Symbols on the (a) "Noss" Map

[EEx]

My day job pays too much and I need motivation.
Get me back out there by posting your theories about the symbols on this map.
Better yet, pictures!
I guess we can discuss origins of the map, which can be found as the inside book jacket of one of the Gold House books, but I'm interested much more in the symbology.

 

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[EEx]

I'll get us started. The 7's and backwards 7's seem prominent on the map.
They also are prominent in treasure lore in general.

Here's one from a few months back in the Caballos.

Bummer that is does not match with the location of any shown on the map... unless my estimation of the map geography is Wrong, of course. But, it is in a good spot, in full view of a very prominent landmark.

 

[DizzyDigger]

EEx, I've never had a thing to do with maps and symbols, but I'll have a go at it. Just keep in mind I don't know diddly about this stuff.

I chopped the map into pieces that were easier to manage in terms of content. My thoughts under the pics.

The cross with a circle above is a symbol for Ankh:

"The ankh is an ancient Egyptian symbol which symbolizes the many aspects of life, including physical life, eternal life, immortality, death, and reincarnation. The symbol is a teardrop-shaped hoop with a cross connected directly below it, to represent the sun making its path upward and over the horizon."

Being that it's in a circle with lines radiating out, this may represent the rising or setting Sun. The figure(s) on the right make me think of the Sun rising over hills/boulders, but I don't know what the spiral circle is about as there are quite a few references.

I think the Sun image at the bottom of the map represents sunset, so the bottom section is to the west, and the upper section is to the east. It could also be reversed.

Looks like a person climbing our of the top of a teepee, two people sitting on a helicopter rotor, and what looks like teepee on a platform with a wheel in front. Add a wheel in back and ya got a Flintstone mobile. All surrounded by multiple symbols. There's a whole lot going on there.

Clueless. The circle with the single dot looks like the eye of a creature who's body is to the right of the eye. The boat anchor looking thing also looks like a bunny nose.

Latin calculus?

Interesting map...lots going on.

 

[sdcfia]

First, oriente yourself

 

[Mackaydon]

MY WAG is the cirular feature in Santa Rita is the open pit Chino copper mine; production started in 1910.
Don in SoCal

 

[Mackaydon]

The anchorage at Caballo is now part of the Caballo Reservoir.
Don in SoCal

 

[Mackaydon]

If it's open, Wsmr (White Sands Missile Range) S Route 306 will get you into the Hembrillo area.
Don in SoCal

 

[sdcfia]

I believe All Things Noss re Hembrillo Basin/Victorio Peak are fake (Caballos somewhat), very likely including this map. That said, many of the symbols on the map can be found in the form of rock carvings. The green labeled areas shown in Post #4 are where they can be found.

 

[EEx]

EEx, I've never had a thing to do with maps and symbols, but I'll have a go at it. Just keep in mind I don't know diddly about this stuff.

I chopped the map into pieces that were easier to manage in terms of content. My thoughts under the pics.

View attachment 2142156

The cross with a circle above is a symbol for Ankh:

"The ankh is an ancient Egyptian symbol which symbolizes the many aspects of life, including physical life, eternal life, immortality, death, and reincarnation. The symbol is a teardrop-shaped hoop with a cross connected directly below it, to represent the sun making its path upward and over the horizon."

Being that it's in a circle with lines radiating out, this may represent the rising or setting Sun. The figure(s) on the right make me think of the Sun rising over hills/boulders, but I don't know what the spiral circle is about as there are quite a few references.

I think the Sun image at the bottom of the map represents sunset, so the bottom section is to the west, and the upper section is to the east. It could also be reversed.

View attachment 2142157

Looks like a person climbing our of the top of a teepee, two people sitting on a helicopter rotor, and what looks like teepee on a platform with a wheel in front. Add a wheel in back and ya got a Flintstone mobile. All surrounded by multiple symbols. There's a whole lot going on there.

View attachment 2142158

Clueless. The circle with the single dot looks like the eye of a creature who's body is to the right of the eye. The boat anchor looking thing also looks like a bunny nose.

View attachment 2142159

Latin calculus?

Interesting map...lots going on.

I think that the Ankh may also be associated with Venus and the metal Copper. Not sure where I got that, but I have a lot of books.

The circle with a single dot is solidly a symbol for the Sun and Gold. Even textbooks in aerospace engineering still use the circle dot symbol for the Sun.

Problem with all this is that the meaning of the symbols is a bit in the eye of the beholder. But, there's probably some clues lurking around in trying to decipher them. Especially if you can find those symbols out in the field in petroglyphs or monuments or geographic features.

Thanks for the analysis!

 

[EEx]

First, orient yourself
View attachment 2142189

Hi SDCFIA,
I think that we are in general agreement on the geography.

One exception is Santa Rita. Seems like it would be off the map on the other side of Cookes.

That little swoop on the map looks amazingly like Cookes as viewed from the top of the Caballos.

Could what you've labeled as Santa Rita be the San Mateos, Hermosa area, Sal Se Puede, etc. instead? Is there something that makes it distinct to Santa Rita (i.e., the two dots being the twin peaks up back of your little burg?)

Also, could what you've labeled as the Organs be something like the Rincon or Dona Ana's?

Any idea as to why the ankh appears in two locations?

Thanks.

 

[EEx]

MY WAG is the cirular feature in Santa Rita is the open pit Chino copper mine; production started in 1910.
Don in SoCal

So that would make the basis of the map fairly modern if that's the case.

 

[EEx]

If it's open, Wsmr (White Sands Missile Range) S Route 306 will get you into the Hembrillo area.
Don in SoCal

Definitely not open. All access to Hembrillo and the basin itself is off-limits, with the exception of occasional history tours associated with the US Cavaly-Apache battle there, or sometimes for plant-lookers.

 

[EEx]

I believe All Things Noss re Hembrillo Basin/Victorio Peak are fake (Caballos somewhat), very likely including this map. That said, many of the symbols on the map can be found in the form of rock carvings. The green labeled areas shown in Post #4 are where they can be found.
View attachment 2142221

Ah, you semi-answered by ankh question here.

"Mark of possession" and "All the stars in heaven" are new to me.

I was looking at the "+" symbol as being related to silver. Not sure where I got that idea.

I sort of thought the spiral glyphs just mean "petroglyphs here" . A lot of other people seem to like to make them "go up" or "go down" based on the spiral direction.

On that 68, the symbol in the presumed key has little dots on the end of the cross bars which are not on the corresponding map symbol. May be a clue or may just be an inconsistency or could be my imagination.

There are 5 down arrows by my count, but only two roman numeral (assumed, not demonstrated) next to them.

The "half-circle dot" symbols I think of more as a cave symbol, particularly in a hill.

Thanks for the analysis!

 

[sdcfia]

Hi SDCFIA,
I think that we are in general agreement on the geography.

One exception is Santa Rita. Seems like it would be off the map on the other side of Cookes.

That little swoop on the map looks amazingly like Cookes as viewed from the top of the Caballos.

Could what you've labeled as Santa Rita be the San Mateos, Hermosa area, Sal Se Puede, etc. instead? Is there something that makes it distinct to Santa Rita (i.e., the two dots being the twin peaks up back of your little burg?)

Also, could what you've labeled as the Organs be something like the Rincon or Dona Ana's?

Any idea as to why the ankh appears in two locations?

Thanks.

I don't believe the map is either drawn to an accurate scale or oriented exactly to true compass bearings, although in general works OK for all the various entries. In my opinion, the map is schematic. That's why I identified "Santa Rita" in the lower left corner.

Actually, I should have said "Santa Rita/Pinos Altos", since those two sites are close to each other and share treasure legends. Same goes for the "Organs" - lots of old legends there. But, to be fair, there are also legends in the "Franklins", a small range south of the Organs overlooking El Paso/Juarez.

The ankh is a symbol found at numerous of the "Mystery Glyph" sites, allegedly created by the "KGC". https://mysteryglyphs.com/ These sites are often associated with treasure caches. None of this is proven, but there are lots of treasure legends found near these glyphs, including those found on the Noss map. Noss is alleged by some to have had intel on a KGC cache site in the Caballos, and possibly elsewhere. You have to be cautious believing anything Noss is credited with, because he was a known serial liar, jailbird, grifter, swindler and allegedly, murderer.

 

[sdcfia]

Ah, you semi-answered by ankh question here.

"Mark of possession" and "All the stars in heaven" are new to me.

I was looking at the "+" symbol as being related to silver. Not sure where I got that idea.

I sort of thought the spiral glyphs just mean "petroglyphs here" . A lot of other people seem to like to make them "go up" or "go down" based on the spiral direction.

On that 68, the symbol in the presumed key has little dots on the end of the cross bars which are not on the corresponding map symbol. May be a clue or may just be an inconsistency or could be my imagination.

There are 5 down arrows by my count, but only two roman numeral (assumed, not demonstrated) next to them.

The "half-circle dot" symbols I think of more as a cave symbol, particularly in a hill.

Thanks for the analysis!

"Mark of possession" is alleged by some to be associated with the Knights Templar - it's a square cross and generally outlined. The Cookes Range is full of them, also the Santa Rita area.

The "Stars in Heaven" are specific markers to be followed from near the Mexican border to sites further north. For certain they are in the Cookes Range and near Santa Rita. If they are in the Caballos, Organs or Hembrillo Basin, I don't know where.

I don't know what the Roman Numerals in the Caballos are supposed to mean. I've heard people say coordinates or lat/longs.

These opinions are mine only and not guaranteed. Your mileage may vary.

 

[EEx]

I don't believe the map is either drawn to an accurate scale or oriented exactly to true compass bearings, although in general works OK for all the various entries. In my opinion, the map is schematic. That's why I identified "Santa Rita" in the lower left corner.

Actually, I should have said "Santa Rita/Pinos Altos", since those two sites are close to each other and share treasure legends. Same goes for the "Organs" - lots of old legends there. But, to be fair, there are also legends in the "Franklins", a small range south of the Organs overlooking El Paso/Juarez.

The ankh is a symbol found at numerous of the "Mystery Glyph" sites, allegedly created by the "KGC". https://mysteryglyphs.com/ These sites are often associated with treasure caches. None of this is proven, but there are lots of treasure legends found near these glyphs, including those found on the Noss map. Noss is alleged by some to have had intel on a KGC cache site in the Caballos, and possibly elsewhere. You have to be cautious believing anything Noss is credited with, because he was a known serial liar, jailbird, grifter, swindler and allegedly, murderer.

"Noss was a Sentinel gone bad" is an interesting take I have heard - maybe even originally from you.

The main stories I am familiar with in the Franklins are the Lost Padre Mine, the stagecoach robbery loot in Tony's Gap, and the coin cache on Smelter Hill from Arthur L. Campa.

I had always considered the map we are talking about to be somewhat to scale. I'd have to do a lot of re-thinking if I were to discard that assumption. I know a LOT of regional petroglyph sites, but I am also VERY sure there are a lot I do not know. This may make the task difficult if the map symbols relate to petroglyphs and relative scale has to be discarded.

The mystery glyphs have always struck me as being a little goofy looking. But, some other supposed JJ and KGC glyphs also look goofy. Maybe that was just their style?

 

[EEx]

"Mark of possession" is alleged by some to be associated with the Knights Templar - it's a square cross and generally outlined. The Cookes Range is full of them, also the Santa Rita area.
View attachment 2143598

The "Stars in Heaven" are specific markers to be followed from near the Mexican border to sites further north. For certain they are in the Cookes Range and near Santa Rita. If they are in the Caballos, Organs or Hembrillo Basin, I don't know where.
View attachment 2143600

I don't know what the Roman Numerals in the Caballos are supposed to mean. I've heard people say coordinates or lat/longs.

These opinions are mine only and not guaranteed. Your mileage may vary.

Thanks for pictures. That is, after all, what I was hoping this thread would produce.

I'll have to go back through my picture archive and see all the places I've seen these symbols. Both seem fairly common in the region.

The Caballos proper don't have a ton of petroglyphs (or at least typical ones). Areas nearby, yes, but not the main mass of the range. Doc Perrick may have destroyed some.

Good stuff, thanks.

 

[gollum]

I have one bit of evidence to add here:

The Petroglyph associated on the map with the Roman Numeral 17 is actually known. It is in Paloma Pass (IIRC). Paloma Pass also fits with where it is shown on the map.

So, Something from the area in Paloma Pass where this symbol exists is associated with the number 17 (or XVII).

Mike

 

[gollum]

Thanks for pictures. That is, after all, what I was hoping this thread would produce.

I'll have to go back through my picture archive and see all the places I've seen these symbols. Both seem fairly common in the region.

The Caballos proper don't have a ton of petroglyphs (or at least typical ones). Areas nearby, yes, but not the main mass of the range. Doc Perrick may have destroyed some.

Good stuff, thanks.

SOME? HAHAHA Perrick blew up EVERY piece of rock art he found after noting it in his notebook and taking a picture. The REALLY sad thing is that when he was stabbed and killed in a barfight, the notebook disappeared (AFAIK).

Mike

 

[copperpot]

SOME? HAHAHA Perrick blew up EVERY piece of rock art he found after noting it in his notebook and taking a picture. The REALLY sad thing is that when he was stabbed and killed in a barfight, the notebook disappeared (AFAIK).

Mike

I wonder what the reason was behind the stabbing and killed in a barfight?