long before the "fishmongers" were there and they just never saw it.. If they were fisherman, I would assume they spent most of their time by the water and not walking every inch of the island. So it could have been there all along...

 

[DaveVanP]

BUT... There only 1 more shaft away from the money pit now. Than we will have treasure...

View attachment 1903108

You will feel pretty foolish when next episode they show this off...

Seeing as how the show is filmed in the spring, summer and fall of last year, if any treasure, or ANYTHING of ANY significance was found to verify that a treasure was indeed present, just not recovered - it would have been in the news. I don't care how "tight" their security was. Hell, Stalin found out about the Manhattan Project, and the Bomb before Truman did.

 

[ECS]

I'm just trying to get across that stuff that is important and would be known ...

If that hole or depression was that important during the 1753 Oak Island ownership by Gifford and Smith, by your own words it "would be known", but it was not known until the story of the three which is the basis of the entire tale.

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

Its been proven that there was never an money pit hole that was explored by the mcginnis brothers. They made up the story and their relatives continue to promote the hoax today...

 

[n2mini]

If that hole or depression was that important during the 1753 Oak Island ownership by Gifford and Smith, by your own words it "would be known", but it was not known until the story of the three which is the basis of the entire tale.

it wasn't important till someone started digging it. and or re-digging it...

 

[n2mini]

Its been proven that there was never an money pit hole that was explored by the mcginnis brothers. They made up the story and their relatives continue to promote the hoax today...

I have not seen anywhere that proves what your saying is a fact. that is what you and some others believe which is fine, heck you might be correct but we do not know that at this point and probably never will as there is no way to prove it now... If you/ya'll don't want to believe the family decendents and the articles as they are written that is fine. No different them some do not believe the Sinclair paper work as being all knowing, since it has been shown they are not..

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

Countless excavations of the entire area have been ongoing for 200 years........Yet not ONE has found any evidence that a money pit ever existed.

 

[n2mini]

Kinda hard to make up the whole 90' stone story without there even being a hole.... Where these people just standing around everyday telling jokes to each other and then then one of them thought it would be funny to add in the stone story at 90' just for $#@! & giggles... they then packed up and left without ever digging anything?? that is a heck of a way to spend a summer and lets hope it was summer time as it get awful cold up there to just be standing around not doing anything and not be getting paid anything or atleast not much...

 

[ECS]

I have no idea as I was not there.
I'm guessing it wasn't actually a hole at that point as it had been filled in. BUT who knows ...

Yes, you were not there in 1753 when Gifford and Smith, New York Fishmonger Merchants owned Oak Island, which one claimed was so small that there was no need to create a stone road in the swamp that could easily been walked around.
You were not there in 1762 when under the SHOREHAM GRANT ACT, Surveyor General of Nova Scotia, Charles Morris, surveyed and subdivided Oak Island into 32 four acre lots.
In both cases, the swamp was there, but there was NO mention of an unusual depression in the ground or hole.
In 1795, Daniel McGinnis claims to have found a depression in the ground on Lot 18, and assumes that there must be buried pirate treasure there, and the story grows.
As you mentioned, you were NOT THERE, so your entire knowledge of this hole comes from passed down hearsay from various writers and authors of magazine articles, books, and endless speculation posted on websites, ALL based on hearsay.
Yes, stories are made up everyday, and there are myriads about Oak Island.

So with your endless harassing posts as acting TN thread holeologist concerning "if" there was an original hole directed to several members, you, my friend n2mini, don't actually know the answer to:
What came first, the hole or the story about the hole?

 

[n2mini]

If you/ya'll so whole heartily believe that then why the heck are you on here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and why do you care if some of us believe some of the story.. It is a known fact that more then a few companies have been to OI to dig. Maybe even 1 before the original 3 started their dig. These are the people that would have way better knowledge of what did or did not happen on OI and yet they were there digging... Even if some how the original 3 never did dig hole there were other people/companies that did... and they would not have come there if they were not pretty sure of what was real about the story...

I'm not harrassing anyone. Someone made a comment of it being a proven fact the brothers never dug a hole and that is not a fact. Is all I said. Even said it might be true we have no way to know now!!! I even said if that is what you want to believe that is fine.

I don't care what you believe just don't claim it as fact when it's not...

 

[n2mini]

Also I used to work for a survey crew years ago and just because you survey some land does not mean you know every square foot of the place. Your looking for the corners of each lot and or put in the corners of each lot. That is all you care about. Your not walking a gridded off path to see every foot of land.. You don't need to. Just the extremes is all you need to do your job...

 

[ECS]

Kinda hard to make up the whole 90' stone story without there even being a hole...

The 90 foot stone was claimed to have been found in 1804, 90 feet below ground with carved letters on its face.
Said to have been given to a bookseller in Halifax.
Who retrieved this stone from a 90 foot hole that was dug by whom?
Where is this stone today, and why are there NO photographs of this stone?
Very easy to make up a story that people will believe, my friend n2mini, it seems you believe the stone existed based only on what you have read.