Superstition People, Places, & Things.

[Weaversneedle]

Chair. You have a interest in this issue I can pass on to you the who what where and when . I don't mind sharing with friends. My source is on lockdown concerning this subject now.

Frank, I would be interested in compensating you for that info also. Send me a pm and we can discuss it. Thank you

 

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[releventchair]

Chair. You have a interest in this issue I can pass on to you the who what where and when . I don't mind sharing with friends. My source is on lockdown concerning this subject now.

Mighty kind of you.
But if you tell me then I'll know.
I'd rather you sort it out as far as you want first , and decide where to go with it and leave me out of it till it is a done deal.
Then I won't be suspected of any leaks.
I'm aware of being careful of what I look for in case it is found.
This item is only a curiosity to me, though appreciated for it's creators result.

 

[sgtfda]

I have no interest in it. I'll message you my phone #

 

[somehiker]

somehiker,
Look at that, now you know where to find everything you ever wanted to learn about your photograph and I get to keep my Lopez.
Life is funny that way.

It can be that way.
I'll see if anything shows up in my mailbox.

 

[Azquester]

BTW, I sent your image to two experts last night. Hopefully, we should have some type of professional opinion early next week. The rest of the discovery story (the who & when) will find its way to you eventually.

You're thinking just as I am Hal.

I sent the Image to the Midwestern Epigraphic Society for evaluation from their "Team" of Archaeologists. Great bunch of people. Glad to have been a participating member of the group. I have some of my work on there. Old stuff nothing new.

Frank, You have info for sale?

I'm a bit short on cash...

Call me after Ryan's show comes out I love after Christmas Info Sales!

 

[Azquester]

I just received the response from Midwestern Epigraphic Society.

Here's the reply:
Censored


It looks to be art deco revival possibly soap stone?

Since it's long gone we really won't know that answer. Just another mystery. Sorry about the post I realized after I posted it that the information was as important as the Stone Maps info you guys are holding on to.

Sorry

 

[somehiker]

I just received the response from Midwestern Epigraphic Society.

Here's the reply:
Censored


It looks to be art deco revival possibly soap stone?

Since it's long gone we really won't know that answer. Just another mystery. Sorry about the post I realized after I posted it that the information was as important as the Stone Maps info you guys are holding on to.

Sorry

I've had a couple of good friends flesh out the background a bit more for me.....
Waiting to see if there is more to come though.

Art Deco Revival was 1980's.
The "cast iron" crucifix was found several decades before that period.
"Art Deco" of 1920's and 1930's or the 1890-1910 "Art Nouveau" period are possible, but I'm still inclined towards an Indigenous artist from the Spanish Colonial era.
Which doesn't mean it's connected to any of the popular legends. It could have a history all of it's own, based on the displacement of Mexicans in NM and AZ during and after the US expansionism phases. Various possessions, especially bulky or heavy items, were often abandoned during long journeys to new homes.

 

[sdcfia]

I've had a couple of good friends flesh out the background a bit more for me.....
Waiting to see if there is more to come though.

Art Deco Revival was 1980's.
The "cast iron" crucifix was found several decades before that period.
"Art Deco" of 1920's and 1930's or the 1890-1910 "Art Nouveau" period are possible, but I'm still inclined towards an Indigenous artist from the Spanish Colonial era.
Which doesn't mean it's connected to any of the popular legends. It could have a history all of it's own, based on the displacement of Mexicans in NM and AZ during and after the US expansionism phases. Various possessions, especially bulky or heavy items, were often abandoned during long journeys to new homes.

You won't find much evidence of such a displacement in New Mexico due to Anglo incursions. Arizona - much more likely. Even so, it seems unlikely that a crucifix would be abandoned by a Mexican family forced to relocate. It's also interesting that the artifact ended up in a saloon.

 

[somehiker]

You won't find much evidence of such a displacement in New Mexico due to Anglo incursions. Arizona - much more likely. Even so, it seems unlikely that a crucifix would be abandoned by a Mexican family forced to relocate. It's also interesting that the artifact ended up in a saloon.

"It's also interesting that the artifact ended up in a saloon." "

It's more restaurant, than a serious saloon.....closes at 6pm I think.
Until the newer General Store was opened next to it, it also was the gift shop and bookstore.
Good food and service at reasonable prices.

A bit of a museum in itself, there are plenty of old curiosities and stuffed critters displayed everywhere, so no lack of distractions to fuel just about any conversation.
Tortilla Flat was originally established as a supply camp-way station during construction of the road through the mountains for the construction of the Roosevelt Dam.
It was later sold to private parties, one of which was the finder. Just one more conversation piece added to the collection I guess.

 

[cw0909]

somehiker, hope your inclined to post high res img of the crucifix
its prob a cooler piece in high res
im thinking of it as an anchor cross, since releventchair posted
st. marys

 

[somehiker]

somehiker, hope your inclined to post high res img of the crucifix
its prob a cooler piece in high res
im thinking of it as an anchor cross, since releventchair posted
st. marys

If you are talking about this post by releventchair.....

View attachment 1270996

View attachment 1270997

....there may very well be a link between the "anchor" cross 1st-3rd century AD, the coin shown in his post, which looks Merovingian



"CROCE ANCORATA INCISA IN UNA MONETA DEL RE MEROVINGIO DAGOBERTO"

, and the "anchor-like" crucifix on the church, which depicts Christ on the cross, attended by Mother Mary and Mary Magdelene.

 

[somehiker]

cw:

The photo I posted is the only one I have.
There may be others which are higher resolution.

rc:

Were you hinting at other interests in regard to this cast iron crucifix ?
What do you think the three dots on the coin represent ?
How about the three rectangles on this crucifix .... related somehow ??
Perhaps a history and faith based on bloodlines and controversial gospels...

 

[sdcfia]

....there may very well be a link between the "anchor" cross 1st-3rd century AD, the coin shown in his post, which looks Merovingian

View attachment 1272135

"CROCE ANCORATA INCISA IN UNA MONETA DEL RE MEROVINGIO DAGOBERTO"

, and the "anchor-like" crucifix on the church, which depicts Christ on the cross, attended by Mother Mary and Mary Magdelene.

That's a nice find, hiker. Sweet biscuits (as Poncho would say). If you like the Superstition Mountains conspiracies, you'll really have fun with the Merovingians. All roads lead to Rennes le Chateau. Well, at the end, only this one.

 

[Azquester]

I've had a couple of good friends flesh out the background a bit more for me.....
Waiting to see if there is more to come though.

Art Deco Revival was 1980's.
The "cast iron" crucifix was found several decades before that period.
"Art Deco" of 1920's and 1930's or the 1890-1910 "Art Nouveau" period are possible, but I'm still inclined towards an Indigenous artist from the Spanish Colonial era.
Which doesn't mean it's connected to any of the popular legends. It could have a history all of it's own, based on the displacement of Mexicans in NM and AZ during and after the US expansionism phases. Various possessions, especially bulky or heavy items, were often abandoned during long journeys to new homes.

Mayan Revival period 1910-1930's. Or possibly and incense burner. It may be a mine shrine depicting "Christ be with you" as you descend into a U shaped shaft? I always thought it was El Tio as the protector of underground men in mines. I guess you could use both powers of good and evil for that. They needed all the help they could get back then.

 

[somehiker]

Mayan Revival period 1910-1930's. Or possibly and incense burner. It may be a mine shrine depicting "Christ be with you" as you descend into a U shaped shaft? I always thought it was El Tio as the protector of underground men in mines. I guess you could use both powers of good and evil for that. They needed all the help they could get back then.

One of the four stories I have been told so far claims the crucifix was found in a "Jesuit" mine somewhere out there.
Another has it being found by a SRP power line crew in an old Mexican shrine down towards Canyon Lake.....who traded it for a case of beer at the saloon.
That it was made as a movie prop for " Lust For Gold", and given as a gift to the proprietors of TF after the filming was done.
Number four said it was found in a "Peralta" mine, up high on the south west corner of Malapais Mtn.

I reviewed my copy of "Lust for Gold" the other night....didn't see the casting in any of the scenes though.

Number two makes some sense, since the surveyors and work crews erecting the power poles and lines crossed a lot of areas, down low and up high, that others ( including Dutch hunters) may have avoided or bypassed. I can also imagine a thirsty crew at the end of a hard day out there, stopping at the saloon for a brew afterward. Mexican miners setting up some kind of shrine is believable as well. As I recall, other artifacts and signs of mining operations (arrastres) were found at Mormon Flat.

 

[somehiker]

That's a nice find, hiker. Sweet biscuits (as Poncho would say). If you like the Superstition Mountains conspiracies, you'll really have fun with the Merovingians. All roads lead to Rennes le Chateau. Well, at the end, only this one.

View attachment 1272269

It's all a history I was very familiar with long before I ever hiked the Sups.

 

[somehiker]

So would I, Hal.
Although it appears that it was intended as an altar piece, the upper half might have a means by which it could be hung separately, or used as an icon for a processional.
The back side may have some indication of it's place of origin and/or author.
Perhaps someone will be kind enough to supply additional photos.

 

[Weaversneedle]

So would I, Hal.
Although it appears that it was intended as an altar piece, the upper half might have a means by which it could be hung separately, or used as an icon for a processional.
The back side may have some indication of it's place of origin and/or author.
Perhaps someone will be kind enough to supply additional photos.

Guys, I wouldn't get too excited over this thing . Remember the stone maps? Chances are this thing if fake also

 

[somehiker]

Guys, I wouldn't get too excited over this thing . Remember the stone maps? Chances are this thing if fake also

It's a cast iron crucifix, not a map....so what's it a "fake" of ?
And why ?

Some of us are curious about it, but I wouldn't say "excited".

 

[Weaversneedle]

It's a cast iron crucifix, not a map....so what's it a "fake" of ?
And why ?

Some of us are curious about it, but I wouldn't say "excited".

Somehiker, anything can be faked, reproduced or created.