Superstition People, Places, & Things.

[somehiker]

As a guess, I would say an alloy similar to that used for bell casting.
The patina looks the same to me, whereas I would think a cast iron object would show rust pitting and more in the way of imperfections.

 

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[sdcfia]

The artifact appears to exhibit a wide range of symbols which are difficult to make out.

Looks like Atlas the Titan.

 

[somehiker]

Looks like Atlas the Titan.

View attachment 1269528

How so ?
Was Atlas nailed to a cross as well ?

 

[sdcfia]

How so ?
Was Atlas nailed to a cross as well ?

How so? Here's a side-by-side. Strikingly artistic similarity, certainly visually, but also symbolically.

Perhaps the creator of the artwork was sophisticated enough to draw a visual comparison between Jesus' punishment and Atlas' punishment - both heroes bearing the weight of the heavens following an earthly spiritual conflict. The players and venues certainly change with the times, but the archetypes and myths seem to remain similar or the same.

 

[sgtfda]

So you know your way around the mountain. Why is this location important?

 

[somehiker]

How so? Here's a side-by-side. Strikingly artistic similarity, certainly visually, but also symbolically.

Perhaps the creator of the artwork was sophisticated enough to draw a visual comparison between Jesus' punishment and Atlas' punishment - both heroes bearing the weight of the heavens following an earthly spiritual conflict. The players and venues certainly change with the times, but the archetypes and myths seem to remain similar or the same.

View attachment 1269692

While both artists were obviously very talented, I cannot agree with the basis for your hypothesis that the person who made the crucifix had such thoughts in mind.
Atlas was accorded his punishment by Zeus, the King of Grecian Gods, whereas Christ and a number of other venerated souls were convicted and executed by men on earth .

Hal:

Unfortunately, the barrel obscures what is at the top of the casting. There may be a means by which to hang it up there.
While I also considered the possibility that the lower part could have been used as a base, there doesn't seem to be any way by which to attach the two parts in that configuration. That portion of the lower part which appears to extend behind the bottom of the upper part may actually be the attachment point, but for display as shown in the photo.
That's it was cast in two parts may be related to my own hypothesis that the artwork relates somehow to both Christianity ( upper) and Islam ( lower) .
If so, the "U" is the letter "N", which according to a Muslim co-worker I've asked, also means "end", and the three rectangular parts on the lower part refer to the "trilogy" of Islam....Koran/Siri/ Hadith.

"
The Trilogy contains three books—

The Koran is what Mohammed said that the angel Gabriel said that Allah said. But the Koran does not contain enough guidance for one to be a Muslim. The Koran repeatedly says that all of the world should imitate Mohammed in every way. Mohammed’s words and deeds are called the Sunna. The Sunna is found in two different texts—the Sira and Hadith.
The first source of the Sunna is the Sira which is Mohammed’s biography. The most authoritative version is by Ibn Ishaq.
The other source of the Sunna is the Hadith, the Traditions of Mohammed. "

My initial thoughts on the symbolism above the corpus, is that it may represent anointing oil, almond perhaps....or a chalice of some kind.

 

[somehiker]

View attachment 1270519
So you know your way around the mountain. Why is this location important?

Because the location is shown on a map ?
If so, important to who ?

Regards:Wayne

 

[sdcfia]

While both artists were obviously very talented, I cannot agree with the basis for your hypothesis that the person who made the crucifix had such thoughts in mind.
Atlas was accorded his punishment by Zeus, the King of Grecian Gods, whereas Christ and a number of other venerated souls were convicted and executed by men on earth.

Yeah, the powers that be always seem to prevail, whether they're gods or people. It's hard enough to keep all the saints, gods, planets and constellations in their proper venues, let alone try to figure out what some crazy Latin artist was thinking. Catholic churches are adorned by some pretty bizarre items in the Americas, substituting indigenous characters for various saints. The Mediterranean Basin too. Too bad the piece you posted was lost.

 

[somehiker]

A great topic to write about and I don't mind this thread morphing into a conversation about your photograph. I would like to send it (your photograph) to a few academics with your permission? I can't find another example and don't mind asking for help. If you have a high res, would you send a copy?

The photo I posted is the only one I have, but cropped a bit to enable posting. The part removed only shows more of the dollar bill covered wall behind and to the right side of the bar. it should be good enough to send to someone who might be able to give a better idea as to who and when, so feel free to do so.

 

[somehiker]

Yeah, the powers that be always seem to prevail, whether they're gods or people. It's hard enough to keep all the saints, gods, planets and constellations in their proper venues, let alone try to figure out what some crazy Latin artist was thinking. Catholic churches are adorned by some pretty bizarre items in the Americas, substituting indigenous characters for various saints. The Mediterranean Basin too. Too bad the piece you posted was lost.

There are similar examples viewable online which also suggest an abstract thought process commonly at work within the indigenous artists who created them.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=indi...VhuIMKHYKrCxUQsAQIHg&biw=1160&bih=596#imgrc=_

Bizarre yes, at least to our sensibilities, but obviously they are wired differently than we, who see things from a European/Mediterranean/Middle Eastern perspective and understanding of our collective political and religious history.

I'm only assuming it was lost....presumably in the fire.
I haven't come across any other photos of it at least....or mention of it.
Kinda hoping someone who sees this might know where it is now, if it's still around.
I'd certainly like to get a closer look at it.

 

[somehiker]

somehiker,
I just noticed under magnification that the base has for legs. I thought that it had two. That changes everything because I initially thought that the two (actually 4) legs were Christ's feet. That and the fact that they were cast separately (the crucifix complete with feet), might suggest that we are looking at two unique objects displayed as one. A crucifix and something animal related, decorative or practical. What about a cast bell stirrup?

I had done the same Hal, and agree that there seems to be at least one additional support behind the two at the front. I don't see this as animal related, or human either for that matter. That the open space between forms an arch, and what looks like toes might be script of some kind, might be significant to the whole however.
I had considered the possibility that the "U" shaped portion could be a representation of a crucible or salamander, as used for gold/silver refining and casting.
But the extra details seem to eliminate this idea.

 

[sdcfia]

Bizarre yes, at least to our sensibilities, but obviously they are wired differently than we, who see things from a European/Mediterranean/Middle Eastern perspective and understanding of our collective political and religious history.

It's widespread all right. Catholic church art is a downer, even scary. Hang-dog. Below are Taos NM, Puebla MX, Paris and Rennes le Chateau. Thankfully the Pope's Palace in Avignon had one of the only non-weeping Madonnas I've seen. She took the edge off.








(Asmodeus free use by others)

 

[somehiker]

It's widespread all right. Catholic church art is a downer, even scary. Hang-dog. Below are Taos NM, Puebla MX, Paris and Rennes le Chateau. Thankfully the Pope's Palace in Avignon had one of the only non-weeping Madonnas I've seen. She took the edge off.

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(Asmodeus free use by others)

View attachment 1270859

Fear and revulsion is grease for the wheels of salvation I guess.
I suspect political cartoonists are professionals of the same school of thought.

 

[releventchair]

 

[sgtfda]

I asked the three wise men in my old boys network. We will see.

 

[sgtfda]

I can now answer all those "Iron Cross" questions. Including the history and a possible location. That and better photos.

 

[releventchair]

I can now answer all those "Iron Cross" questions. Including the history and a possible location. That and better photos.

French? Or Spanish processional?

 

[sgtfda]

Upon reflection as per the request to ignore all things Hal I won't comment further. My source is also aware of this request.

 

[releventchair]

Upon reflection as per the request to ignore all things Hal I won't comment further. My source is also aware of this request.

Seen that comin.
First guess on item was a Russian Orthodox influence , but likelihood of arrival inland said not enough potential to pursue.

 

[sgtfda]

Seen that comin.
First guess on item was a Russian Orthodox influence , but likelihood of arrival inland said not enough potential to pursue.

Chair. You have a interest in this issue I can pass on to you the who what where and when . I don't mind sharing with friends. My source is on lockdown concerning this subject now.