Question: Gorgets and Bannerstones - how were they actually worn???

[Flint-seeker]

Curious, how were gorgets actually believed to be worn by the Native Americans? How about the fancy, winged bannerstones we've all seen? Around the neck, as well? There's all types of banded slate found, but how exactly was it worn in ancient times?

I understand gorgets were worn around the neck, but how? Stacked side by side? The location of the holes indicate there were stacked with string or sinew... If 10-15 of these banded slate gorgets were all strung together, has a complete "gorget cache" ever been found? Most people, if lucky enough, tend to find a single (and often broken) one, not a few... Am I incorrect in this assumption?

Forgive me if this isn't the correct forum to post, but does anyone have any images show precisely "how" they have been thought to be worn?

I did an extensive google search and couldn't come up with a single image or depiction of how gorgets were worn on Native Americans...

Thanks in advance...

Shane

 

[trevmma]

i beleive they where worn around the neck so people out of the culture group new who to talk to about certain things, for instance winged banner, people knew they were talking to cheif, if they had a understood language or not, maybe cresent you were talking to the assistant cheif and so on, birdstones could of been popeyed for the cheif( or man dudes wife) and regular his daughter, never know

 

[1320]

i beleive they where worn around the neck so people out of the culture group new who to talk to about certain things, for instance winged banner, people knew they were talking to cheif, if they had a understood language or not, maybe cresent you were talking to the assistant cheif and so on, birdstones could of been popeyed for the cheif( or man dudes wife) and regular his daughter, never know

Seems plausible to me T, rank and file....interesting. I'm one hundred percent certain that Natives observed the pecking order in nature and perhaps imitated it......

 

[lostlake88]

Curious, how were gorgets actually believed to be worn by the Native Americans? How about the fancy, winged bannerstones we've all seen? Around the neck, as well? There's all types of banded slate found, but how exactly was it worn in ancient times?

I understand gorgets were worn around the neck, but how? Stacked side by side? The location of the holes indicate there were stacked with string or sinew... If 10-15 of these banded slate gorgets were all strung together, has a complete "gorget cache" ever been found? Most people, if lucky enough, tend to find a single (and often broken) one, not a few... Am I incorrect in this assumption?

Forgive me if this isn't the correct forum to post, but does anyone have any images show precisely "how" they have been thought to be worn?

I did an extensive google search and couldn't come up with a single image or depiction of how gorgets were worn on Native Americans...

Thanks in advance...

Shane

Etohwe Mound (sp?) in Georgia, and a couple of shell mounds in southern Kentucky dug by U.K. archies Webb and Baby showed these gorgets along the wrist area of the arm, kinda like a showy cufflink. I have always believed it had to do with some sort of cast system or social bearing within the community that was accepted universally in the region. Birdtones? Well your guess is as good as mine.

 

[lostlake88]

This is a good theory. When you get the rock bug your mind twists like a tornado, theories and thoughts arise. I like it your theory Trevmma. I have heard them all but yours is original and should be worthy to add to the list of possibilities. When future archeaologist study us and recover silver and gold cuff links in our coffins what will they think. Why so small in our case, and why so big in the Adena's case.

 

[tomclark]

Macrocallista nimbosa SunRay Clam one holed gorget, could have been worn on a necklace or even an earring it is super thin. @ 3 inches wide.

This one found by a friend, scalloped two holed with a stylized hand motif cut into it. Busycon

 

[unclemac]

..and out west..on the coast at least...salmon was KING.

 

[Tnmountains]

I think Gorgets were status symbols and jewelry. Bannerstones started as atlatl weights and evolved to amazing works of art. The bow was not really around for very long was it? In the scheme of things? As mentioned in burials they were also in location by the arm with a dart points and hooks and pitch that would have been an atlatl if the wood and binding survived. I will try to find the pic of the burial.


http://www.worldatlatl.org/Articles...April 08-Atlatl Artifacts at Indian Knoll.pdf



Webb tabulated 44 burials with atlatl parts. Most often these were a hook and either a handle or a weight, but a few hadall three. There were 13 instances where at least two parts were in alignment and a reasonable distance apart. Holes ofsimilar diameter in handles, hooks, and bannerstones, and traces of asphalt in the holes, suggested that they had once beenlinked by a wooden shaft, secured with asphalt. I looked carefully at the photos of 24 of the burials with atlatl parts inWebb’s report, and was a bit disappointed. Twelve of these photos are described as showing atlatl parts in alignment, butin only 2 or 3 is this reasonably clear. In most, it is really impossible to see for sure. In the majority of graves with atlatlparts, they were side-by-side, or disarranged. Webb plausibly explains this as intentional destruction of some atlatls, withthe wooden shaft snapped before the parts were buried. In other cases, it is clear that decomposition of the body or laterdisturbance of the grave is responsible for the position of the artifacts. However, for those who doubt that bannerstoneswere atlatl weights, there is still no completely indisputable clinching evidence in these photos

 

[pickaway]

One was found insitu at the Adena mound in chillicothe around the wrist area.

 

[unclemac]

The bow was not really around for very long was it? In the scheme of things?

does anyone here have a good article on the bow's evolution in America? where, who, when etc? Seems odd that all peoples eventually had the bow but at different times and in isolation from each other.

 

[IllinoisDug]

I think Gorgets were status symbols and jewelry. Bannerstones started as atlatl weights and evolved to amazing works of art. The bow was not really around for very long was it? In the scheme of things? As mentioned in burials they were also in location by the arm with a dart points and hooks and pitch that would have been an atlatl if the wood and binding survived. I will try to find the pic of the burial.


http://www.worldatlatl.org/Articles/New%20Folder/historicalAtlatl/April%2008-Atlatl%20Artifacts%20at%20Indian%20Knoll.pdf



Webb tabulated 44 burials with atlatl parts. Most often these were a hook and either a handle or a weight, but a few hadall three. There were 13 instances where at least two parts were in alignment and a reasonable distance apart. Holes ofsimilar diameter in handles, hooks, and bannerstones, and traces of asphalt in the holes, suggested that they had once beenlinked by a wooden shaft, secured with asphalt. I looked carefully at the photos of 24 of the burials with atlatl parts inWebb’s report, and was a bit disappointed. Twelve of these photos are described as showing atlatl parts in alignment, butin only 2 or 3 is this reasonably clear. In most, it is really impossible to see for sure. In the majority of graves with atlatlparts, they were side-by-side, or disarranged. Webb plausibly explains this as intentional destruction of some atlatls, withthe wooden shaft snapped before the parts were buried. In other cases, it is clear that decomposition of the body or laterdisturbance of the grave is responsible for the position of the artifacts. However, for those who doubt that bannerstoneswere atlatl weights, there is still no completely indisputable clinching evidence in these photos

"Bannerstones started as atlatl weights and evolved to amazing works of art" - I'm in this camp. Why not show your status as a good hunter by having a beautiful piece on your weapon? I was also under the impression that the additional weight was not to not cause the spear to be thrown faster, but rather to reduce shoulder strain.

 

[bsit1361]

I thought I heard once that there was a picture of buffalo bill and sitting bull and sitting bull was wearing one on his neck. I have found one in all my years. A quatra concave Adena gorget. I was told that it was Adena because it was only drilled from one side.

 

[WhiteCountyPaleo]

I think most bannerstones were used by the highest authority in the community possibly for death penalties or rituals. They have been associated with handles and atlatl hooks, but an atlatl works perfectly without a bannerstone. Take for instance the double crescent or ovate... those things are huge. Who could stay stiff long enough in the ready for that deer to come close? Maybe they were even used for competitions among atlatlists? Paleoplanet.net has a good Atlatl forum.

 

[WhiteCountyPaleo]

I guess the banner could also rest on the shoulder while the atlatl is in the ready...

 

[Tnmountains]

I did not realize this was an old thread but still a good one. I wonder if there would be wear marks from atlatl use or breaks from use wear. I watched a group on a special pbs show one time use them and hunt with them and they showed the advantage of the weight. Still think they were prized items and some may have been exaggerated in art form. Mystery.

 

[GatorBoy]

I could be wrong but it seems to me an atlatl works like a hand held catapult. So depending on the lenght of the atlatl the counter weight would need to be different to create volocity.A longer atlatl with a larger counter weight ...should...be able to throw a larger and heavier point further and harder.

 

[digordie]

This may be far fetched but i have heard that gorget stones where used as what were called seer stones. The spiritual leader could use them to see visions and recieve answers to prayers for his people. Much like the crystal ball is used today by mystics. I know from reading hisorical records that some of the early colonists found these artifacts and had similar results looking into them and saw visions and such. Seems hard to believe but we have to be somewhat open minded if we want to truly understand these unexplainables. We are a truly different people than those of the past even the more recent past.

 

[larson1951]

I could be wrong but it seems to me an atlatl works like a hand held catapult. So depending on the lenght of the atlatl the counter weight would need to be different to create volocity.A longer atlatl with a larger counter weight ...should...be able to throw a larger and heavier point further and harder.

yup you are right
look at the power of one....turn your sound when you watch this

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/american-indian-artifacts/314974-atlatl.html

 

[WhiteCountyPaleo]

I did not realize this was an old thread but still a good one. I wonder if there would be wear marks from atlatl use or breaks from use wear. I watched a group on a special pbs show one time use them and hunt with them and they showed the advantage of the weight. Still think they were prized items and some may have been exaggerated in art form. Mystery.

Here is one I've found.... One barrel edge is crisp, but the other is flattened and also with a notch. Possibly to hold the dart from moving forward and away from the hook set. A sinew ring on the dart could nestle in to the groove that is on the barrel?

 

[GatorBoy]

yup you are right
look at the power of one....turn your sound when you watch this

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/american-indian-artifacts/314974-atlatl.html

Would not want to be on the reciving end of that!