She was only 3 days old.

[Bigcypresshunter]

I posted this here last year, but have yet to positively ID. We have some new members and I could get some new thoughts. It is silver and very THIN like a tag and the size of a quarter. Its hand engraved on the front in Old English copperplate script:

Jo-Ann L. Hall
12-30-43--1-2-44

There are some official looking numbers on the back: G-1506.

The back is also hand engraved. The numbers may coincide with a US military grave plot but what cemetery?... What century?

Plot G- Row 15- Grave 06?

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Ohh I forgot my whole point again, and side railed rambling about who knows what!

The numbers on the back, look like an ID, have no idea what reasons they would be there, other than an ID. I might be way off! ID of luggage,body,Whether alive or dead.Maybe even equipment, or even a product? It just looks too different style than the front. Just thoughts, maybe already mentioned

The front looks hand carved or ornate. The back looks stamped, like in uniform, so there is no confusion of what it says! That looks like the purpose to me. The real ID.

Yes the back is key to identification and it must mean something. Grave number, luggage tag, ID number, phone number, ...etc. However its definitely not machine stamped. Too bad as that would have been a huge clue.It may be hard to see from my pics but under a loupe, I can see individual engraving strokes to form these letters. It was definitely engraved, but Im not able to determine at this time if it was engraved by the same person that did the front.

It took 4 strokes to make the number 1, it took 8 strokes to make the number 0.

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

I am told this style (on the front) is called Old English copperplate script. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copperplate_script

Copperplate script was prevalent in the 19th century, but was used as early as the 16th century in Europe. As a result, the term "copperplate" is mostly used to refer to any old-fashioned, tidy handwriting.

This style of calligraphy is different from that produced by angled nibs in that the thickness of the stroke is determined by the pressure applied when writing, instead of nib angle in relation to the writing surface. All copperplate forms (minuscules, majuscules, numbers, and punctuation) are written at a letter slant of 55 degrees from the horizontal.[2]

Now the back is a little different style but I can see that the strokes on the 1 and 5 come to a point which is created by using less pressure. Clic on to enlarge.

 

[Breezie]

I think I've found something. I entered the following information on Ancestry. com:
Name: Jo Ann Hall
Birth: 1943
Death: 1944

The first item listed was 'Find A Grave' with the following information:

Jo Ann Hall Inscription: Infant daughter of Lex & Ruby Hall

Burial: Providence Cemetery Graham Alamance County North Carolina, USA Plot: A-8 Here is the website address:

Jo Ann Hall - Find A Grave Memorial


Breezie

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I think I've found something. I entered the following information on Ancestry. com:
Name: Jo Ann Hall
Birth: 1843
Death: 1844

The first item listed was 'Find A Grave' with the following information:

Jo Ann Hall Inscription: Infant daughter of Lex & Ruby Hall

Burial: Providence Cemetery Graham Alamance County North Carolina, USA Plot: A-8 Here is the website address:

Jo Ann Hall - Find A Grave Memorial


Breezie

Thats worth a shot because its an infant with the same name. We need to try and contact them to find a birth or death date or to see if they lost anything in Florida. Thanks Breezie.


thats an old cemetary so maybe.

 

[Breezie]

I made a typo mistake on the date: I originally posted 1843/1844, but it was 1943/1944 when I typed it in Ancestry .com.
I'm looking up the parents now, and may have an address. I'll post as soon as I do.
According to Ancestry. com, this is the ONLY Jo Ann Hall that died between Dec. 1943 and Jan. 1944. I checked all 50 states.

Breezie

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

But it says date unknown. Maybe they dont remember?

Its possible that they dont know the exact date but they may know if the child lived only a few days.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The parents are alive?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

this is getting interesting...Find A Grave Contributor: Jason & Mitzie

It appears Jason is a grave contributer and he is documenting old graves.

There are so many old cemeteries in this part of NC so we are trying to post as many interments as possible to help all you researchers out. Also, most of the stones they used for markers in the 1800's are not standing up to the elements very well so it's a race against time to get as many pictures as possible. If you are looking for more NC relatives, I am working with the team of volunteers at cemeterycensus.com. They have surveyed and taken pictures of a ton of cemeteries in central NC.

Can you find a picture of this grave?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I received your PMs with the address Breezie. Im studying all this now.

 

[Breezie]

=Bigcypresshunter;4643024]But it says date unknown. Maybe they dont remember?

Its possible that they dont know the exact date but they may know if the child lived only a few days.

'Find A Grave' is basically volunteer work where volunteers go to cemeteries and photograph headstones or either post information about the deceased. Find A Grave is NOT a site done by the parents or family. More than likely it was a simple headstone with the name of the child and parents and had no date. At the bottom of the memorial, the volunteers who did this is listed, plus the date they made the entry:
Created by: Jason & Mitzie
Record added: Feb 18, 2009
Find A Grave Memorial# 33958361

Ancestry.com is the most accurate and largest site for searching family ancestries. Whenever you do a search on Ancestry, the most accurate answer is listed first. When I put all the information in the blanks, the 'Find A Grave' for Jo Ann Hall was the first item listed. When I entered the parents names (which I got from Find A Grave,) there were only 2 entries, and both were City Directories. This to me is good news because if either were dead, a death certificate would/should have been in the list.



http://www.coplandfabrics.com/history.htm



Breezie

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Im studying all this. It make take me a while to piece it together in my mind because I am not familiar with Ancestry.com and I dont remember this information being posted before. .. If the parents are still alive, I think they would remember the birth/death dates or any information I need for verification. So its worth a shot. Thanks a ton.

Im curious. Do the search again with 1843/1844 to see if it still comes up.

 

[G.I.B.]

I guess we see different things.

I thought it read To Ann LaHull

I could see distinct differences in the a and u (lower case)

Must be my old drunken eyes.

 

[Breezie]

I already did both searches: 1843-1844 and 1943-1944. Below is a copy/paste of the message I received when I did the 1843-1844 search:

[h=3]Your Search for Jo Ann Hall returned zero good matches.[/h]Why?We couldn't find any results that exactly matched the information you marked.

I think it would be worth a phone call.

 

[Breezie]

I did more research on Ancestry. com, and found death certificates for both Lex (1986) and Ruby (2013). The phone number is still in Lex's name, so evidently a family member(s) is still living in the homeplace.
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=34119033
Breezie

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I already did both searches: 1843-1844 and 1943-1944. Below is a copy/paste of the message I received when I did the 1843-1844 search:

[h=3]Your Search for Jo Ann Hall returned zero good matches.[/h]Why?We couldn't find any results that exactly matched the information you marked.

I think it would be worth a phone call.

OK I hear you Breezie and I will call or write a letter but because it says dates unknown shouldnt it come up on a search no matter what date you enter? Am I missing something? I prefer to email but I will try a letter.


Just for fun humor me and try a different dateline like 1945/1946 to see what happens.

Because you found the parents of a deceased infant daughter Jo Ann Hall, its certainly worth a shot. I wish we knew the birth or death dates.

 

[Nitric]

I guess we see different things.

I thought it read To Ann LaHull

I could see distinct differences in the a and u (lower case)

Must be my old drunken eyes.


View attachment 1199652

Ya, this gets rough! I tried reading other names in this type of writing! You have to be drunk to see it right! F,T,Y,Q,G,J,L,etc.... can all look the same or similar! And the styles never end!!!!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I guess we see different things.

I thought it read To Ann LaHull

I could see distinct differences in the a and u (lower case)

Must be my old drunken eyes.


View attachment 1199652

Here is a link on Copper Script. Reading Old Handwriting

The big difference here is I am looking at the item in person and you are looking at my pic. My scan is not bad so I painted the bottom of the J so you will see it better.



If you look at the letters in Copper Script, you will see that the T does not go below the line. It has to be a J. The only other letter that is often confused with a J is an I. But the I doesnt go below the line.



Copper script has some variations and I believe its just a fancy L. If you compare the a in Hall, you will see that its not a match. Yes they are distinctly different. There is also a distinct dot after the L maybe you are not seeing it.

I originally thought it said LeHull myself but I dont think so anymore. Thanks for your interest.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I will study the L.Hall part if you think I should. I found this.

Decorative loops and flourishes can mimic other letters such as small "e"

I think the loop at the end of the L is just a decorative loop.



GIB, it is odd that the engraver didnt close the a. I will research it further. Maybe its Jo-Ann L. Hull?

I will have to dig it out of storage and take a closer look if I have time. I was convinced it was an a. In the meantime, Im gonna follow up on Breezies lead. thanks.


Look at the pic below. You can see the stroke start to curve slightly at the top.

 

[against the wind]

Thanks for the post. The love tokens that I have come across have all been Seated Dimes.
Your post inspired me to look a little deeper. Try a little baking soda and water on the back
of that token. If it is silver, it should clean right up. I believe it was a seated quarter.
Check out this site;
americanhistory.si.edu/.../lov-token

 

[Crispin]

I would just take a second to point out that the original intent of my "most misleading post ever on TNet" was that it would be unlikely for a baby to survive and then die in the 1700 and 1800s for three days and much more probable in the 1900s. So, thanks to NH(or should I say his pediatrician wife who laughed at me), Breezie, and my good buddy RJC for finding relative data that has leads to a death in the 1900s. I apologize to TNET for being dumber then a box of rocks, I apologize to KIWI-Triki for attacking the credibility of the site, and most importantly, I apologize to Breezie for being alive. I wish my existence was not such a bain to all of you. C-Train...OUT!