Oak Island: Was something even there.

[Smithbrown]

Loki, you are confusing the North Atlantic world of 1000 with the world 300 years later. The settlements on the North American mainland never survived and there is certainly no evidence they were being visited regularly by 1300. The settlements on Greenland began to reduce and even contact between Iceland and the rest of the Scandinavian world was less than it had been in 1000.
What do you mean by "Scottish Norse"? The Templar estates were concentrated in the Lowlands and North East Scotland, neither of which would b described as "Norse".

 

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[Raparee]

Whoever wrote that has not read the report correctly. The material came from the Oak Island museum.
Cheers, Loki

Woods Hole received two samples of coconut fibre (a ridiculously small sample size, IMO, but whatever). One sample came from Dan Blankenship and as dated to 1230 AD +/- 35 years. The second came from just below the low tide level at Smiths Cove and was dated to 856AD +/- 30 years. This second sample was found by Dan Henskee. Henskee took the team from WH directly to this spot where he knew he would find a sample for testing. No excavation took place.

So I guess we were both right. One sample came from a "museum" (supplied by Blankenship), and the other from the beach.

It's interesting to note, too, that they were unable to confirm that the samples provided were even coconut. Samples were sent to two different experts, and neither were able to positively confirm that they were coconut, let alone a variety of coconut that grows exclusively in the Indian Ocean.

Source: http://www.oakislandcompendium.ca/u...ole_draft_report_on_oak_island_april_1996.pdf

 

[Roadhse2]

I said with "no documentation except as to age". so of course they had samples...

But you have no other docs relating to the Templars having made this voyage at all...speculation yes...and one that would probably be furthered along much easier if you just left out the coir all together as some kind of 'proof'

 

[lokiblossom]

Loki, you are confusing the North Atlantic world of 1000 with the world 300 years later. The settlements on the North American mainland never survived and there is certainly no evidence they were being visited regularly by 1300. The settlements on Greenland began to reduce and even contact between Iceland and the rest of the Scandinavian world was less than it had been in 1000.
What do you mean by "Scottish Norse"? The Templar estates were concentrated in the Lowlands and North East Scotland, neither of which would b described as "Norse".

No I'm not confusing them. Of course were not sure if there were any later settlements on the North American mainland, but that being said I would think that all the Norse on Greenland would have known about the one that we know about. And it is known that there were over 100 Templar houses all over Scotland not just where they were concentrated, which according to DNA evidence is quite a bit of Norse descent (Don't remember how much, I'll have to look that back up).
But, the point is that its a simple map to follow you have to admit, and I don't see how anybody could think the Templars and Norse didn't interact in Scotland.
quite a bit of piling on here, but I don't mean to sound snippy.
Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

Woods Hole received two samples of coconut fibre (a ridiculously small sample size, IMO, but whatever). One sample came from Dan Blankenship and as dated to 1230 AD +/- 35 years. The second came from just below the low tide level at Smiths Cove and was dated to 856AD +/- 30 years. This second sample was found by Dan Henskee. Henskee took the team from WH directly to this spot where he knew he would find a sample for testing. No excavation took place.

So I guess we were both right. One sample came from a "museum" (supplied by Blankenship), and the other from the beach.

It's interesting to note, too, that they were unable to confirm that the samples provided were even coconut. Samples were sent to two different experts, and neither were able to positively confirm that they were coconut, let alone a variety of coconut that grows exclusively in the Indian Ocean.

Source: http://www.oakislandcompendium.ca/u...ole_draft_report_on_oak_island_april_1996.pdf

Ok, but I can provide three examples where the fibre was positively identified as coconut, one was the Smithsonian, another was The Research council of Canada in 1970 and Woods Hole in their letter to the Oak Island investors called it coconut fiber, writing about the sample "coconut fibre is easy to date..."
Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

I said with "no documentation except as to age". so of course they had samples...

But you have no other docs relating to the Templars having made this voyage at all...speculation yes...and one that would probably be furthered along much easier if you just left out the coir all together as some kind of 'proof'

Not at all! The coconut coir confirms the dating. Not speculation, a premise, there is a difference.
Cheers, Loki

 

[Roadhse2]

You also have said..."they visited there"(OI) implying they were still not at the end of the voyage..

Your supposition that I will not believe it possible they were in the area at whatever point in time and that I 'make up stuff', is also wrong. The things I have stated are facts and easily documented or only common sense in regard to port towns and not wasting anything, especially something you could resell at low cost to yourself as a business...go to Alaska or Hawaii and see how much you will waste when everything has to be shipped in at great cost for example.

I follow along with your Charing Cross, New Ross theories, waiting on some verifiable proof to be found, which I think is possible...So to say I won't believe is wrong...I find them plausible but needing proof.(ley lines and vortex's won't do it)

The coir argument is what I find wrong...especially when you can give no reason for it to be there in the first place

 

[lokiblossom]

I said with "no documentation except as to age". so of course they had samples...

But you have no other docs relating to the Templars having made this voyage at all...speculation yes...and one that would probably be furthered along much easier if you just left out the coir all together as some kind of 'proof'

Lets see some documentation for your 300 year old coir in every port waiting for somebody to buy it.

 

[lokiblossom]

You also have said..."they visited there"(OI) implying they were still not at the end of the voyage..

Your supposition that I will not believe it possible they were in the area at whatever point in time and that I 'make up stuff', is also wrong. The things I have stated are facts and easily documented or only common sense in regard to port towns and not wasting anything, especially something you could resell at low cost to yourself as a business...go to Alaska or Hawaii and see how much you will waste when everything has to be shipped in at great cost for example.

I follow along with your Charing Cross, New Ross theories, waiting on some verifiable proof to be found, which I think is possible...So to say I won't believe is wrong...I find them plausible but needing proof.

The coir argument is what I find wrong...especially when you can give no reason for it to be there in the first place

It was there because thats where they unloaded and moved there stuff ashore then up to Charing Cross. You see, they didn't need packing anymore after that. I am still waiting for documentation of 300 year old coir in every port waiting for someone to buy it.
Cheers, Loki

 

[Roadhse2]

So....why didn't they just unload on the mainland, instead of moving everything to the mainland after being unloaded on OI?

Even if no deep harbor, they surely would have rowed skiffs the extra few hundred feet rather than unload everything on OI and then put it back on a skiff to make mainland...

Doesn't make sense to me...

 

[Roadhse2]

You know there will be no documentation for the 300 yo coir in every port...but anyone with any common sense knows you do not toss out an item that, as you have said, has to come from a far off port, and that you can resell in your business...any item that would make a profit was kept, and one used by nearly every ship that stopped by, even more so.

So yes, I can't document it, but I can speculate on it with more surety than a bunch of Templars stopping by Oi while meaning to go elsewhere...

 

[Raparee]

It was there because thats where they unloaded and moved there stuff ashore then up to Charing Cross.
Cheers, Loki

Why? Why New Ross (not Charing Cross. It was never Charing Cross)? If they are going to unload their ships at Oak Island, then ferry the cargo across to the mainland (unload the ships only to reload them?), abandon the ships, then hike for at least two days through unfamiliar territory over rough terrain to a random spot at what is now New Ross. Why?

 

[lokiblossom]

So....why didn't they just unload on the mainland, instead of moving everything to the mainland after being unloaded on OI?

Even if no deep harbor, they surely would have rowed skiffs the extra few hundred feet rather than unload everything on OI and then put it back on a skiff to make mainland...

Doesn't make sense to me...

According to you somebody did, right?
Cheers, Loki

 

[Bud Aurum]

It was there because thats where they unloaded and moved there stuff ashore then up to Charing Cross. You see, they didn't need packing anymore after that. I am still waiting for documentation of 300 year old coir in every port waiting for someone to buy it.
Cheers, Loki

Hi Loki,
Then possibly built "Nolan's Cross" as a navigational marker and laid stones for the "equilateral triangle" to show where the went...

 

[lokiblossom]

Why? Why New Ross (not Charing Cross. It was never Charing Cross)? If they are going to unload their ships at Oak Island, then ferry the cargo across to the mainland (unload the ships only to reload them?), abandon the ships, then hike for at least two days through unfamiliar territory over rough terrain to a random spot at what is now New Ross. Why?

Yes it was Charing Cross and I can prove it! And because they were hiding, although I don't think they would abandon their ships which in my premise are no more than three. Certainly anybody in such a position wouldn't simply pull up to some island unload and hope they could find a homesite, it would have been well scouted wouldn't it?
Cheers, Loki

 

[Roadhse2]

"According to you somebody did, right?"

Ummm...No...I never said anyone unloaded anything on OI and moved it to the mainland...

The fishing station was ON Oak Island when the whole island was owned by a fishing company...Dennis King mentions some documentation to that, but I have not pursued it because common sense says if you buy an island and you own all the fishing rights in the area and have a fleet of fishing boats....you are going to use the island you bought as a base. Not someplace else.

 

[lokiblossom]

Hi Loki,
Then possibly built "Nolan's Cross" as a navigational marker and laid stones for the "equilateral triangle" to show where the went...

The stones of the triangle when discovered were deep into the ground, they had been there a long time. Yes they would show where they went and if you think that was stupid, how many have come to that conclusion. Also they could have been pulled at any time.
There is a lot of sarcasm here and I don't know if this is some or not as I have not conversed with you before.
Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

"According to you somebody did, right?"

Ummm...No...I never said anyone unloaded anything on OI and moved it to the mainland...

The fishing station was ON Oak Island when the whole island was owned by a fishing company...Dennis King mentions some documentation to that, but I have not pursued it because common sense says if you buy an island and you own all the fishing rights in the area and have a fleet of fishing boats....you are going to use the island you bought as a base. Not someplace else.

No but according to you someone unloaded coconut fibre on the Island.
Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

You know there will be no documentation for the 300 yo coir in every port...but anyone with any common sense knows you do not toss out an item that, as you have said, has to come from a far off port, and that you can resell in your business...any item that would make a profit was kept, and one used by nearly every ship that stopped by, even more so.

So yes, I can't document it, but I can speculate on it with more surety than a bunch of Templars stopping by Oi while meaning to go elsewhere...

IMHO, speculating that somebody would use smelly and rotten 300 year old coir as packing is simply ridiculous!
Cheers, Loki

 

[Smithbrown]

So Loki, you don't know where the Scottish properties of the Knights Templars were and you don't know where Norse Scotland was, yet you claim the "Templars in Scotland lived and worked among the Scottish Norse population" and they all went on to take a journey together no one has undertaken for 300 years.

Funny you accuse Roadhse2 of speculation; as far as I can see you are indulging in fantasy.