Subject: Oil – You Should Be Sitting Down When You Read This!

[Limitool]

Here's a real "catch 22" about oil and our Govt. I worked in auto production for 32 years starting in 75'. Every year or couple of years our Govt. would mandate that automakers fleet of vehicles get a certain MPG. Now this NEVER goes down it always goes UP. So the Govt. tells the automakers what they must produce on an end result. Then the Govt. pushes electric vehicles or hybrid ones to boot. And while all this is going on the price of gas keeps going up or stays high.

So while the Govt. mandates higher and higher MPG's and pushes electric - hybrid vehicles the oil companies sell less and less fuel. This in turn leads to less tax revenue p/gallon of fuel sold going into the coffers. It won't be long before folks who drive electric and hybrid vehicles will be charged a "special fee" when they register their vehicle each year to make up for the lost revenue. What good does it do to buy a vehicle that gets 45-50 MPG to save on fuel costs when you have to pay for the savings up front. You watch.... IT'S COMING!!!!

 

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[Frankn]

Here's a real "catch 22" about oil and our Govt. I worked in auto production for 32 years starting in 75'. Every year or couple of years our Govt. would mandate that automakers fleet of vehicles get a certain MPG. Now this NEVER goes down it always goes UP. So the Govt. tells the automakers what they must produce on an end result. Then the Govt. pushes electric vehicles or hybrid ones to boot. And while all this is going on the price of gas keeps going up or stays high.

So while the Govt. mandates higher and higher MPG's and pushes electric - hybrid vehicles the oil companies sell less and less fuel. This in turn leads to less tax revenue p/gallon of fuel sold going into the coffers. It won't be long before folks who drive electric and hybrid vehicles will be charged a "special fee" when they register their vehicle each year to make up for the lost revenue. What good does it do to buy a vehicle that gets 45-50 MPG to save on fuel costs when you have to pay for the savings up front. You watch.... IT'S COMING!!!!

It always gets worse! I can remember when you registered your car just once in some states, got tags that last forever. Can you imagine the cost saving if you didn't have to continually register your car.

A note on oil source for USA. Most of our oil presently comes from Canada And Mexico, not offshore.
Frank...-

 

[dirtscratcher]

Counterpoint:

Bakken formation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

tl;dr version - there are nowhere near 500 billion barrels of oil in the Bakken, and they're currently drilling and pumping out what's there like crazy. To make matters worse, most of what's there cannot be extracted with current technology.

The Bakken formation is only about half of the oil there. Google the Three Forks formation it is another formation below the Bakken which has less oil but is easier to recover and has as much recoverable oil as the Bakken. The Three Forks formation is estimated at 20 billion barrels of which 2 billion is recoverable.

 

[Limitool]

"It always gets worse! I can remember when you registered your car just once in some states, got tags that last forever. Can you imagine the cost saving if you didn't have to continually register your car."

Damn Frank.... we could go on and on and on doing away with yearly "new" tax revenue's throughout history. Your statement above was a HUGE ONE which created a lot of new revenue for one example only. And YOUR RIGHT!!!! But watch what's coming up on the gas tax for all or new registration fee's if you own a "certain" model of car. So when someone does what the Govt. suggests.... NOW they have to pay more because they did.... It's a merry go round.

 

[Dave Rishar]

The Bakken formation is only about half of the oil there. Google the Three Forks formation it is another formation below the Bakken which has less oil but is easier to recover and has as much recoverable oil as the Bakken. The Three Forks formation is estimated at 20 billion barrels of which 2 billion is recoverable.

That's still nowhere near 500 billion barrels, though.

When we consider that America used just short of 7 billion barrels of oil in 2013, both of these sources start to look less impressive.

 

[old digger]

*Just my two cents worth.*

With all the electronic and computer science that is in the new cars why can't they program these new vehicles to get a much higher miles-per-gallon rating? But, of coarse the oil companies are possibly manipulating the auto companies to keep the MPG as low as possible.

And another thing, why can't they attach an alternator to one of the wheels on those electric cars so that they can recharge the battery while the vehicle is in motion? That way there is no need to recharge the battery every so many miles.

 

[mikeraydj]

I am all for making the U.S. as independent from foreign oil as possible. Having said that, I think that the new technology that is being referred to is called fracking.
There have been many stories coming out of Oklahoma I believe that say that since fracking has been used there the seismic activity in the state has greatly increased. Now the fields in North Dakota are not far from Montana and Wyoming, Both already seismic states and both also have oil. Yellowstone park being the biggest seismic area. What kind of affect will this have on further destabilizing a already shaky area? Yellowstone was a super volcano at one time and scientists believe this area could blow again. Will this hasten this process that would be catastrophic to the entire region? I think more study of fracking should be done before we mess with such a volatile area.

 

[Dave Rishar]

*Just my two cents worth.*

With all the electronic and computer science that is in the new cars why can't they program these new vehicles to get a much higher miles-per-gallon rating? But, of coarse the oil companies are possibly manipulating the auto companies to keep the MPG as low as possible.

And another thing, why can't they attach an alternator to one of the wheels on those electric cars so that they can recharge the battery while the vehicle is in motion? That way there is no need to recharge the battery every so many miles.

Due to the nature of written communications, I can't tell whether or not you're joking. I'll assume that you are until you tell me otherwise.

 

[Limitool]

*Just my two cents worth.*

With all the electronic and computer science that is in the new cars why can't they program these new vehicles to get a much higher miles-per-gallon rating? But, of coarse the oil companies are possibly manipulating the auto companies to keep the MPG as low as possible.

And another thing, why can't they attach an alternator to one of the wheels on those electric cars so that they can recharge the battery while the vehicle is in motion? That way there is no need to recharge the battery every so many miles.

Are you assuming there is no trickle charge going back into the battery?

 

[old digger]

Seriously. And yes, there is a charge going back to the battery. Most vehicles now are front wheel drive and the rear wheels are free and independent. What's wrong with attaching an alternator/generator to one or both rear wheels to regenerate the ion battery that they have in the new electric cars.

 

[Muddyhandz]

Environmentalists, liberals, and tree-huggers? Really?
C'mon people! Let me give you a briefing in capitalism 101.
It's called supply and demand. Let's compare diamonds. By no means are diamonds scarce.
Debeers has oodles of them sunken off market. They only release a small amount every year to achieve something really important......
It's called SCARCITY....a big component of "Supply and demand." Manipulation of the market. Profit for the shareholders.
Every time the gas prices go up, I hear some B.S. excuse that the storm damaged the off-shore rigs or the recent fighting Iraq, blah, blah.
If the average person knew that there's more oil in N. America than anywhere, then how could they make up bogus reasons for raising the prices?
Blaming the entities listed in my opening statement is exactly what the big oil companies want you to do.
The oil companies are ones jerking us around! Then of course, the government has to tax the hell out of it.
Sorry, I tried my hardest not to get political but it's a loaded topic!
Cheers,
Dave.

 

[Limitool]

Seriously. And yes, there is a charge going back to the battery. Most vehicles now are front wheel drive and the rear wheels are free and independent. What's wrong with attaching an alternator/generator to one or both rear wheels to regenerate the ion battery that they have in the new electric cars.

Digger.... I totally understand what your saying but it's probably not "that simple" or the trade off is on the negative side hence the electrical plug. Anything dealing with the rear wheels/tires are in a hostile environment at all times. I've often wondered why anything that turns, wheels, crank, axles, fan, trans, etc.... couldn't drive an introvertor (110 generator) and regenerate the battery. Obviously the trade off on resistance and the power output doesn't make it worth it. I often wondered this watching the electric lift trucks and vehicles that the auto companies utilized. Put a gear box in to up the RPM's and have it self charging.... but it's not that simple in reality.

 

[releventchair]

Once we are moving in an electric car why not have a ram air wind tunnel designed into it full length to spin a turbine at rear? A prefilter and filter should reduce hostilities enough. Head pressure would be the part of engineers but turbine size could vary too. Heck put a turbine on the roof or rear deck.

 

[old digger]

Yes, but wasn't that why the alternator is used for? If the rear wheels were rotating on a free turning axle shaft, and the shaft turned a gear or belt that turned the generator. Why wouldn't that work?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Please keep politics out of thread....

 

[old digger]

Something like this.

 

[Frankn]

OK, for those of you who are not into mechanical or electronic engineering, here goes.
On a regular car, your battery is only used to start it, then the alternator takes over.

On a pure electric car, the battery supplies all the power. When you break. the drive electric motor becomes an alternator and puts some charge back into the battery.

Hybrids vary in operation. Some switch between gas and electric drive and others just drive with electric and the gas engine is just hooked to a generating unit.

You can't hook an altenator to the back wheels to charge while you are driving with the front. because this is like stealing from Peter to pay Paul. The energy you are getting from the back is being taken from the front in extra drive energy required.

I tried to keep it simple! Frank...-

 

[Limitool]

Yes, but wasn't that why the alternator is used for? If the rear wheels were rotating on a free turning axle shaft, and the shaft turned a gear or belt that turned the generator. Why wouldn't that work?

I understand your point.... (and agree). But the logic is to simple not to have been thought of. Hybrids can recharge their large batteries because of the engines H.P. output. But obviously a balance cannot be struck yet on a totally electric vehicle. Apparently the needed output cannot be replaced quick enough or the trade off is too great. But if you didn't care what the vehicle looked like something could probably be done to do this. I've wondered this since the late 70's on electric vehicles.

 

[Red James Cash]

Yes, but wasn't that why the alternator is used for? If the rear wheels were rotating on a free turning axle shaft, and the shaft turned a gear or belt that turned the generator. Why wouldn't that work?

One problem that would come into play would be the suspension.The charging unit would have to move with any wheel movement of the rear tire.

 

[Limitool]

One problem that would come into play would be the suspension.The charging unit would have to move with any wheel movement of the rear tire.

This is true but that could/may be worked around with an idler pulley or spring perhaps. But this is such a hostile environment to have something work for long properly in. Rain, animals, rocks, MUD... it's just a horrible environment... period.