She was only 3 days old.

[Bigcypresshunter]

I posted this here last year, but have yet to positively ID. We have some new members and I could get some new thoughts. It is silver and very THIN like a tag and the size of a quarter. Its hand engraved on the front in Old English copperplate script:

Jo-Ann L. Hall
12-30-43--1-2-44

There are some official looking numbers on the back: G-1506.

The back is also hand engraved. The numbers may coincide with a US military grave plot but what cemetery?... What century?

Plot G- Row 15- Grave 06?

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Cry Of The Eagle: History And Legends Of The Cherokee Indians And Their Buried Treasure - Grab it through Amazon!

[Nitric]

So its OK for the tie/carryover to be attached to the letter L? And you think its an L?

After reading the last couple of pages...I think it is too. It sure looks like a tie. Especially in the middle of the piece. If it was the first letter I would think it was decorative. But after reading the thread and looking at the links I think It's very possible it's a tie. I think it's an L or Lo ,I'm still reading. It might be That's what I'm trying to figure out too BCH if they were attached to the letter or not. I guess it would depend on the style of the engraver too.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

DR.ÖTEK Metal Detector, Waterproof Gold Detector, Pinpoint & Terrain Modes, Professional Metal Detector - Grab it through Amazon!

[Bigcypresshunter]

It doesnt look attached because parts of the engraving is worn away but I would have to take a closer look under magnification. Maybe it doesnt matter.

At least someone else is in agreement that its an L. Because it doesnt look like an F to me.

Do you guys think its an uppercasse A or not? It looks spot on to me.

 

[Nitric]

It doesnt look attached because parts of the engraving is worn away but I would have to take a closer look under magnification. Maybe it doesnt matter.

At least someone else is in agreement that its an L. Because it doesnt look like an F to me.

Do you guys think its an uppercasse A or not? It looks spot on to me.


View attachment 1199852 View attachment 1199853

Yes, looks like an A for sure. The first letter in my mind could be an I,T,J and possible an F. But we have to assume It's an T or J.Because that's what would fit. These are the letters I get messed up on because of all the styles. And different ways they were carved.

Heck the more I look at it the more combinations I see or doubt. I think one thing, look at it for awhile and change my mind. Jo-Ann La Hall, Jo-Ann La Hull, To-Ann Lo. Hull, To-Ann L. Hull, etc........My brain hurts!

I didn't go back and look. Can you tell the numbers on the back? Are those a sure thing?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Here is what I see. Its hard to draw a straight line because the A appears to dip a little below and the o may be high but the first letter seems to resemble a J even if it didnt dip. But Im keeping my mind open. And I see a slight curvature on the top of the a or u.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I didn't go back and look. Can you tell the numbers on the back? Are those a sure thing?

In my mind the numbers are a sure thing. But only in my mind. Maybe Bob sees it different.

View attachment 1199863 View attachment 1199864

 

[Nitric]

Here is what I see. Its hard to draw a straight line because the A appears to dip a little below and the o may be high but the first letter seems to resemble a J even if it didnt dip. But Im keeping my mind open. And I see a slight curvature on the top of the a or u.

View attachment 1199862

I mean that could even be an F meaning For Ann. I'll work on trying to get a pic of this piece to show you. It does not fit anything. Until I found the Ad and happened to remember what letters I did have figured out. I would have never found it on my own. NO way.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I mean that could even be an F meaning For Ann. I'll work on trying to get a pic of this piece to show you. It does not fit anything. Until I found the Ad and happened to remember what letters I did have figured out. I would have never found it on my own. NO way.

I wish this site could fix the disappearing attachment problem. If its For Ann then the letter r has worn off. But there is room for it. I question why would they abbreviate an important word like Love on a sweetheart token? Would you abbreviate Love if you were giving this to your sweetheart?

Try to take a pic tomorrow in daylight or try your old scanner.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

If you look real close you may see the slight curve on the lowercase a. It comes to a point because the engraver used less pressure.

 

[Nitric]

J Guedin is the name, the pics are bad. The part goes in a wrist watch and is very small. So, I had to take a pic ,then take a pic of the display of the first camera.(long story) It's a poor picture but might be enough for an Idea of the style writing from that time.Maybe? But it is a name I know that matches the writing. Hope it's clear enough to get some details.Or some ideas. I lost a lot of detail from the last pic to computer for some reason. It wasn't that fussy on my display?

View attachment 1199873 View attachment 1199874

 

[Reed Lukens]

They abbreviated Love because it's a tag. This is simply a tag from a nice gift for his sweetheart. It was attached by a chain probably on a sterling jewelry box or on the flowers that went with the jewelry box or whatever. Because it was the beginning of the tag the " T" could have been dropped below just like the " A" . I would talk to an engraver like at the store " Things Remembered" . That's where we engraved our presents for the last wedding gifts.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

They abbreviated Love because it's a tag. This is simply a tag from a nice gift for his sweetheart. It was attached by a chain probably on a sterling jewelry box or on the flowers that went with the jewelry box or whatever. Because it was the beginning of the tag the " T" could have been dropped below just like the " A" . I would talk to an engraver like at the store " Things Remembered" . That's where we engraved our presents for the last wedding gifts.

How would you explain the the numbers on the back? Any ideas? They are also hand engraved which I thought was curious. I could see the engraving strokes under magnification.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

J Guedin is the name, the pics are bad. The part goes in a wrist watch and is very small. So, I had to take a pic ,then take a pic of the display of the first camera.(long story) It's a poor picture but might be enough for an Idea of the style writing from that time.Maybe? I don't know for sure. I believe the watch is towards the later 1800's. in there somewhere. But it is a name I know that matches the writing. Hope it's clear enough to get some details.Or some ideas. I lost a lot of detail from the last pic to computer for some reason. It wasn't that fussy on my display?

That looks more like a T but its a J?. That would seem to support my argument that its a J. you need to use the close up macro lens setting.

I can pretty much easily read the rest of it but maybe because you already told me.

 

[Reed Lukens]

Lots of numbered pieces out there, probably matches the number on the item. The G might represent gold or simply gift 1506 or it could be the combo for a nice sterling jewelry box.
My best guess is that after being totally twitterpated, Hall, while being totally in Love, went out and got drunk, had his gonads removed, plated in gold, and locked them away in a sterling box for her for life... 1506 is probably the combo of the box so she can pull them out and stomp on them every now and again to show him who really wears the pants in the family, hehe

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Lots of numbered pieces out there, probably matches the number on the item. The G might represent gold or simply gift 1506 or it could be the combo for a nice sterling jewelry box.

I would think that in the mid-20th century these gift tags would have numbers machine stamped on one side and blank on the other for engraving. I have researched a lot of tags and almost all of them have machine stamped numbers on at least one side before engraving. Someone took a lot of time to engrave those block numerals on the backside. But its as good a guess as any. Gift number, combination, phone number, grave number, urn number...

There have been so many different guesses: sweetheart tag, love token, urn tag, coffin tag, grave tag, toe tag, cremation, mourning tag, foundling, wedding etc etc that I am no more closer to solving this than I was years ago. And now some doubt has been put into the lettering.

Breezie is still looking for a surviving relative. Its worth a shot. If the child with the exact same name was born in 1943 and died in 1944, its too much to ignore.


Thanks for your help.

 

[trikikiwi]

How would you explain the the numbers on the back? Any ideas? They are also hand engraved which I thought was curious. I could see the engraving strokes under magnification.

View attachment 1199875

I like Crispin ...cough, cough... I'll start again ... I like Crispin's lateral thinking that it's not a death tag of some sort. I don't necessarily agree with all the theories regarding specific script on the forefront of this most intriguing treasure, but I've had a niggling thought which has finally surfaced, through all the alcohol haze and mist of drugs, and the re-mention of the Naval Tracking Station close to the beach where it was found. Could the reverse engraving be a ship's designation/number? It appears the type of Alpha/Numerical script as I've seen (Singapore 1970) used on US ships.

I have briefly researched this proposition and there are plenty of US based resources to follow up, if anyone was interested. Bit more difficult to do from here.
Eg. Search Strategies for Ships

I will continue to search this potential.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I like Crispin ...cough, cough... I'll start again ... I like Crispin's lateral thinking that it's not a death tag of some sort. I don't necessarily agree with all the theories regarding specific script on the forefront of this most intriguing treasure, but I've had a niggling thought which has finally surfaced, through all the alcohol haze and mist of drugs, and the re-mention of the Naval Tracking Station close to the beach where it was found. Could the reverse engraving be a ship's designation/number? It appears the type of Alpha/Numerical script as I've seen (Singapore 1970) used on US ships.

I have briefly researched this proposition and there are plenty of US based resources to follow up, if anyone was interested. Bit more difficult to do from here.
Eg. Search Strategies for Ships

I will continue to search this potential.

The Naval Tracking Station is right on the beach at the exact location and I think I read it was used for Navy Seal training in WWII. Its now a park. http://www.ircgov.com/Departments/General_Services/Parks/Tracking_Station_Beachfront_Park.htm Yes I think its some kind of official number but I dont understand why its not machine stamped. Anything is possible.

Thanks for the help and the link.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Here is the tracking station beach park parking lot. After 2 successive hurricanes everything was devastated, everyone was evacuated and the police set up roadblocks to catch anyone that didnt live there and the beaches were closed. We tried half a day to reach the beach. We had to sneak past the blockade, hop a fence and run to get to the beach. Everyone was trying to reach the beach lol. It was a mad bunch of treasure seekers. Once you reached the beach you were safe. After all that, I actually left the rod for my MD in the car and I had to fasten one out of a tree branch. The Treasure Coast is a beautiful place.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Im gonna search that link tomorrow.

 

[trikikiwi]

I'm an amateur war historian as well as an army brat. I read Military History, for relaxation. Literally, this afternoon I just finished reading I Sank The Bismark, by John Moffat. But I'm only guessing when I also suggest, the reverse engraving might be an Airplane designation.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I am not directing this at anybody specifically and it probably should have its own thread, but this is an observation I have made:

I grew up in an Academic environment where we started with a "null hypothesis" and then attempted to reject it. Basically stated, we assumed our hypothesis was false until we could find enough evidence to support within a predefined statistical probability that it was true. This was defined by both the "power" of the study and the degree of certainty, most studies use a 95% or greater chance based on statistical data gathered.

Hence, when we were writing papers would we conclude that we either "Rejected the null hypothesis" of "Failed to reject the null hypothesis." If we failed to reject the null hypothesis then that meant the study turned up nothing. If we rejected the null hypothesis then that meant we found a "correlation" between the hypothesis and the variables. We would then criticize our own studies to point out basis, confounding variables, and other outlaying interference's. Irregardless, we did not use the word "causation." A study could never prove causation but only show a correlation.

It appears that most people on this site work the opposite. They come up with a theory that shows a cause and then reject all evidence that opposes it. This type of thinking fails at its very core. It is a simple matter of inductive and deductive reasoning. No matter how many white swans one person sees (a 100, a 1000, a million) it does not mean the next swan one sees may not be black.

Do you understand this or do I need to break it down into Layman's terms.

Ha Ha I just quickly read this but you seem to not be taking your own advice. Example: I always assume silver found is NOT Spanish treasure, then I look for enough evidence to support it. In your case, I hadnt found enough evidence but I was trying, on your behalf.

Crispin your a smarter man than I give you credit for. Now try and follow your own advice.

We have been making IDs on this forum long before you got here. I take exception to the comment that we are a failure or we are doing something wrong. I think your comment is way out of line and unfounded. Unless I misunderstood, you not only insulted me but you insulted the entire forum.

Well thats my 2 cents.