Oak Island Factual (proven/documented) Information

[Singlestack Wonder]

No treasure will be found either.

For none was buried there... and even if there was one... its long gone.

The existence of a "pit" would in itself indicate that whatever was once there ... be it treasure or otherwise... is and was then upon its first discovery... loooong gone.

No treasure or anything else that has been buried was found simply by the indication of an existing "pit"...

Holes / pits are left by those who have REMOVED something... NOT by those hiding something. heh

To me this makes more than perfect COMMON sense.

This is not just a "theory"...

This is factual and first hand... BEINGS... I have been digging holes since I could crawl. heh

Enough to know that a simple divot in the ground means someone before me already dug it.

The discovery of a road(s).. that IMO was buried after its use is definitely indicative of a need to someone for something... that was later obviously hidden by covering... or just a base of rock under fill to add stability for heavy equipment in the early days of treasure hunters.

After all... it would be hard to get any large / massive equipment to any location on that island without building stable "paths / "roads".

The simple fact that a "hole" / "pit" was what was originally found is an obvious clear sign of one of two things.

1. Treasure was removed.

2. There was no treasure and was a structure intended for something else completely.

But a “money pit” has never been found. The only holes or pits “discovered” are the holes dug by previous searchers.

There was never a money pit with a vast treasure on hoax island, period.

 

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[Singlestack Wonder]

Gidday Amigo

I do not live in planet America I live on planet earth. I do not have American centrist view on the world nor any other country. I have lived and worked in many countries I am just after facts not looking to reinforce any cultural narratives or beliefs. Having no agenda to rewrite history to suit my cultural beliefs, because in essence I am a stateless person my flag is a flag of convenience. I am open to any hypothesis providing there is compelling case supported by facts.

Being open minded enough to take the time to try to verify some your claims.Yet your mish mass of claims are just not supported by verified known "facts"

Thus amigo the alleged Arthurian presence in America or alleged connection to Oak island is fatally flawed.


The Welsh monk Nennius (9th century CE) in his History of Britain is the first to mention Arthur by name.

Here the very words written of Arthur below taken from...

Historia Brittonum a purported history of the indigenous British (Brittonic) people that was written around 828 and survives in numerous recensions that date from after the 11th century

Then it was, that the magnanimous Arthur, with all the kings and military force of Britain, fought against the Saxons. And though there were many more noble than himself, yet he was twelve times chosen their commander, and was as often conqueror.

The first battle in which he was engaged, was at the mouth of the river Gleni. The second, third, fourth, and fifth, were on another river, by the Britons called Duglas, in the region Linuis. The sixth, on the river Bassas. The seventh in the wood Celidon, which the Britons call Cat Coit Celidon.

The eighth was near Gurnion castle,where Arthur bore the image of the Holy Virgin, mother of God, upon his shoulders, and through the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the holy Mary, put the Saxons to flight, and pursued them the whole day with great slaughter.

The ninth was at the City of Legion, which is called Cair Lion. The tenth was on the banks of the river Trat Treuroit. The eleventh was on the mountain Breguoin, which we call Cat Bregion.

The twelfth was a most severe contest, when Arthur penetrated to the hill of Badon. In this engagement, nine hundred and forty fell by his hand alone, no one but the Lord affording him assistance. In all these engagements the Britons were successful. For no strength can avail against the will of the Almighty.

That is the only mention of him in that book. Not quite fanciful legend we hear to day knights of round table etc....

We can go to the National library of Wales in Aberystwyth there is books that can be found below



The Book of Aneirin (Welsh: Llyfr Aneirin) is a late 13th century Welsh manuscript containing Old and Middle Welsh poetry attributed to the late 6th century Northern Brythonic poet, Aneirin, who is believed to have lived in present-day Scotland. The manuscript is kept at the National Library of Wales, Aberystwyth

The Black Book of Carmarthen, so called because of the colour of its binding and its connection with the Priory of St John the Evangelist and Teulyddog, Carmarthen, is now thought by modern scholars to be the work of a single scribe writing at different periods of his life before and about the year 1250. It is believed to be the earliest surviving complete manuscript written in the Welsh language. It was designated one of the 'Four Ancient Books of Wales' by William Forbes Skene (1809-92), although he believed it to have been written much earlier in the twelfth century. This book has a brief mention of Arthur in Poem.

The White Book of Rhydderch (Welsh: Llyfr Gwyn Rhydderch, National Library of Wales, Peniarth MS 4-5) is one of the most notable and celebrated surviving manuscripts in Welsh. Mostly written in southwest Wales in the middle of the 14th century (c. 1350) it is the earliest collection of Welsh prose texts. This book has a brief mention of Arthur in Poem. What was one manuscript was divided into two in the medieval period and has been bound as two separate volumes,
known as Peniarth MS 4 and Peniarth MS 5. Peniarth MS 4 contains the most important material:
medieval Welsh tales now collectively known as the Mabinogion

The History of Kings text is that of Geoffrey of Monmouth’s highly influential Historia Regum Britanniae (‘History of the Kings of Britain’), translated into Welsh as ‘Brut y Brenhinedd’ (‘History of the Kings’) . The Latin Historia,
written c. 1135, traced the descent of the Britons back to Brutus, the eponymous founder of Britain, who settled on the island with his followers after the fall of Troy. It provided the first full biographical account of king Arthur, and was extremely popular and influential in Wales. The Welsh text appeared in the 13th century, and survives in over 60 manuscripts. This copy is associated with, and perhaps partially derived from, Peniarth 21, which dates from the early 14th century. It is now considered to have no value as history. As many account are seen as inaccurate.

So from these and others very some what brief mentions of Arthur we have of this legendary folk figure.


So it has been easy to manipulate such figure into anyone's historical narrative?

Crow

Great post Crow! Please keep the factual history lessons coming!

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

Read # 3. Members: Ease up on Franklin, he is a member who I trust and believe. Under his name is: Professal Treasure Hunter. I know nothing about this book in question. I do believe the story starting with the boys founding the rope on a tree. For all yours nonbelievers, explaining about the tunnels under the grounds if there was no buried treasures. Simple, the pirates or those who dug them and buried treasure dug the tunnels so the water flood out the way to get to the treasures. Many smart people dug on the island including a formal president. A mad treasure hunter just moved too much dirt around so nobody else can locate the pit. No treasures will be found because no treasure hunters can solve the water problems. I am a proud Connecticut Yankee who only search my great interest state./ Good hunting and good luck.

Many have claimed to be, “professional treasure hunters”. These self titled professionals claim to have made many significant finds, some with the potential to change history......Yet when asked to show their finds, an exponential number of excuses are presented and in the end, it was nothing more than an effort to repeat the laginas success at obtaining a fictional drama cable tv show....

 

[Crow]

Great post Crow! Please keep the factual history lessons coming!

Gidday Singlelestack

I do have some thing to thank Franklin for as when I was searched through the archives of University of Wales looking for references to Arthur. I came across a book of 15th century astronomy. In the book has rotating almanac of position of sun and moon and position of zodiac constellations according month.

It appears its based on the then idea the sun rotated around the earth.

Galileo's observations strengthened his belief in Copernicus' theory that Earth and all other planets revolve around the Sun. Most people in Galileo's time believed that the Earth was the center of the universe and that the Sun and planets revolved around it. ... Galileo was sentenced to life imprisonment in 1633.

However a cool find to see...........Dated 1450



Even cooler to think they had thought of rotating paper almanac in 1450?

Crow

 

[Crow]

Here is a little more Amigos

The earliest written account of King Arthur as a historical figure is the Historia Brittonum (History of the Britons), a history of the British people. The history was assembled from a variety of sources in 829 or 830, by a cleric sometimes known as Nennius, probably under the patronage of the king of Gwynedd (r. 825–844). There is a version in middle Welsh and the text below is a Latin version.


In the text, Arthur is variously described as a war lord (dux bellorum), as a Christian soldier who carries either an image of the virgin or Christ’s cross, and as a legendary figure associated with miraculous events. For example, the account relates that a stone in Wales that bears the footprint of Arthur’s dog always returns to the same place if moved. The oldest surviving copy of this history is found in a miscellany of late antique and early medieval texts in Latin (now British Library, Harley MS 3859), including works on astronomy (accompanied by diagrams), military strategy, architecture and theology.



There are other documents I have found.

Crow

 

[franklin]

You know, Franklin, I am beginning to suspect you are more interested in castigating us for our ignorance than leading us to enlightenment. Why would you not want to let us know the author and title of such an important book? Come on, Franklin, tell us all about the book.

I have tons of research in my computer and I finally found what you were asking about. It was in a Youtube by the late Jim Michaels, past President of the Kentucky Historical Society. Jim past away about three years ago. Here is the Youtube video. The books are about 39 minutes into the video. You will have to listen to it several times and take different snapshots to see what it is talking about.

 

[franklin]

Here is the Eulogy of Madoc son of Uther which places Madoc in the Sixth Century instead of the Twelfth Century.
Erof is this country today, America. The first part is an old translation that was 10 t 20 percent wrong. The second half is the translation by Alan Wilson and Baram Blackett. Welsh and the Coelbren has several different words for the same symbols.

 

[Crow]

Gidday Amigos

William of Malmesbury Four main variants of William’s text have been identified, and one version contains some additions that are believed to have been made by the author himself.

Two manuscripts copied between 1175 and 1225, both from important English monastic libraries, contain these additions. One, now in the British Library, was in the cathedral priory of St Andrew in Rochester in the late 12th or early 13th century and was probably copied there (British Library, Harley MS 261). It contains another historical work by William of Malmesbury, the Gesta pontificum Anglorum (Deeds of the English Bishops). The name, ‘Alexander Precentor’ is written on the first page of the Gesta next to the ownership inscription of Rochester priory. A precentor was a monk who usually fulfilled the duties of choir master, archivist and librarian, taking care of the community’s books which he kept in chests.



Crow

 

[Smithbrown]

Franklin- thank you for that. Am I correct in assuming you have not read the book, only seen it on YouTube? it is taking on a lot in trust.

 

[Crow]

Franklin- thank you for that. Am I correct in assuming you have not read the book, only seen it on YouTube? it is taking on a lot in trust.

First Book: Richard Hakluyt 1553 – 23 November 1616) was an English writer. He is known for promoting the English colonisation of North America through his works, notably Divers Voyages Touching the Discoverie of America (1582) and The Principall Navigations, Voiages, Traffiques and Discoueries of the English Nation (1589–1600).



2nd Book David Powel expanded Llwyd's work in its scope and detail, with the help of Lord Burghley providing access to some further documents, making his own contributions clear by typographical distinctions. The resulting

publication in 1584,, now called Wales, was the first printed history of Wales. The work remained an important source for medieval Welsh history for several centuries thereafter. It also popularised the legend that Prince Madoc had discovered America in about 1170, a tale used to justify English encroachments on the territory of Spanish America (for example in Hakluyt's Discourse on Western Planting)




Here the catch both of their alleged sources given by David Powel and Richard Hakluyt have I am aware have not been verified. Both had vested interest in placing an earlier claim of discovery before the Spanish by the Welsh by the virtue of now being part of the English crown to give England Justification to claim North America from the Spanish.

Crow

 

[ECS]

I have tons of research in my computer and I finally found what you were asking about...
View attachment 1915832
View attachment 1915833
View attachment 1915834
View attachment 1915835

From which book by Samuel Rush Meyrick is this from?
Also, as your claim of translating some Coelbren that even Alan Wilson was unable to do, you do know what this describes?
*NOTE* "This poem is suppose to have been written..."

 

[ECS]

I have tons of research in my computer and I finally found what you were asking about.
It was in a Youtube by the late Jim Michaels, past President of the Kentucky Historical Society.
Jim past away about three years ago. Here is the Youtube video.
The books are about 39 minutes into the video. You will have to listen to it several times and take different snapshots to see what it is talking about.



[//QUOTE]
After watching the video, read the real history on how, why, and by whom created the story of the Madoc voyage that NEVER happened.
https://historymash.com/2020/09/13/madoc-and-the-welsh-indians-origins/

Once again, real documented history proves pseudo fabricated fantasy history nonsense wrong.

 

[franklin]

The Voyage did happen but not in the time frame of the story that was told during the 16th and 17th Century. The real Madoc was King Arthur's brother and the story happened during the 6th Century over 500 years earlier than first thought.

 

[ECS]

The Voyage did happen but not in the time frame of the story that was told during the 16th and 17th Century. The real Madoc was King Arthur's brother and the story happened during the 6th Century over 500 years earlier than first thought.

Where is the documented 6th contemporary evidence of this voyage and in what language?

 

[Crow]

From which book by Samuel Rush Meyrick is this from?
Also, as your claim of translating some Coelbren that even Alan Wilson was unable to do, you do know what this describes?
*NOTE* "This poem is suppose to have been written..."

Gidday ECS

Samuel Rush Meyrick The History and Antiquities of the County of Cardigan (1810)

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=zLZCAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA238-IA1&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=true


Crow

 

[Crow]

In regards to the earliest known reference to Prince Madoc?

The earliest certain reference to a seafaring Madoc or Madog appears in a cywydd by the Welsh poet Maredudd ap Rhys (fl. 1450—83) of Powys, which mentions a Madog who is a son or descendant of Owain Gwynedd and who voyaged to the sea.

Maredudd ap Rhys (fl. 1450—1485), also spelt Meredudd ap Rhys, was a Welsh language poet and priest from Powys. He was born in gentry, having pedigree blood, as discovered from the Peniarth Manuscripts.

The "Madoc story" legend evidently evolved out of a medieval tradition about a Welsh hero's sea voyage, to which only allusions survive. However, it attained its greatest prominence during the Elizabethan era, when English and Welsh writers wrote of the claim that Madoc had come to the Americas as an assertion of prior discovery, and hence legal possession, of North America by the Kingdom of England.

I for one would be very interested to see a document dating back to 6 century telling the story?

Crow

 

[Crow]

The poem by Maredudd ap Rhys (c 1430-80), vicar of Rhiwabon (Ruabon), which includes the lines

Madog wych, mwyedig wedd,
Iawn genau Owain Gwynedd,
Ni fynnai dir, flenaid oedd,
Na da mawr ond y moroedd

(‘Brave Madoc, great of frame, True offspring of Owain Gwynedd, Had no land, it was his soul, Nor great goods but the seas’).

This is the earliest certain reference to Madoc ap Owain Gwynedd outside the genealogy and it seems to indicate that he was famed as a sailor, although as the poem was written as a thank you to Ifan ap Tudur of Berian for the gift of a fishing net, it suggests that this fame was more to do with fishing than with exploration.

This is borne out by the succeeding lines, which say ‘I am Madoc to my age, and to his passion for the seas have I been accustomed’ (I do not have the Welsh version of these lines).

Crow

 

[ECS]

The Voyage did happen but not in the time frame of the story that was told during the 16th and 17th Century.
The real Madoc was King Arthur's brother and the story happened during the 6th Century over 500 years earlier than first thought.

"For Welsh men and women, however, the story of Madoc's discovery of America remains special, even if, in our heart of hearts, we know that it is not true"- Phil Caradice October 11, 2010, Welsh writer, poet and BBC Broadcaster.
As requested by Crow, please show us the 6th century manuscript that related this voyage of Madoc's voyage to America.
Or is it another mislabeled item by Wilson & Blackett in support of their pseudo history claims of Arthur and Welsh in America.

 

[Crow]

I would love to see that prince Madoc story was true and even king Arthur connection but cannot see any evidence.

For example there is no mention of a prince Madoc in a document pertaining to the history of Welsh princes. Peniarth Ms. 20, folio 260v. (c.1330). This manuscript is the earliest copy of Brut y Tywysogion, a Welsh translation of a lost Latin work, the Cronica Principium Wallie


"Brut y Tywysogion' (The Chronicle of the Princes) is a translation of a lost Latin work, the Cronica Principium Wallie. The Cronica, in turn, was based on the annales that were kept by churches and monasteries.



Yet the first mention of Prince Madoc is in The poem by Maredudd ap Rhys (c 1430-80). The poem clearly states
Brave Madoc, great of frame, True offspring of Owain Gwynedd


Altogether, the prolific Owain Gwynedd is said to have had the following children from two wives and at least four mistresses:

• Rhun ab Owain Gwynedd (illegitimate in Catholic custom, but legitimate successor in Welsh law)
• Hywel ab Owain Gwynedd (illegitimate in Catholic custom, but legitimate successor in Welsh law)
• Iorwerth ab Owain Gwynedd (the "flat nose", also called Edward in some sources, from first wife Gwladys (Gladys) ferch Llywarch)
• Maelgwn ab Owain Gwynedd,(from first wife Gwladys (Gladys) ferch Llywarch) Lord of Môn (1169–1173)
• Gwenllian ferch Owain Gwynedd
• Dafydd ab Owain Gwynedd (from second wife Cristina (Christina) ferch Gronw)
• Rhodri ab Owain Gwynedd, Lord of Môn (1175–1193) (from second wife Cristina (Christina) ferch Gronw)
• Angharad ferch Owain Gwynedd
• Margaret ferch Owain Gwynedd
• Iefan ab Owain Gwynedd
• Cynan ab Owain Gwynedd, Lord of Meirionnydd (illegitimate)
• Rhirid ab Owain Gwynedd (illegitimate)
• Madoc ab Owain Gwynedd (illegitimate) (speculative/legendary)
• Cynwrig ab Owain Gwynedd (illegitimate)
• Gwenllian II ferch Owain Gwynedd (also shared the same name with a sister)
• Einion ab Owain Gwynedd (illegitimate)
• Iago ab Owain Gwynedd (illegitimate)
• Ffilip ab Owain Gwynedd (illegitimate)
• Cadell ab Owain Gwynedd (illegitimate)
• Rotpert ab Owain Gwynedd (illegitimate)
• Idwal ab Owain Gwynedd (illegitimate)
• Other daughters

So according to this alleged 6th century document prince Madoc was actually a brother of Arthur? I would love to see that document.

Crow

 

[ECS]

...
[/I]Yet the first mention of Prince Madoc is in The poem by Maredudd ap Rhys (c 1430-80).
The poem clearly states
Brave Madoc, great of frame, True offspring of Owain Gwynedd...
So according to this alleged 6th century document prince Madoc was actually a brother of Arthur?
I would love to see that document.

This alleged 6th century document, like the Stoke Dry Church wall painting of St Edmund the Martyr misidentified on purpose by Wilson & Blackett as King Arthur being killed by Native Americans in support of their alternative history, is probably another misidentified on purpose item appearing in one of their several King Arthur books.