Opinions on this stone found with some of my Grandfathers stuff.

VERMONTPACKRAT · Nov 28, 2014

A few years ago I was helping my brother clean out the garage and barn of our Grandparents home. I found a box with a bunch of odds and ends as well as this stone.
The "edges" have been worked, or so it looks to me. You can see the scratches all of the way around. The stone is pretty smooth.
What do all of you think?

VPR

BosnMate · Nov 30, 2014

Just as a side note, in case anyone might be interested in the Indian side of the Nez Perce war, Yellow Wolf His Own Story is outstanding, and McWhorter does an excellent job of recording what Yellow Wolf had to say. Yellow Wolf told the story so that Indian children might know what happened. Regarding the sap I talked about above. Yellow Wolf felt a presence behind him, turned and there was a bear on it's back legs. He shot the bear point blank, using his 44 Henry rifle, the bear dropped down on all fours, and Yellow Wolf used the stone headed sap, bringing it down hard on the bears skull, and killed it.
Here is a link to the book on Amazon.
Amazon.com: yellow wolf his own story: Books

VERMONTPACKRAT · Nov 30, 2014

The Grim Reaper said:
Just what are you guys seeing that lead you to believe it's an artifact? I don't see any evidence of it being altered by man. No pecking or grinding on it anywhere.

I will say with 95% certainty that the rock that I have has been worked by someone not something natural like Mother nature. The scratches go 100% all the way around. and in slightly different angles. The larger surfaces of the stone have no scratches at all. I am about the most novice Indian Artifact finder in the world. This is possibly my first piece and it was found in a box....not the dirt.

Either way I will be keeping it and displaying it. Geofact or indian.

VPR

unclemac · Nov 30, 2014

not to be a kill-joy but shouldn't a pecking stone look like this?.....smooth from handling but beat up on the end from pecking?

RJ55 · Nov 30, 2014

A cowboy might have done that Indian in before he got to do any serious pecking.

yakker · Nov 30, 2014

BosnMate said:
OK, here's the one I found. It was totally out of place, all other rocks in the area were shale, this guy is basalt, heavy for it's size, and around the center it's really polished,
way more that would be done naturally, and each end is rough, like it was used for pecking something, but not really pounding. My first thought was for it to have been sewn into a leather wrap to be used as a sap, but that doesn't answer the polished portions, and it sure looks a lot like VermontPackRat's rock, only we are about 3000 miles apart.
View attachment 1086121Looks to be about the same size, and note the polish. The crossways scratches have the same patina as the polish.
View attachment 1086122The damage on this side was caused by the D-8 blade or a track running over it.
View attachment 1086123It's rough on the end, but not beat up.
View attachment 1086124And the same with this end. Probably just a pecking stone, but ??

I was actually thinking the same thing. Slip it into a leather sack and *WHAMMO*! And I also think I've seen axes and pestles that were smooooth like a baby's butt. Showing signs of pecking? Not really- but artifacts for sure. It's one thing to find a river cobble among river cobbles. It's another to find something completely out of context and as well shaped as that. A pecking stone might show wear at the working end, but I doubt corn or grain would show as wear-damage. I use a mortar and pestle all the time for food- not to make something out of rock. They're smooth. So... I can't see how it's out of the question that it was an artifact. Use? I don't know. But I can think if 2 things. Sap. Food grinder. JMHO HH! Yakker

VERMONTPACKRAT · Nov 30, 2014

Not that it should matter but the stone is in Orange County Vermont. I know nothing about Native American artifacts and to my knowlege not much of it has been found arround here. I talked to an old high school friend who now runs his parents dairy farm on the connecticut river. I asked him about walking the river bottom land after he plows and look arround for arrow heads. He told me to look anytime I want. In 60+ years of his family farming here, not one piece has been found by them. Not that they are looking for it either......

VPR

NCPeaches · Nov 30, 2014

VERMONTPACKRAT said:
Not that it should matter but the stone is in Orange County Vermont. I know nothing about Native American artifacts and to my knowlege not much of it has been found arround here. I talked to an old high school friend who now runs his parents dairy farm on the connecticut river. I asked him about walking the river bottom land after he plows and look arround for arrow heads. He told me to look anytime I want. In 60+ years of his family farming here, not one piece has been found by them. Not that they are looking for it either....

Just so you know...that you never know until you find something and that prolly didn't make sense. But I have lived in my home for 21 years and own 3.5 acres, have had garden plots all over it and never found an artifact nor even a big rock. Then one day decided to clean up the creek that is my property line and there is a Native American pottery shard. Now I've found well over 200 shards and about 10 different stone points/tools/knives. I've been told by an archaeologist that I have 3 time periods and my area has never been documented. So I say, of course, go for it and if there's a creek or stream or very small shallow river near then look there too. Good luck and HH!

BosnMate · Nov 30, 2014

Here are some pictures of the type club I have in mind. This is supposed to be an antique club, and a portion of the auction write-up is just below the picture.

This is a very beautiful early Sioux Indian war club. The oval stone is about 3" long by 2" high and 1 and 1/2" wide. The stone is heavy and held to the shaft by a strip of rawhide that is wrapped onto the wooden shaft by more rawhide that is covered in leather wraps. The wrapping extends 8" down the shaft. About mid-way between the stone and the end of the wraps is a decoration of 2 lightly spotted feathers, attached with a thick wrapping of thin rawhide string.
The wooden shaft is 18 and 1/2" long. The handle end of the club is also wrapped, first in rawhide and then over-wrapped (as fashioned at the top end) in tanned hide. There is a loop of leather that is attached to the end to facilitate either hanging the weapon or as a base for one more loop that would have been worn around the wrist to keep the weapon secured to the owner's person.
And here is another that's from a different tribe, Cheyenne I think.

Here's one that is also supposed to an antique also.

And this last one is more what I was thinking, and it's supposed to be Apache. In this one the stone is completely covered, and if I remember correctly that's what Yellow Wolf was talking about with the Nez Perce also.