The Book Club

[somehiker]

Wayne even here in Arizona I see your smile.

W1 I have a pair of yellow Ray Ban shooting glasses. The only thing I've seen with them was my bullet hitting dead center on the TRUE HEART. I gave that target to Wayne as a gift and now he smiles.

More than that, I'm cracking up Frank.
I can tell from what's been said, they ain't no Annie Oakley.
But they're shooting over their shoulder anyhow.
Look straight at it, point and pull, that's all ya gotta do.
This might be the back way in. Next time I'm gonna do it.

View attachment 100_1165 back way.bmp



Beat:Wayne

 

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[somehiker]

Thanks for making that clear. I could not understand how someone with your thought process could become involved that way. You are then an individualist who follows in no man's wake? That is something to be proud of.

I have nothing but sympathy for anyone belonging to such groups. A personal prejudice that came only after learning their history. I am happy that you felt the need to comment on it.

Now we can focus on the stones. By the way, just how long have you been at this? The stones that is?

Been exploring the Sups and area since 1996, mostly focused on the stones for the last four.
I don't harbor prejudice for any group, other than those who favor terrorism as a path toward domination.

Regards:SH.

 

[cactusjumper]

More than that, I'm cracking up Frank.
I can tell from what's been said, they ain't no Annie Oakley.
But they're shooting over their shoulder anyhow.
Look straight at it, point and pull, that's all ya gotta do.
This might be the back way in. Next time I'm gonna do it.

View attachment 806771



Beat:Wayne

Wayne,

Many Native Americans, including the Apache, would consider that cave........sacred.

Take care,

Joe

 

[somehiker]

Wayne,

Many Native Americans, including the Apache, would consider that cave........sacred.

Take care,

Joe

Joe:

It's only one of thousands of caves out there.
What makes you think the Apache even know anything about it, let alone consider it sacred ?
There is a ledge not far away, which features a large triangular formation with an opening at the bottom center.
It looks a lot more like that "triangle/hole" next to the heart pocket, than anything I've found and posted photos of before.
I have to admit, it makes me think about the Brady/France cave. Could this be the source of the draft mentioned in the story ?
If so, I have an idea why it smelled so bad. And probably still does....maybe worse.

Regards:Wayne

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe:

It's only one of thousands of caves out there.
What makes you think the Apache even know anything about it, let alone consider it sacred ?
There is a ledge not far away, which features a large triangular formation with an opening at the bottom center.
It looks a lot more like that "triangle/hole" next to the heart pocket, than anything I've found and posted photos of before.
I have to admit, it makes me think about the Brady/France cave. Could this be the source of the draft mentioned in the story ?
If so, I have an idea why it smelled so bad. And probably still does....maybe worse.

Regards:Wayne

Wayne,

As I wrote, "Many Native Americans, including the Apache, would consider that cave........sacred." It has to do with the shape of the of the entrance.

That shape is found on petroglyphs in many places, including Europe. A good example of where the first woman gave birth to their race. It is a very common petroglyph in the Southwest.

That is not a comment on the smell thingie.

Take care,

Joe

 

[sgtfda]

Wayne that's not where I think it is is it? If it is you need not worry about Apache there.

 

[somehiker]

Wayne,

As I wrote, "Many Native Americans, including the Apache, would consider that cave........sacred." It has to do with the shape of the of the entrance.

That shape is found on petroglyphs in many places, including Europe. A good example of where the first woman gave birth to their race. It is a very common petroglyph in the Southwest.

That is not a comment on the smell thingie.

Take care,

Joe

Joe:
Well, they certainly had plenty of birth caves out there to choose from.
The shape is not uncommon where openings form along strike slip fault boundaries. The cave to the east side of the Bat Cave is a much larger example.
Pretty sure that the interior photos of the mystery mine out near Iron Mountain showed a similar condition.

Frank:
Yes. And I don't worry about the Apache anywhere but on their own turf.
Those days are gone and so are they.

Regards:Wayne

 

[sgtfda]

Thanks for making that clear. I could not understand how someone with your thought process could become involved that way. You are then an individualist who follows in no man's wake? That is something to be proud of.

I have nothing but sympathy for anyone belonging to such groups. A personal prejudice that came only after learning their history. I am happy that you felt the need to comment on it.

Now we can focus on the stones. By the way, just how long have you been at this? The stones that is?

You disappoint me Hal with that comment. Thought you were a bigger person than that. With members like George Washington we are proud of our history. We are the history of America. Did it upset you so much that with the knowledge of Wayne's location it only took me 30 min to work out the heart and trail location. Along with the true direction of the knife. You don't need to be on a balloon or in a plane to design the stone maps. You only need to have traveled in those areas. You may want to start your list over. At the top list common sense. Something your current list lacks.
I'm sure without Wayne's footwork My attention would have been focused on the wrong search area. But Wayne has common sense and his shoes did walk the true path. I truly admire the work he has done on this issue. Anyone interested in this issue should pay close attention to what he has to say. A collector of old maps gave me a gift years ago. That gift helped solve the issue. I'm sure if Wayne had that item he would have solved that issue in 5 min.

 

[sgtfda]

Oh Hal when you check your dirt sample this is what your looking for. Good old Arizona gold. In this case 1/4 oz.

 

[Springfield]

Hopefully you guys are on to something significant. Dozens of others have believed the same thing over the years and decades - quite a few have tooted about it on this very forum. Perhaps you should wait for some verifiable confirmation before the big announcement.

 

[sgtfda]

Springfield. Many in the past have lined up the maps and followed their trail to the end. We only followed the trail back from Wayne's site. Nothing special about finding the trail and heart after the trail end was found first. At this point no one knows what the target is. We can only guess. Hell the target could be long gone and the maps tossed because they were no longer needed. If a target is ever found you won't hear any tooting from me. Only person to hear anything would be my gold buyer. I don't think Wayne will make much noise slipping back across the border. The only thing finding the trail and heart did for me was to confirm Wayne's site in my mind. Many in the past shared some of their activity and I was only doing the same. Hope it was not taken the wrong way. If it was I apologize.

 

[Hal Croves]

You disappoint me Hal with that comment. Thought you were a bigger person than that. With members like George Washington we are proud of our history. We are the history of America. Did it upset you so much that with the knowledge of Wayne's location it only took me 30 min to work out the heart and trail location. Along with the true direction of the knife. You don't need to be on a balloon or in a plane to design the stone maps. You only need to have traveled in those areas. You may want to start your list over. At the top list common sense. Something your current list lacks.
I'm sure without Wayne's footwork My attention would have been focused on the wrong search area. But Wayne has common sense and his shoes did walk the true path. I truly admire the work he has done on this issue. Anyone interested in this issue should pay close attention to what he has to say. A collector of old maps gave me a gift years ago. That gift helped solve the issue. I'm sure if Wayne had that item he would have solved that issue in 5 min.

sgtda,
I just do not see how admitting ones personal prejudices could possibly be wrong. Of course you are disappointed, this part of who you are would demand that and I respect that. I am also disappointed that someone as nice as you would need that.

Regarding President Washington. One thing is clear when one looks carefully at this part of history. The President held deep concerns over the direction that these groups were heading and I am willing to bet that he would not have agreed with the mythology that was created around him or his connection to the craft after his passing. I could be wrong.

The history of any nation is made by its people. Its elitist, and its commoners. Hopefully, there exists a few nice ones in both groups.

And no, nothing about these stones upsets me especially the success of another TN member. I want to know what is waiting to be uncovered (if anything) just as much as the next bloke, but so far nothing. Why not just explain in one brief post, exactly how to read the stones? I am not interested in the discovery site, just your understanding of the instructions.

Is that something that you are willing to provide?

somehiker... would you be willing to do that?

Also, I have put common sense at the top of that list.
It was missing! That is the sleuth in you. Thank you.
He actually did seem to posses an unusual amount of common sense.

Are you sure that you don't know the man?
Anyway, I am happy that you are working with somehiker and look forward to seeing your discovery.

One last thing... you should not confuse true sympathy for antagonism.

 

[sgtfda]

Hal water under the bridge

I would love to post what I found but cannot do so without giving away Wayne's site. You would have a map straight to it. Besides that is for Wayne to disclose and I don't see that happening right now. I believe I said enough on the subject as is.

 

[Hal Croves]

Oh Hal when you check your dirt sample this is what your looking for. Good old Arizona gold. In this case 1/4 oz.

View attachment 807270

sgtfda,
Now, if it were me, I would trade the nugget for a decent compass and pawn the ring for walking around money.
Gold is trending down.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal water under the bridge

I would love to post what I found but cannot do so without giving away Wayne's site. You would have a map straight to it. Besides that is for Wayne to disclose and I don't see that happening right now. I believe I said enough on the subject as is.

No problem.
Just remember your friends on the TN when you are ready to tell the world
A first look would be great.

 

[sgtfda]

In the past while living in Pennsylvania using a old map and county history I worked up a map to a proven location to some lost gold bars. When I moved to Arizona I posted that map so others could visit the site. I always had a talent with old maps and enjoy working things out. I like to prove a site first. Found artifacts from the incident and a friend found 2 gold bars. For all of us the true treasure is in the hunt.

 

[Hal Croves]

Been exploring the Sups and area since 1996, mostly focused on the stones for the last four.
I don't harbor prejudice for any group, other than those who favor terrorism as a path toward domination.

Regards:SH.

Terrorism is like art. Everyone has their own idea of what defines it and everyone is wrong.

I watched someone kick an old dog today and had to fight the impulse to crack him in the knee with my helmet.
Violence is violence.

Sandy Hook is just over a mile from my childhood home, so I am a bit jadded.

 

[sgtfda]

Last year I drove to a local park for some fishing. A rain storm hit and I was waiting for it to let up in my truck. Two young guys arrived and started scoping up baby ducks and tossing them in their car. I was out of the truck like a lighting bolt and on their ass. But that's just me. My wife would have ripped his eyes out if she witnessed some one kicking a dog.

 

[Hal Croves]

Wayne,

As I wrote, "Many Native Americans, including the Apache, would consider that cave........sacred." It has to do with the shape of the of the entrance.

That shape is found on petroglyphs in many places, including Europe. A good example of where the first woman gave birth to their race. It is a very common petroglyph in the Southwest.

That is not a comment on the smell thingie.

Take care,

Joe

cactusjumper,
This cave does not exist here in NJ, but I was there this winter. Every time I show this clip, I am embarrassed by the responses.
A still from the video.

View attachment 807465
​

 

[Springfield]

.... Only person to hear anything would be my gold buyer. I don't think Wayne will make much noise slipping back across the border. The only thing finding the trail and heart did for me was to confirm Wayne's site in my mind. Many in the past shared some of their activity and I was only doing the same. Hope it was not taken the wrong way. If it was I apologize.

Certainly no need to apologize to the forum readers. To your partner - maybe. A public forum would be the last place I'd discuss the possibility of a bona fide discovery. If the claim is valid, bragging about it can't help you.