PIPSICO...4th Hunt: Date: 24-27 October 2008 (Fri-Mon)

[LadyDigger]

Oh, I thought it was Mrs. Racoon....hmmm? I wonder what it was LOL...and NO, it will NOT be forgotton!!! :P

We really want to head to the Dillard's Wharf area, just to see what we can do about it...if safe, we know it's swamp land...but maybe, just maybe, there is something we can find. I did find some very OLD chain links, there were two of them linked together our second hunt up at Dillard's Wharf and we found some large nails, we are thinking nails for possibly the pier Ranger Dan thought they were neat looking! We know there is the possibility that Dillard's Wharf may be out of the question, but I want to give it a try.

They were suppose to flatten the road from Kiwanis to the James....I will find out tomorrow if they did or not. It was all lumpy from the Logger Trucks and one heck of a walk with those tall weeds. I think I will have Ron bring his WEED WACKER thingy....the old fashion one and he can walk in front of us (way in front with him swinging that wacker thing!!!) and clear the way for us!!!

I'll see if Ron's tank is full....and see if he will bring his diving gear to the hunt. I would really love to find out. I would love to dive, even inquired at the Lynnhaven Dive Center, but due to my heart condition....can't ...but I can watch from the sidelines and take pictures and shift through the sand/dirt/mud!!!!

If you want to bring something for Sat night dinner...we usually all bring a dish for a big meal on Sat night and discuss our finds and our plans for the next day....other than that, everyone pretty much fends for themselves, even though, the last two hunts, we all still share our breakfast vittles with each other!!! There will be plenty of coffee pots too and camp stoves and grills and what have you. I don't think there is much we don't have, someone will remember to bring something.

We will have some new folks with us again and some oldies too!

Sunday's, usually during the afternoon and into the evening, I start recording the finds....if not too tired on Sat night, I may start then, depending on all the artifacts, trash, coins, BS items, knives, etc found.....

Friday, once I get there...I'll check in with the Ranger...we will set up camp and most likely, with Ranger Dan's permission, go through Camp Lions for easier access to the James!!! I'll leave a note at the OA Shelter letting those who come after us ... of where we are at!

I'd save the Silver Mine till after the day hunt is done....that way you will be close to "home away from home" when you are ready to settle in for the night...that is what we did last hunt.

I hope we don't get sleet this time...rain would be nice days before though....to give us better signals!!!

So glad you will be coming for the whole time....see you there!!!
Annmarie

 

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[LadyDigger]

I took the 1937 and overlayed to the google one....I tried to match it up as best I could...but I think you get the idea.....

Study it...you will be tested!

 

[LadyDigger]

Ok...gonna' post a couple of pics...

First pic of the Dillards Wharf area.

Second pic of what I was told was the trash dump area. My question is....how come when we check out from our hunts, the trash bin was between the entrance of Camp Kiwanis and Camp Rotary? It was a big trash bin you see behind stores.

Old maps indicate William Dillard's home was near the road....and what is that blotch in the middle of the land? I think this deserves to drive to.....I'll ask Ranger Dan today...heading up to help find his wife's ring. If this is where William Dillard homesteaded....based on old maps....this may be something to look into...what do you think?

There more hunts we do...the more areas of interest start popping up....this is so exciting!!!

I may not be able to do everything I want to do today, due to time limitations, but when up there next weekend for the 50th anniversary...I WILL be scouting about to see what some of these areas are in question. I'll take pics and post...so you can see prior to our hunt.

I'll try to get some shots of the recommended area BSA said we should detect as well....

See ya'll soon...
Annmarie

 

[LadyDigger]

I want to say THANK YOU to Anthony and his wife and to Eric, for coming out today to help find Mrs. "Ranger Dan's" wedding ring...it was found!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YAY!!!!!!!!! (Pics included below). Mr. and Mrs. Ranger Dan have been married 41 years!!!!

Also, we took a walk on the James. The pics below the ring are of the land below where the Arch. Digs are going on. It appears since the last time I was there, that some of the landslide has been washed away recently....

Forgot to mention....the road from Camp Kiwanis to Dillard's Wharf...is OPEN!!! Ranger Dan said a young man came to do his service project and made a clear path ALL the way to Dillard's Wharf...can't wait to use it in a couple of weeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can also see how high the sea shells go up the side.....

See ya'll in a couple of weeks.............
Annmarie
PS: I am pooped...going nite nite...LOL!

 

[Kiros32]

Nice job guys

 

[Kiros32]

HOLY CRAP I AM EXCITED ABOUT THIS ONE!!!!! TWO MORE WEEKS!!!!!

 

[LadyDigger]

HOLY CRAP I AM EXCITED ABOUT THIS ONE!!!!! TWO MORE WEEKS!!!!!

You and me both!!! I have some good vibes about this hunt. It seems as see hunt comes and go, we learn more about the land and what areas we should concentrate on...etc!

Ron, the boys and I leave tomorrow evening for Pipsico's 50th Anniversary. Out of 14 boys, only 5 (including my two) are coming, the Scout Ldr and Ron (asst Scout Ldr) and me...of course! I wouldn't miss this!

I can't wait to get back behind Ranger Dan's house and see about getting some photos of that area. I'll post pics (in a new thread) about this weekend, regarding the 50th)...anything relating to our hunt will be posted here. (i.e., pics of the recommended area by BSA Office).

See all of you very soon!!!!
Annmarie

 

[TheSleeper]

Ann since you are going up there tomarrow ask ranger dan when the boyscouts built that pier, reason i am asking is i have a topo map from 1940 showing both piers.
I thought ranger dan said it was built like 20-30 years ago but this map shows it almost 70 years ago, also a couple maps i have show dillards house next to the road not back near the water also there was a path that went straight south from dillards home shown on an 1864 map.
Also another lil tid bit there may have been a post office at the wharf but it is not recorded on any of the post office records which go back to the late 1700`s.
There are references to dillards wharf in official civil war correspondence`s, but no detail.
According to the 1864 map it only shows 2 residences next to the cliffs, Floods Lodge and Mt. Pleasant all the rest of the homes were directly next to the road.

 

[Narthoniel]

If there is a pier there 70+ years old, I would love to take the excal out along it and see what lies beneath.

 

[LadyDigger]

If there is a pier there 70+ years old, I would love to take the excal out along it and see what lies beneath.

Yep, Dillards Wharf..you can see the pier relics when the tide is out!

Ann since you are going up there tomarrow ask ranger dan when the boyscouts built that pier, reason i am asking is i have a topo map from 1940 showing both piers.
I thought ranger dan said it was built like 20-30 years ago but this map shows it almost 70 years ago, also a couple maps i have show dillards house next to the road not back near the water also there was a path that went straight south from dillards home shown on an 1864 map.
Also another lil tid bit there may have been a post office at the wharf but it is not recorded on any of the post office records which go back to the late 1700`s.
There are references to dillards wharf in official civil war correspondence`s, but no detail.
According to the 1864 map it only shows 2 residences next to the cliffs, Floods Lodge and Mt. Pleasant all the rest of the homes were directly next to the road.

Ranger Dan won't be there today ....he's on vacation with his wife.

The Boy Scouts built a pier some years back, which I believe a storm took out and then you have Dillard's Wharf, which is shown on early maps around the 1860's and you can see the relics of it when the tide goes out. I don't know about a third pier, which would be the one on your 1940 map...as BSA did not buy the land until 1958. Can you bring that map with you when you come up camping? I'd like to see it. Matt found a 1937 map, but does not show any piers. It was an aerial photo.

Erasums Carter's home was in Camp Kiwanis and we know, based on the digs, that the Ol' Manor house was on the banks of the James. After the War of 1812, many of the homes were moved from the banks to inland locations.

An interesting piece of history...I found out, as for the Ol' Manor House...the front doors (front of the house) faced the river, as many travelled by boat...

A post office, general store where to exist on Pipsico, but those where to have been closer to the road, from what Ranger Dan told us. Dillards Wharf was to have had a brother, stores, and other buildings. This was along the shores of the James for those ships that came through. And ship's did...as I find some articles pertaining to shipping....that's about all I could find (until I can get access to the courthouse..our recent trip last Sunday showed the courthouse STILL undergoing rennovation!)

As for Dillard's house, I saw that too....the house is closer to the road. I believe that may be in the location of where only the fires can be burned on Pipsico....I plan to check out that area.

See you all in a couple of weeks!!!
Annmarie

 

[Kiros32]

Ann since you are going up there tomarrow ask ranger dan when the boyscouts built that pier, reason i am asking is i have a topo map from 1940 showing both piers.
I thought ranger dan said it was built like 20-30 years ago but this map shows it almost 70 years ago, also a couple maps i have show dillards house next to the road not back near the water also there was a path that went straight south from dillards home shown on an 1864 map.
Also another lil tid bit there may have been a post office at the wharf but it is not recorded on any of the post office records which go back to the late 1700`s.
There are references to dillards wharf in official civil war correspondence`s, but no detail.
According to the 1864 map it only shows 2 residences next to the cliffs, Floods Lodge and Mt. Pleasant all the rest of the homes were directly next to the road.

Sleeper, is the newspaper article that mentions a post office at Dillards Wharf.

 

[LadyDigger]

Thanks Kiros....I forgot...I have that article too...duh me! LOL

I've been putting all my files in some kind of order of all the newspapers I have researched. Last night and this morning (have to stop soon to get ready for our 50th anniversary camping adventure).... I have been researching key words I found in the book Ex2User let me borrow: FOUR MILE TREE: A Jamestown Legacy by Ann Belsher Asher. So far, I got a few articles...but nothing I can pinpoint as what is known as Pipsico!

However, her book mentions on page 72 about Captain Argall (research says he is Samuel Argall and was a very mean man, kidnapped Pocahontas for ransom!!! Found some newspaper articles on him!)...anyways, her book states that he named FOUR MILE TREE based on this:

"....After clearing up the matter of his freedom, John (Flood) said, "If it's true that all colonists who came before 1616 are entitled to one hundred acres of land, I'd like to put in a claim."

"It's true, all right, but you've got to know which acres you want."

"I want a hundred acres on the south shore on the point nearest to Jamestown. The place where the giant cypress grows."

"Funny you should want to settle on the south shore." the secretary said, "Most people are scared of the Indians over there and want to stay on this side. Unfortunately, however, some others have already asked for the land with the Four Mile Tree."

"Four Mile Tree?" John said, "What's that?"

"The ancient cypress tree that you just described to me." the clerk said. "Captain Argall neamed it that earlier this year. While he was still governor, he laid out the limits of James City. It goes from Hog Island on the east to the great cypress tree four miles to the west. It's the boundary landmark so he named it the Four Mile Tree."

"How extraordinary," John said, "How disappointing. Who asked for that site?"

"There's a group of four that filed claims together. Five, if you count Pace's wife. All were friends in Middlesex before coming here. Richard Pace and Isobel are both ancient planters so they get two hundred acres between them. They plan to build a house and settle permanently over there, if they get the patent. Then there's Captain William Perry. He'll do the same. Third one is William Powell. He's Captain of the Jamestown militia, so he has to live here. He'll pay Pace and Perry to farm his land for him. The fourth is John Smith. He's Captain Powell's brother-in-law. I don't know his plans, but they're all in this together. It's a kind of partnership."

I want everyone to know, since this book was published in 2005, I figured the author was still living. I researched and FOUND HER!!! I spoke with her on Monday night (6 Oct 2008)...what a wonderful lady she is. I told her about Pipsico...she knew nothing of this land!

I told her of the dig and how they believe it was once the home of Col Henry Browne (son of William Browne, from whom Mrs. Asher is a descendent of!). What made me call her was the thing about the tree. We have a tree at Pipsico called the PIPSICO TREE. This tree is huge and pre-dates Columbus!!! She wanted to know what kind of tree and I went blank...I know now it's Cypress!!!

She was told this story that Four Mile Tree was named because it was 3 miles from Jamestown and 1 mile to the tree. I told her I was told because it was 4 miles from Jamestown. It could mean the same, as Pipsico (various names over time) and Four Mile Tree were once one piece of land only twice in history. The Pipsico Tree is located in the Camp Lions section of Pipsico, which covers quite a bit of land of Pipsico on the Four Mile Tree property.

I told her I believe this is the tree she mentions. She said she was told that the tree she was told about was blown up when the battle of ship to land fired onto the land. I told her, I really don't think so...unless there were other very large trees (which by all means is quite possible)...but on Pipsico, Ranger Dan said this is the ONLY largest tree on Pipsico!!! And Oldest!!! But I have a feeling (and I am going with my WOMEN's GUT FEELING!!) that this is the tree!

She wants to come to Pipsico, she wants to see the tree, the dig area, the BS museum...so when I speak to Ranger Dan next, I will let him know of her and see if we can set up a time. I want to be there too!!! hhehehee.

When hanging up with her, she requested I mail her my information, as she DOES NOT want to loose touch with me!! I was so excited. Thanks Eric, for the use of this book....!!!!

So, that's my story and I'm sticking to it....I'll be offline from about 5pm tonight till Sunday night! I'll take lots of pics (esp of areas of interest for our hunt so ya'll can see them before we arrive, since none of us have been in these locations!!!)

See ya'll in a couple of weeks....WHOOO HOOOO!
Annmarie

PS: If I am not mistaken, I believe Ranger Dan told me that the Post Office was on the same side where his house is but close to the road and he said a store was there too! Unless the store and post office were one building? And that land is what the BSA recommends we detect!!! They will start digging it up after January!!!!!!!!! I'm gonna' try to get some of detecting done over there tomorrow, since we get in late tonight. I will let you know what happens. And do you realize, we have not really detected the land at the front of the property where the Pipsico sign is? I know...so much land, so little time LOL!!!

 

[LadyDigger]

Hey, just found this website....read the second paragraph....I knew they were on Pipsico...they mention Dillard's Wharf!!!

http://www.n-ssa.org/TIDEWATER/3NC/3rdNC.html

Here's something else I found:

http://books.google.com/books?id=ys...&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=7&ct=result

Here's the tide table for October and Dillards Wharf is noted:

http://www.tidesonline.com/showtable.php?stationname=HamptonRoads&IDNUM=865

Another tide table:

http://www.fishingreporters.com/cgi-bin/tide/tide.pl?location=Dillard Wharf

 

[Old Fart in TN]

Hi Ann,
going back through the book I have I did find a few lines about the 4 mile tree.

On good friday,
March 22,1622, there occurred the Great massacre by the Indians under Opercanough. Richard Pace was then resideing at his plantation called "Paces Paines" on the banks of the James on the Surry side near the Four Mile Tree and Mount Pleasant plantations. Pace , who had been living at his plantation sice December 5, 1620, was instrumental in saving the livesw of the Jamestown settlers. page 29 Colonial Surry by Boddie

Colonel Jordan lived near Four Mile Tree, At this plantation is one of the oldest tombstones in Virginia with a legible insription. It was erected to the memory of his wife and reads:
"Here lyeth the Body of Alyce Myles daughter of John Myles of Branton near Herreford Gent. and late wife of Mr. George Jordan in Virginia who depated this life the 7th of january 1650 reader, her just is here incosed who was of Witt and grace composed Her life was
Vertuous uring health But Highly Glorious in her death"

Surry was also invaded in the War of 1812, Colonel William Allen was then in charge of the county militia and he wrote the Governor on July 1, 1813, as follows " The day I wrote you from Cabin Point by mail, June 29, I ordered my reiment to convene at Surry Ct. House the next day. Have at this time all the men that have arms on duty, to prevent, if possible the British from comitting depredations on the shores. today I went down to Four Mile Tree, where I understood the British had landed from some of their Barges; unfortunately they had returned about half and hour before I got there with two companies of Infantry.

not sure if this will help you with your hunt for the Dillards wharf but this may help with land marks for the Four Mile Tree. Any ideas who owned the land before the Dillard family? Got alittle info on several other families in the area along with points along the James and hog island. Wishing I was closer to come hunt with you guys. Jeff

 

[EX2user]

Hey everyone

Take a look at this site please. Look at the research and map section.

http://www.mountpleasantrestoration.com/html/resear/mcc/hist-01.html

Eric

 

[Old Fart in TN]

good find. I am sure I will be spending some time surfing this spot.

 

[Kiros32]

Wow nice find Eric, I will check it out tomorrow.

 

[EX2user]

Thanks Kiros 32 and waltripcrew.

That this area has been right in the middle of making Virginia history from the beginning. Here is one more link.

http://research.history.org/DigitalLibrary/VirginiaGazette/VGbyYear.cfm

The web site talks about Henry Browne running an ad in the paper. February 7,1751 page 4. You can read it. It also states the the University of Virginia has boxes of documents from the Cocke Family, Letters etc. Maybe some one close could drop by and take a look.

 

[LadyDigger]

Hey ya'll....I was too pooped last night to post pics....I made a new topic under VIRGINIA for the photos of our totally awesome weekend.

I did not bring the metal detector, no room, but it was for the boys, Our Scouts and in celebration of Pipsico's 50th...but I did for a short bit, on Saturday night, regret not bringing it...but I got over it...cause I know I will be back in two weeks.

Tonight I will post on this thread some info I found out and some other pics that could possibly help us in the research of this land and detecting it.

I was NOT able to get to the land behind the Ranger's House...nor, to the other location where Dillard's homestead may have been. Our day was filled with Scouting events ... the weekend went so fast!

But we HAD FUN and that is all that matters! Be on the look out for lots of Boy Scout stuff! My son, eyeballed, a 2 yr pin at the assembly area and is now in his collection.

However, let it be known, if you find keys, cell phones, items with names of Scouts and / or Troops, PLEASE, turn those in! I don't care how beautiful that pocket knife is...!!! Those will be given to Ranger Dan so they may be returned to the owners of these items! If I receive a list of items lost, but not found, from Ranger Dan, I will let you know at the hunt...incase we find them....like Ex2User found someone's car keys last time we were there, BEFORE Ranger Dan asked us if we found them, to let him know! LOL...it was funny when he mentioned it...as Ex2User had just returned to camp to say he found someone's car keys!!! That is a True Scout, thanks Ex2User!!!

I will say, I believe every camp site was in use and then some. Cars were parked everywhere, due to the amount of folks that came to this celebration. When we left to come up for the anniversary, last word we had was 1,300....Saturday night, we were told over 1,500 Scouts came to this celebration!!! There were alot of activities. The boys were given 6 cards, that they could trade with other Scouts to get a full set. Then there were several sites set up, that when they visited, they would receive a card...total cards was 12. Once they received those cards, they went to the Trading Post so they can see they collected all cards and they received an extra card for each, giving them a total of 14. Only a limited amount were printed...so I told my boys these were going in there Boy Scout collections...

The Trading Post also sold dog tags with 50th anniversary information. These are limited, as they were numbered! My boys got 2 each. They also sold NON-Participant Patches for the 50th...of course, we got the boys those as well. They also received upon check-out, a PARTICIPANT patch for the 50th...so now, they have a set! Those, of course, will go into their collection as well. Told the boys, when they go to the 100th anniversary, they need to wear their 50th!!! Ron and I won't be around for that one, but we are hoping we will be there for the 75th!!!

It was an overall, awesome weekend! I'm so glad I went!

Now, it's time for me to get ready for work....even though it's my day off...I am needed today...oh well...Hope Friday gets here soon, my day off again! LOL

I'll post more stuff tonight and Ex2User and Walt, thanks for the info....I will check it out tonight!

See ya'll soon,
Annmarie

 

[LadyDigger]

Hey....Ex2User wanted to get a Non-Partcipant Patch from the Pipsico's 50th....I just called the BSA Store and they said that the weekend we will be there, the Order of Arrow will have their Fall meeting going on and the guy I spoke with ... runs the Trading Post. He said the Trading Post WILL BE OPENED!!!!

He said there are quite a few of the Dog Tags left as well as NON-Partcipant Patches (as well as a few others). You can write a check, as long as your purchase is $10.00 or more or use CASH....they don't have the capabilities for credit or debit cards!

The Dog Tags are limited number...I'll take a pic of my boys and post later...they took them to school to show them off!

It's a small store, but they have a few nice things in there....

Just thought I would pass this information along...as I hope they still have the 50th Anniversary T-Shirts left so I can get me one! LOL

Anything relating to the 50th is ONLY sold in the Pipsico Trading Post!