The Book Club

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Joe,

Whether you believe in the stone maps or not, I can't get the 2 = 3 - 0 - 18 = 7 out of my head. But what if they refer to coordinates, such, as the area is a given for 33.00.00.0 N and 111.00.00 W. To the point, 33.23.00.0 and 111.18.7. I respect your writting and your opinion.. If you go to GE, it puts you in a perty good area. Does anyone have any pics or info about this area?

Skumpa
 

Joe,

Also, I guess I should've asked, did they use lat and longitude, in that time period?

Skumpa
 

Hal,

I'm afraid there has been a bit too much of that grey matter oozing/leaking from my noggin.

Yes, I think he did exist. Don't have much to bolster that belief, but maybe I just like the story better that way. Be more than happy to see some of the lurkers chiming in. Often notice Somehiker and Garry paying attention.

Hello :hello: Wayne.

Take care,

Joe

And a big fat hi to you too Joe.
Grey's what you wind up with, when you mix too much black and white.
Not worried so much about what's leaking out. Just about how much more will fit in the space that's left.
I suppose it's like a closet, where sometimes ya gotta just part with some of the old duds, and make room up there for the new.
Even when the new stuff just don't feel as good at first.

Best: Wayne
 

And a big fat hi to you too Joe.
Grey's what you wind up with, when you mix too much black and white.
Not worried so much about what's leaking out. Just about how much more will fit in the space that's left.
I suppose it's like a closet, where sometimes ya gotta just part with some of the old duds, and make room up there for the new.
Even when the new stuff just don't feel as good at first.

Best: Wayne

Wayne,

In case you haven't noticed, I do have a rather large head......

Along the lines of what you just wrote, here is an example. For many years I was convinced that there was a huge Jesuit treasure out there waiting to be found. That got me into researching the Jesuits, especially in Mexico. Bottom line is, I stuffed enough Jesuit history in my.....noggin, that I had to throw out the stuff it replaced. It's what I do on a constant basis.

On the other hand, I would need some pretty strong evidence to make me a believer in say.......Calalus. If it came, I would turn on a dime.

Take care,

Joe
 

Joe

Follow your heart . The evidences which you want , are denied ( or deleted ) from the history .

Marius
 

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morning Joe, No use in trying to tempt me. heheh

Don Jose de La Mancha

Don Jose,

There are many, many stories of Jesuit treasures. There are no such treasures that are available for modern day confirmation. So far, that would also include your Tayopa. I look forward to the day you will bring the actuality to the legend.

Good luck,

Joe
 

Joe

Never mind for your attitude . I know how you wanted my opinion about Calalus . I'm not stupid...you know .
Two words I will tell you :
" All the roads go to Rome " , and therefore , Jesuits and others , are only intermediaries to get the gold from the New World . Change only names and clothes .
Waltz was the last " key keeper " of the gold source . This is the reason why he didn't claim the mine .
I believe how Adolph Ruth had a suspicion about the roman conection with the LDM , the words "Veni , Vidi " was not incidentally .

Good luck

Marius
 

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You will joe, when it is feasible. That depends upon many factors, espcially the gov'

The synopis on the Tayopa and Jseuit projects.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

g'morning, 'coffee time' Ladies, gentlemen, This is from my notes from the book on Tayopa. It has been posted before, but not in here. I am not sure if you have read it, but might be interesting to a certain amatuer geologist, or a Britlander..

Since Naranjal is included in the claim, I will get into this on another post.

Jose

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The story of Tayopa and the Jesuit involvement in the north western part of Mexico and the US is a fascinating story of international intrigue. murder, and Jesuit famed secrecy, which still exists on any relationship or reference to Tayopa.

The Tayopa story has followed three developments. The first Tayopa was in the vicinity of Guaynopa / Guaynopita. Later they found an even richer zone, so they moved their headquarters to this area. Santa Ana, just west of the present Yecora. They took the name of 'Guadalupe de Tayopa' with them and renamed this new mine 'Tayopa'. this zone is presently being developed by Jim voisin of 'First mexican Gold Corp.

As time went by, they found an even richer zone to the South East, and so moved their headquarters there. Again they took the name of Guadalupe de Tayopa with them and called this new zone' Tayopa'. The Santa Ana operation was renamed 'Guadalupe de Santa Ana'.

The new Tayopa is the one of the legend, the basis for Frank Dobies book "Apache gold and Yaqui silver". This is the one that I have. It was opened in the 1500's and was in Bonanza until the Indian uprising of the 1630's when it was closed. To date I cannot confirm that it was ever reopened, but, in any event the Zone was so rich that they opened various mines and established their head quarters there. These mines were 'not' run by the Jesuits themselves but by their coadjutors. Thus they could honestly say that they did not own or operate any mines in Mexico. In this light the Mission priests were never involved in mining, in fact they probably never knew of this part of the Jesuit operations in Mexico, a sort of "need to know only " operation,

To feed this enormous amount of precious metal to Rome they established a system of way stations across northern Mexico, one day's travel apart by loaded mule, from the collection stations to a small bay just below Matamoros for trans shipment to Rome on Jesuit ships. The pattern was basically, a mule train would leave one way station for the other with a record of it's cargo. Upon arriving at the next way station, it would be compared to what was being delivered, placed in an underground chamber for the night, the men and animals would be fed, then the next day this procedure would be followed to the next one..A few of these unnamed way stations have been found with the last shipment still underground where it was left in 1767 when the order for the arrest for the Jesuits was enforced.

As time went by, this vast flow of metal was too great a temptation for the Jesuits so they formed a plot to take North America away from Spain with the Dutch. When the king of Spain found this out, it was the basis for his infamous expulsion of the jesuits in 1767, not for mining and not paying their taxes, but for insurrection. The form of carrying out this order confirms this. An instantaneous arrest of all Jesuits at a certain hour and date. For simple mining and tax violations etc. this would not be necessary since the Jesuit mission priests had no where to hide. They could have been arrested at leisure.

While the Jesuit society in Rome knew of it almost at the moment of the signing of this order by the King, they chose not to reveal this to the mission Priest, since to do so, would reveal the extent of their court involvement and intrigue so the Mission priest was considered expendable to protect their other interests and was rounded up with historical references.

The next period that Tayopa appears is during the French intervention in Mexico, Napoleon installed Maximilian as Emperor. This was for two reasons, one, he was after Tayopa to rebuild France. He had the French engineers plan a RR to Tayopa. This was being started when the revolution against Maximilin commenced. Part of this data was confirmed by documents, and by Carlotta, his wife, being the Daughter of the King of Belgium, who in turn had close ties with the Jesuit society in Rome, and Maximilian's personal advisor was a Belgium mining engineer sent by the King of Belgium. They had not found Tayopa when the revolution broke out, but with the documentation they had, it was simply a matter of time, they would have had it by the time the RR was completed to the area..

So there Tayopa sat, while hundreds of prospectors, Geologists, mining engrs, and adventurers searched for it, many losing their lives in the process. Even today there are groups forming to search for it, not knowing that I had 'found' it a decade ago.

Coadjutor = Front man

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

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Wayne,

In case you haven't noticed, I do have a rather large head......

Along the lines of what you just wrote, here is an example. For many years I was convinced that there was a huge Jesuit treasure out there waiting to be found. That got me into researching the Jesuits, especially in Mexico. Bottom line is, I stuffed enough Jesuit history in my.....noggin, that I had to throw out the stuff it replaced. It's what I do on a constant basis.

On the other hand, I would need some pretty strong evidence to make me a believer in say.......Calalus. If it came, I would turn on a dime.

Take care,

Joe


Hey Joe,

Does this photograph help any at all? This is a good example of a very old shield and its placed right upon a heart (two saguaros over top of right lobe).


DA_shield.webp DA_shield-C.webp

You may also be able to make out the cross to the upper left side of the shield. Not to sure what is depicted on the shield, but the head of a dinosaur or serpent...?

Interesting none the less.

Ellie Baba
 

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Don Jose,

I really like the story and will be happy to buy a signed first edition when you get it published.

"A few of these unnamed way stations have been found with the last shipment still underground where it was left in 1767 when the order for the arrest for the Jesuits was enforced."

Can you tell us where the documentation of these "few" way stations can be found? Has any other non-native come to the same conclusions about the locations as you have?

Thanks,

Joe
 

Hi Joe, can, but you will have to show your proverbial patience. everything moves in it's own time in both private and legal times / terms, although I think that I inadvertantly let two slip in the stories of Tayopa here in TN.

Don Jose de la Mancha.

p.s. You will get one for free.
 

Does anyone know which year the Dr. Thorne story was to have taken place? Is there any evidence to support the belief that he even existed? If so, what is a good source to read about it?

cactusjumper,
Back to the Dutchman for a moment..... I wanted to know if you have had the chance to read this work?

View attachment 744758
 

Hal,

I don't read German and it's from 1904. Why don't you just tell us what the significance is.:dontknow:

Thanks,

Joe

Well, you don't need to read German to understand it. As far as "significance", it is a directory of students who graduated from Heidelberg University from 1807 to 1846. Barnard wrote that Walzer was a graduate of HU. If that is true, it would be listed in this directory. I never assume what people have read or researched, so if you have not read it, and obviously you have not, then I was simply offering it as suggested reading... in your spare time. It is quite a long list, 700+ pages. Enough to make ones eyes bleed. You will need some quiet time in that study-room of yours and a glass of wine.
 

Well, you don't need to read German to understand it. As far as "significance", it is a directory of students who graduated from Heidelberg University from 1807 to 1846. Barnard wrote that Walzer was a graduate of HU. If that is true, it would be listed in this directory. I never assume what people have read or researched, so if you have not read it, and obviously you have not, then I was simply offering it as suggested reading... in your spare time. It is quite a long list, 700+ pages. Enough to make ones eyes bleed. You will need some quiet time in that study-room of yours and a glass of wine.

Hal,

Seems like a huge waste of money, since you already have the book, and have found the contents to hold something of importance in the history of the LDM story, why not just tell everyone what you have found?

As I have written, I believe Barnard did have some good information on Waltz. On the other hand, I believe he may have had some help making the story more...........commercially viable.

Take care,

Joe
 

Cactusjumper
I wish that it were that easy. Everything is open to interpretation and it would be just an opinion. Those are a dime a dozen, as you know. The book is available for free, online. I think that anyone following Barnard will want to read it.
 

Hal,

OK, Just give me the page numbers you find of interest and I will do my own interpretation. A quick search this afternoon showed nothing that interesting from 1927 to the end of the publication.

It doesn't seem all that difficult to me. You download the book and you get the years and names of the students. Such as:
Entry #324, Joseph Walz, 21 Oct. 1831

Thanks,

Joe
 

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