Season 5

[gazzahk]

gazzahk, So you believe there was treasure above 170 feet?

I believe the descendants believe their story. So I think it is definitely plausible that treasure was found in the pit by the first 3 men. I think this then explains the legend. The rumor of actual treasure got out so people went looking for more.

I also accept it is plausible that Sam Ball found some treasure on OI (although there are other equally plausible explanations for his gaing wealth while he lived there)

 

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[Au_Dreamers]

"ep... That cavern is not that big and he was down there for 35 minutes. I doubt that there could of been much metal in there or he would of found it. If there was metal then it was probably from previous drilling holes. They keep saying no one has been that deep. How could they possibly know that. That thing they called a hook could of easily been part of a previous drilling effort. How many drill holes have been done in the area. They seem to imply that the only previous searches were just digging mine shafts without drilling for core samples before. I doubt this is true.

If a previous drill hole had punctured the top of that cavity the things there could of fallen in through that hole (if anything is there)"

This is just one example of just theory. No proof.

IMHO regarding that diver.... he doesn't know what he's doing. As a professional underwater treasure finder I was not impressed with what he was doing in that hole. I didn't expect "him" to find anything.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

I believe the descendants believe their story. So I think it is definitely plausible that treasure was found in the pit by the first 3 men. I think this then explains the legend. The rumor of actual treasure got out so people went looking for more.

I also accept it is plausible that Sam Ball found some treasure on OI (although there are other equally plausible explanations for his gaing wealth while he lived there)

Do you believe the original 3 kids found platforms while they dug?

 

[gazzahk]

Do you believe the original 3 kids found platforms while they dug?

My readings suggest the original three were not children. They we in their 20's at least. It is possible that one of them was near 30. The claim of 'boys' came from later news reports. Young men would of been more accurate.

I suppose it is possible if there were three chests at the 10 or so foot that these guys reportedly found treasure it may be true that these chests were sitting on a platform. I see no reason to question it more then the claim itself.

 

[gazzahk]

"ep... That cavern is not that big and he was down there for 35 minutes. I doubt that there could of been much metal in there or he would of found it.

I am not seeking to pick an argument here... But that seems a reasonable claim... Why if there was something there did he not find it? That would imply nothing was there... Right...

If there was metal then it was probably from previous drilling holes.

How else could metal (not natural) have gotten there unless someone else put it there.. Thus there MUST of been a previous hole... Right?

They keep saying no one has been that deep. How could they possibly know that.

There is extensive documented evidence of drilling of holes by previous treasure searchers. This source alone shows the multiple (more then 40 drill shafts)



Everyone of those dots is a drill shaft. source:http://www.oakislandcompendium.ca/u..._island_mystery_toronto_les_m_may_22_2013.pdf

That thing they called a hook could of easily been part of a previous drilling effort.

And are you saying that this is not possible? What else could it be?

How many drill holes have been done in the area. They seem to imply that the only previous searches were just digging mine shafts without drilling for core samples before. I doubt this is true.

With this one I fail to see what you think needs proving. It is a factual statement

If a previous drill hole had punctured the top of that cavity the things there could of fallen in through that hole (if anything is there)"

This is also just a factual statement.. stuff could of fallen through

This is just one example of just theory. No proof.

I really fail to understand what point you are seeking to make..

 

[Au_Dreamers]

I am not seeking to pick an argument here... But that seems a reasonable claim... Why if there was something there did he not find it? That would imply nothing was there... Right...

Firstly are we now talking about reasonable claims or factual evidence? To me this illustrates my point in my original post.

Secondly, I'm not saying something is there and he missed it. I'm saying it is a reasonable claim that he lacks the expertise to find something if it is there. Maybe he didn't find something because he lacks experience with that metal detector. They can be tricky to use properly. He was also in zero visibility water. How much experience does he have running that detector in zero vis? I've watched experience divers with lots of detector experience cover a 6 foot area of a 15 foot hole swearing they covered the whole excavation in a zero vis situation.

So there is an alternate opinion, not fact of what may have happened.

How else could metal (not natural) have gotten there unless someone else put it there.. Thus there MUST of been a previous hole... Right? There is extensive documented evidence of drilling of holes by previous treasure searchers. This source alone shows the multiple (more then 40 drill shafts)

View attachment 1559773

Everyone of those dots is a drill shaft. source:http://www.oakislandcompendium.ca/u..._island_mystery_toronto_les_m_may_22_2013.pdf


And are you saying that this is not possible? What else could it be? With this one I fail to see what you think needs proving. It is a factual statement

This is also just a factual statement.. stuff could of fallen through

"could have" is presumptive, not factual. It could have been deposited there on purpose, is also presumptive, not factual.

If a previous drill hole had punctured the top of that cavity the things there could of fallen in through that hole (if anything is there)"

Again "If and could of" is speculation, not factual evidence. You have multiple speculation in this one line.

I really fail to understand what point you are seeking to make..

Seriously how could I be any more clear?

What I think is funny is that the naysayers "probability, speculation and theories" apparently do not require the same burden of proof as the "believers".

I see no credible evidence, only opinions.

I guess to turn the tables, just because one has it in their head and then posts it, it does not make it factual.

Don't worry, you're not the only one doing it.

-Cheers

 

[ECS]

Well, you're kind of missing the obvious.
You see, when there is absolutely ZERO supporting evidence to all of these true believer claims and speculations it does, in fact, give all the naysayers that burden proof which you are missing.
You see, when neither side of the debate can actually turn up any factual evidence to debate there is no actual subject in existence.

...and that appears to be the case with several treasure legends, and when NO actual evidential proof exists, all manner of creative theories can be made and promoted as fact without producing legitimate credible supporting documentation.

 

[gazzahk]

Firstly are we now talking about reasonable claims or factual evidence? To me this illustrates my point in my original post.

Secondly, I'm not saying something is there and he missed it. I'm saying it is a reasonable claim that he lacks the expertise to find something if it is there. Maybe he didn't find something because he lacks experience with that metal detector. They can be tricky to use properly. He was also in zero visibility water. How much experience does he have running that detector in zero vis? I've watched experience divers with lots of detector experience cover a 6 foot area of a 15 foot hole swearing they covered the whole excavation in a zero vis situation.

So there is an alternate opinion, not fact of what may have happened.

It is a FACT that nothing was found. It is also the case that the Laginas have given up on this hole so they accept nothing was there. The only person who still seems to think that man made objects exist in the hole is you. Thereofre you are claiming that your view is of equal merit. It is not. Your view has NO EVIDENCE to support it. There is EVIDNCE of nothing being found.

"could have" is presumptive, not factual. It could have been deposited there on purpose, is also presumptive, not factual.

Then there is no reason to challenge it is there. As no one claimed it to be the definitive reason. Once again there does not appear to be an alternative explanation. It was the Laginas that drilled the massive hole to bedrock and found nothing in what they speculated was the pit. Thus the stuff that they found previously at that level most probable source was falling down from higher up.

Again "If and could of" is speculation, not factual evidence. You have multiple speculation in this one line.

Once again who claimed this to be fact? It was offered as speculation.. What is the point you are making? I really fail to understand. Do you disagree that with this possibility? Do you think that it equally as likely that the tiny pieces of pottery/bone/parchment were deposited by treasure hiders at 170+ foot. If their was stuff there the hole they dug would of found it. The fact they found nothing PROVES nothing existed in the hole... Right?

Seriously how could I be any more clear?

What I think is funny is that the naysayers "probability, speculation and theories" apparently do not require the same burden of proof as the "believers".

Believer in what? Do you believe treasure exists at 170+ foot on OI?

I see no credible evidence, only opinions.

If we are talking about treasure I agree. If we are talking about looney theories I agree. There is NO CREDIBLE EVIDENCE of treasure being buried below 170+ft on OI.

I guess to turn the tables, just because one has it in their head and then posts it, it does not make it factual.

Don't worry, you're not the only one doing it.

I am afraid my friend your post simply reinforces that you have zero reason to be a believer.. It is called wishful thinking...

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Don't keep changing the sentence structure to fit your claims... you're all over the place.

You posed this

"Why if there was something there did he not find it?"

I gave you a reply based on my personal professional experiences.

"The only person who still seems to think that man made objects exist in the hole is you."

Well now see there you go again ASSuming a falacy when I have clearly stated, "Secondly, I'm not saying something is there and he missed it..." I replied to your question.

Again I have never stated my opinion on treasure on Oak Island, it seems as if you and others have prejudice ideas in your heads that you don't even bother to actually understand what is being written because you have in your mind what you believe is being said.

It's like having an actual conversation with someone that isn't listening to what you are saying because they believe they already know what you are going to say.

I think my stance is very clear, not sure how you don't comprehend it.

At least you do consider some of the history to be possible as others believe the young men that found the depression and everyone after them are liars. Their panties are wound so tight they even resort to calling participants of the TV show derogatory names and mock them.

Just jealous I guess.

Enjoy the season finale tomorrow!

 

[gazzahk]

Well now see there you go again ASSuming a falacy when I have clearly stated, "Secondly, I'm not saying something is there and he missed it..

I am not seeking to be argumentative.. I really do fail to understand your point. How could it be proved nothing is there? It is not possible if you are not willing to accept that sending someone down the hole to look is not proof.. What is?

Again I have never stated my opinion on treasure on Oak Island, it seems as if you and others have prejudice ideas in your heads that you don't even bother to actually understand what is being written because you have in your mind what you believe is being said.

I have given my opinion. What is yours. You seem to me to be claiming that people who point to lack of evidence and therefore do not believe something is the same as people who from the same lack of evidence choose to believe something exists. If this is not what you are saying. What exactly is your point. NO EVIDENCE has been found. Therefore no treasure has been shown to exist. That is what people are saying. As stated before one cannot prove no treasure but one can prove treasure... This has not been shown. No evidence has been offered. NOTHING in the last 200 years has been offered as evidence of treasure buried below 170+ft. This is what the show is claiming it is searching for. How is it that people who point out the lack of evidence need to prove the lack of evidence. The lack is the proof.

It's like having an actual conversation with someone that isn't listening to what you are saying because they believe they already know what you are going to say.

I think my stance is very clear, not sure how you don't comprehend it.

I am not seeking to be argumentative but I really do not comprehend what you are saying. To me it seems to claim that because people require proof to believe a unsubstantiated claim you are asking for proof the claim is not true. If this is not the case than what are you saying?

At least you do consider some of the history to be possible as others believe the young men that found the depression and everyone after them are liars.

The only "liars" I am claiming is the current TV show this season. They keep making claims then offer zero evidence to support those claims.. Up to the end of last season I thought they did a pretty good job. I thought by the end of the season most of the mystery had been solved. This season I think they are being deliberately deceptive to stretch the show out. I do not believe that past treasure seekers were a bunch of liars. If they were then there would be more evidence.

Enjoy the season finale tomorrow!

Thank you.. I am hoping that they will finally make a discovery that will blow peoples mind... I just are not very confident that they will.

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

View attachment 1559773

When the laginas first presented the map of holes they had drilled this season and were playing the, “where should we drill now” game and showing a map of the holes they had drilled, my thoughts were that they sure drilled a lot of holes that were not shown on the show. Now it’s clear that the writers are running out of imagination and are starting to use other sources for the show like this map to copy and continue the rapidly fading storyline. Even more factual evidence the show is a hoax....

 

[n2mini]

It is a TV show after all. Some of ya'll complain when they spend time just showing them drilling holes and now your complaining they didn't show them drilling all the holes on the map. No one wants to watch a whole show of them standing there watching other people work drilling holes so the show has to have something they think is interesting to show us while that is going on. Dang it is a TV show remember... They also know they can't just go digging anytime or anywhere as they have to have permits for that and some of them probably have a time frame attached to them..

 

[Bud Aurum]

Relic Found, Could It Be?

Thank you.. I am hoping that they will finally make a discovery that will blow peoples mind... I just are not very confident that they will.

From the internet noise I'm hearing, A relic of some kind is found in this season-ending 2 hour episode.

A fourth hole turned up stuff that was terribly interesting and one of the brothers quoted
"I honestly think that if you thought the Spanish coin was a big find, people will love this".

A step up from a Spanish coin doesn't leave me much confidence either.

Your Bud Aurum

 

[b3y0nd3r]

if you believe the descendats story the 3 guys who first dug under the tree found three small chests at 10ft... Everyone after that has just been digging a bigger hole in the hope that someone missed some treasure....

There is ZERO credible evidence that anyone other then the treasure searchers have dug any deeper than that.

The most probable explanation in my view is that the area is a sink hole. That an earthquake broke the top of one of those massive underwater cavities and some soil liquiduifcaction occurred. The water come up to replace the soil. The surface soil sunk a bit. When the treasure searchers dug down to where the water had come up from those underground cavities the pit flooded. Every other hole has just been flooded by the same water source ie from the underground caves.

The is ZERO evidence of flood tunnels. The timber found in the hole was just fallen limbs of the tree that had sunk down in the sink hole.

Joy Steele in her book believes the original pit was a pine tar Kiln originally and this can explain the charcoal etc... She also thinks there was a sink hole/cave in was involved and the water came form below ground.

I do not understand how anyone can still believe in the flood tunnel speculation in that zero evidence of these has been found. Every hole that get dug has flooded....

Where did I say a specific group dug anything?

I said nothing about flood tunnels either.

So is it just a sink hole? Or was it a tar pit? Are there records of an earthquake to prove your theory?


"Singlestack Wonder
Wait......you actually believe the show?......I mean.....it’s a great factual show and they will actually dig up the templar treasure, Ark of the Covenant and all. I’ve also got a treasure site I found that contains the last known shipment of confederate gold.....I just need a some donations to reach the treasure .....please send lots of cash ASAP and I’ll cut you in for 20%. "

Let me be more clear. In the context of what I stated above, I believe the show.

As for it being a great factual show, I never said that either. I believe The brothers true passion to find something. I believe that they are doing it wrong. I believe that they found the stated items above which match the original story.

And to me, that is what is important. If the original story is proved true, then someone was there, dug something, for some reason.

Is/was there a treasure? I have no clue nor do I even care to speculate. Are the brothers liars? I don't think so. I think it is unfair to call someone a liar without knowing them in person. All we have is what the producers show us. Is the History channel out to make a buck and would do just about anything to? Yes.

I can't say what's there because I am not there. I do know this, they are never going to find anything if they don't change their procedures. With all the money they spent already, they could of damned the island and dug a stripping pit. Like i say, get Parker Schnabel and tell him there is gold down there. they will have it dug in a day.

 

[n2mini]

but you can't do that kind of digging on the island anymore, and what you can do, you have to have permits to do it and I'm sure some one comes to check on them every so often...

 

[b3y0nd3r]

but you can't do that kind of digging on the island anymore, and what you can do, you have to have permits to do it and I'm sure some one comes to check on them every so often...

with enough money anything can be done.

 

[skybolt]

Where did I say a specific group dug anything?

I said nothing about flood tunnels either.

So is it just a sink hole? Or was it a tar pit? Are there records of an earthquake to prove your theory?


"Singlestack Wonder
Wait......you actually believe the show?......I mean.....it’s a great factual show and they will actually dig up the templar treasure, Ark of the Covenant and all. I’ve also got a treasure site I found that contains the last known shipment of confederate gold.....I just need a some donations to reach the treasure .....please send lots of cash ASAP and I’ll cut you in for 20%. "

Let me be more clear. In the context of what I stated above, I believe the show.

As for it being a great factual show, I never said that either. I believe The brothers true passion to find something. I believe that they are doing it wrong. I believe that they found the stated items above which match the original story.

And to me, that is what is important. If the original story is proved true, then someone was there, dug something, for some reason.

Is/was there a treasure? I have no clue nor do I even care to speculate. Are the brothers liars? I don't think so. I think it is unfair to call someone a liar without knowing them in person. All we have is what the producers show us. Is the History channel out to make a buck and would do just about anything to? Yes.

I can't say what's there because I am not there. I do know this, they are never going to find anything if they don't change their procedures. With all the money they spent already, they could of damned the island and dug a stripping pit. Like i say, get Parker Schnabel and tell him there is gold down there. they will have it dug in a day.

The problem is that Dunfield turned everything within the money pit area topsy turvy (at least to a 100 ft depth). I'm not sure how the brothers could prove or disprove anything from the original story when we're talking about such shallow depths that were already turned into Swiss cheese by other searchers. This is why they're doing their darndest to prove that something of importance was buried more than a 150 ft deep in the money pit area.

Do I believe that the brothers had good intentions of finding something of importance on Oak Island, yes I do. However, at this point, I do think the producers are using their resources to plant evidence elsewhere on the island while no one is looking, while convincing the brothers to go along with their story line to keep the show going. For instance, if the producers came to the Laginas and said that we just don't have enough material to fill 18 episodes this season, so we need something else besides digging in the money pit area. Then 2 weeks later came back and said that one of their metal detecting guys found the lead cross, and it would be a good idea for Gary to reenact the find, I highly doubt the Laginas would ask for proof or say no. All they want to hear is that the show will continue to finance their dig, so if they have to listen to some crackpot theory every week and take a side trip to France, then so be it.

 

[b3y0nd3r]

The problem is that Dunfield turned everything within the money pit area topsy turvy (at least to a 100 ft depth). I'm not sure how the brothers could prove or disprove anything from the original story when we're talking about such shallow depths that were already turned into Swiss cheese by other searchers. This is why they're doing their darndest to prove that something of importance was buried more than a 150 ft deep in the money pit area.

Do I believe that the brothers had good intentions of finding something of importance on Oak Island, yes I do. However, at this point, I do think the producers are using their resources to plant evidence elsewhere on the island while no one is looking, while convincing the brothers to go along with their story line to keep the show going. For instance, if the producers came to the Laginas and said that we just don't have enough material to fill 18 episodes this season, so we need something else besides digging in the money pit area. Then 2 weeks later came back and said that one of their metal detecting guys found the lead cross, and it would be a good idea for Gary to reenact the find, I highly doubt the Laginas would ask for proof or say no. All they want to hear is that the show will continue to finance their dig, so if they have to listen to some crackpot theory every week and take a side trip to France, then so be it.

That soil would need to be removed.

While I would like to think that is is not true, it's possible. But some stuff, can't really be faked, like the clay and charcoal(I hope I don't have to explain why on this).

I don't believe they would play act. They just aren't good enough. There are certain tells that someone is acting and they are not displaying any of them.

I know in this day and age of fake news, anything can be faked. however, people hardly ever change(at the instinctive level). I stand by my point that the bone, charcoal, clay, and other items I mentioned, were not planted and do show that something was going on then.

 

[skybolt]

That soil would need to be removed.

While I would like to think that is is not true, it's possible. But some stuff, can't really be faked, like the clay and charcoal(I hope I don't have to explain why on this).

I don't believe they would play act. They just aren't good enough. There are certain tells that someone is acting and they are not displaying any of them.

I know in this day and age of fake news, anything can be faked. however, people hardly ever change(at the instinctive level). I stand by my point that the bone, charcoal, clay, and other items I mentioned, were not planted and do show that something was going on then.

In all honesty, I don't believe anything was planted in the money pit area, including the bones found. However, just like the show "Storage Wars" there's nothing stopping the producers from planting items at arbitrary locations within the island and then reenacting the finds. It would not be too hard to convince the Laginas to wait on dating the cross just in case it's not authentic.

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

McGinnis brothers: “What’s that? A lantern on that island? Let’s go see who’s there...”

Sailors on island: “That’s enough mates! Wipe your arses and get back to the boat”