THE OUTCOME OF MY INNOCENT OUTING COULD HAVE BEEN VERY SERIOUS

[Ray S ECenFL]

Glad you are OK Nat. Very scary situation.

Ray S

 

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[truckinbutch]

You showed good situational awareness and made the right decisions to respond to the threat

Absolutely! Would have ,Should have ,and I'm Gonna are Monday Morning quarterbacking.
You went home alive and wiser for the encounter.You handled the situation well,given the circumstances.HH

 

[The.Boomer]

Way to be heads up out there Nat !

That was a classic set up. See he was all the time trying to figure out how to close the distance between you so he could rob you. What he came up with was a way to lure you closer to him. He figured you'd be interested in the one item of value he had on him, his gun. But once he felt you were close enough he would have turned that gun around and demanded your wallet, jewelery and detector. The bike allows him a fast gettaway through areas un accessible to cars. I'm guessing your in an area where your not used to crack junkies and their ilk. Well it's spreading nationwide thanks to organized gang activities. Won't be two long before we see these types of crimes being committed even in rural small town America. Times are getting bad and there's no releif on the horizon.

 

[spisswgt]

Man it really sucks that you didn't have your piece on you when this happened... Would of been nice to scream DROP IT NOW and aim that thing at his heart.. Then take his gun and pistol whip him and leave..

 

[erikk]

The solution is very simple,......CCW! and the things to use it if necessary.

You got that right....

 

[cybercop106]

He was on a bike and you had a truck Nat......... I'd have followed him until we were in a fairly deserted area and ran him over......

But seriously, under MO CCW law (as of the time I was doing police work in MO before my recent retirement), it is not a 'crime' to carry concealed in a "prohibited" or "restricted" place, it's an infraction, and only that 'if you refuse to leave when told to do so by someone of authority (owner, manager, police, security, etc...)'. It's considered a 'tort' violation, like a parking ticket..... you can be fined but not go to jail (unless you don't pay the fine). But also, because of the way the MO law is written, a CCW permit holder could be on school property with the pistol in plain sight and it would not violate any law or tort.
That's been a complaint since Day1.

Here's a quick list of 'prohibited' places.

* Police stations w/o consent; correctional facilities, prisons and jails.
* Courthouses.
* Polling places on election day.
* Governmental meetings and portions of public buildings that prohibit carrying firearms by ordinance or regulation.
* Bars and lounges, or restaurants that derive less than 50 percent of income from the sale of food.
* Secure areas of airports or any place where the carrying of firearms is prohibited by federal law.
* College or universities or any facilities owned by colleges or universities.
* Elementary or secondary schools without the permission of school officials or any child care facility w/o the permission of the manager.
* Riverboat gambling facilities.
* Buses or bus stations.
* Gated areas of amusement parks.
* Churches or other areas of worship without consent.
* Sports arenas or stadiums with a capacity of five thousand or more.
* Hospitals accessible by the public.
Carrying a firearm while intoxicated is prohibited (misdemeanor if unloaded, felony if loaded).

Here's the state law: http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000107.HTM

If any of this has changed, are there any active MO officers on here who can correct me...?!?

 

[Natman]

I'd have followed him until we were in a fairly deserted area and ran him over......

Thank you for the information..I was in the process of looking up the Missouri laws.

I know I've been thinking of alot of "what ifs" lately, but what if I did carry (with permit) and injured or killed someone in such a restricted area..what would the worst case scenario be?

I'm trying to look far beyond the incident and find out what may be in store for me when dealing with the court system by such an infraction. Note also that I'm talking about OUTSIDE the school while it is NOT in session (weekends, summer break, etc.)

Any information would be appreciated.

Nat

 

[bbqbull]

Nat im glad things turned out for your saftey.

Just renewed my CPL and picked it up yesterday.
Its good for 5 yrs.

 

[Captn SE]

Wow, Nat!!! What a story!! I've been wondering why I haven't seen a post from you this week.

How close do you think you were to this thug when he yelled out that he had a gun? I wonder why he decided to walk with his bike toward you instead of riding his bike as you were approaching the parking lot to your truck?

Just reading your story gave me the chills!! I have detected frequently by myself the past couple of months in enclosed valleys with only one direction to go back to the car. My past couple of trips to this site, I have heard a person talking a little ways up one of the hillsides, hiding in the bushes. He was speaking Spanish. A little while later, out pops a Spanish guy walking along the far fenceline, and he walks across the field I was detecting looking at me and climbs up the hill on the opposite side into the bushes. This area I'm in is known for homeless/gays, but he didn't look homeless, so maybe he was looking to meet someone in the bushes....I don't know....but hearing voices in the bushes isn't a good feeling.

I'm so glad you're alright, Nat. Shook up, I'm sure. I know there's a lot of solo hunters on this site. We just have to be aware at all times and do as best as we can to stay out of harm's way.

Take care!

Dan
CAPTN SE

 

[time4me]

Hey Natman,

Thanks for sharing your story with us - it is a good reminder to stay alert when out by ourselves detecting. I am truly glad that it all turned out ok and you were not injured (or killed) by some idiot thug that has nothing better to do with his time than harrass people. I enjoy your posts here on treasurenet, and while I'm sure your family would miss you terribly, you'd be missed here as well.

The last time my 12 year old son and I were detecting the local schoolyard about a block from out house, a group of about 8 kids came out onto the ball diamond and started screwing around. I kept an eye on them and pulled one earphone off of an ear so I could hear anything out of the ordinary. At one point I looked over to see what they were doing, and they were all sitting in on the bench in the dugout staring at my son and I out in the field. It was really spooky how they just sat there for the longest time staring at us. Then they up and left.

Anyways, thanks again for the recap of your scary day.

Jim

 

[Natman]

I want to thank everyone for your comments, stories and encouraging words.

How close do you think you were to this thug when he yelled out that he had a gun? I wonder why he decided to walk with his bike toward you instead of riding his bike as you were approaching the parking lot to your truck?

Thanks Dan..I've detected since (just to convince myself I'm not afraid to go out) but I hunted VERY close to home..picked up some clad, but I'm hesitant to expand my boundaries for a while to find new turf.

The guy was within 60 yards I would say.. he wasn't yelling as loud as he could, but I heard everything he yelled out to me. If he had a gun (and by all indications he did) I would say he didn't fire because he wasn't a good enough aim at that distance.

His bike was his getaway..when you get off the field and up a small hill, the parking lot is VERY long..I would have never made it to the main road if I was on foot, no matter how fast I ran. Once he got to the pavement he would have chased me down on the bike. If he were to catch up to me in the middle of the lot it would still be difficult for anyone to see me or him. I think the reason he walked the bike in the field was because we were blessed with some good soaking rain just a few days earlier, which would have made it very difficult to ride a bike through.

What really saved me, I believe, is the guy's announcement that he "found" the gun..if he would have just been walking in the distance with the bike without speaking, I probably wouldn't have thought much of it..people sometimes ride bikes/skate/walk around the schools on weekends, and no one ever bothered me. The jacket was weird too..it was too warm for a jacket. When he deliberately put the hood up over his head my immediate thought was "My God, this is a robbery.."

It's really sinking in how lucky I really am..every time I see a loved one or a friend, I'm more happy to see them than I was before the experience..it really shook me up and I'm trying to not let it get to me but it's tougher than I thought. I'm still having my moments.

I'm going to take a little break, but I'm sure I'll eventually get back to it..I enjoy the hobby so much I could never quit doing it.

Nat

 

[truckinbutch]

I want to thank everyone for your comments, stories and encouraging words.

How close do you think you were to this thug when he yelled out that he had a gun? I wonder why he decided to walk with his bike toward you instead of riding his bike as you were approaching the parking lot to your truck?

Thanks Dan..I've detected since (just to convince myself I'm not afraid to go out) but I hunted VERY close to home..picked up some clad, but I'm hesitant to expand my boundaries for a while to find new turf.

The guy was within 60 yards I would say.. he wasn't yelling as loud as he could, but I heard everything he yelled out to me. If he had a gun (and by all indications he did) I would say he didn't fire because he wasn't a good enough aim at that distance.

His bike was his getaway..when you get off the field and up a small hill, the parking lot is VERY long..I would have never made it to the main road if I was on foot, no matter how fast I ran. Once he got to the pavement he would have chased me down on the bike. If he were to catch up to me in the middle of the lot it would still be difficult for anyone to see me or him. I think the reason he walked the bike in the field was because we were blessed with some good soaking rain just a few days earlier, which would have made it very difficult to ride a bike through.

What really saved me, I believe, is the guy's announcement that he "found" the gun..if he would have just been walking in the distance with the bike without speaking, I probably wouldn't have thought much of it..people sometimes ride bikes/skate/walk around the schools on weekends, and no one ever bothered me. The jacket was weird too..it was too warm for a jacket. When he deliberately put the hood up over his head my immediate thought was "My God, this is a robbery.."

It's really sinking in how lucky I really am..every time I see a loved one or a friend, I'm more happy to see them than I was before the experience..it really shook me up and I'm trying to not let it get to me but it's tougher than I thought. I'm still having my moments.

I'm going to take a little break, but I'm sure I'll eventually get back to it..I enjoy the hobby so much I could never quit doing it.

Nat

Your own presence generated a favorable outcome this time.Get back to hunting.Pack a firearm for your own protection.
Castle defense is a scenario that prosecuting attorneys are looking at more favorably in every jurisdiction because of the rise in random violence.

 

[erikk]

I'd have followed him until we were in a fairly deserted area and ran him over......

Thank you for the information..I was in the process of looking up the Missouri laws.

I know I've been thinking of alot of "what ifs" lately, but what if I did carry (with permit) and injured or killed someone in such a restricted area..what would the worst case scenario be?

I'm trying to look far beyond the incident and find out what may be in store for me when dealing with the court system by such an infraction. Note also that I'm talking about OUTSIDE the school while it is NOT in session (weekends, summer break, etc.)


Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6

Any information would be appreciated.

Nat

 

[EDDE]

The solution is very simple,......CCW! and the things to use it if necessary.

http://www.moccw.org/

 

[pjroo33]

Thank GOD everything is OK. I'm sure that was a horrible experience that you will never forget. It sickens me that there are people out there like that. Some people need to get a life.

It is very rare that I go metal detecting alone. Mostly, I just enjoy having the company of someone else and to share my finds with, but now I'm really considering pairing up just for safety reasons. It's rediculous that we should EVER have to look over our shoulder in fear that someone might be intending on harming us.

Anyways... I'm glad you told your story to make everyone aware. Most of all, I'm glad you are OK.

 

[cybercop106]

Thank you for the information..I was in the process of looking up the Missouri laws.
I know I've been thinking of alot of "what ifs" lately, but what if I did carry (with permit) and injured or killed someone in such a restricted area..what would the worst case scenario be?
I'm trying to look far beyond the incident and find out what may be in store for me when dealing with the court system by such an infraction. Note also that I'm talking about OUTSIDE the school while it is NOT in session (weekends, summer break, etc.)
Any information would be appreciated.

Nat

Infraction = $$ fine (the amount depends on the jurisdiction's ordinances) but no jail time.
It's only an infraction if you refuse to leave the restricted property, so if you defended yourself in that situation it would probably be valid self-defense. I can't promise you immunity from criminal law though , because those types of charges depend on the specific circumstances of an incident. And you can be acquitted of criminal charges but successfully sued by the dirtbag (if they survive) or their family. It's happened before because civil law is a steaming pile of %$#&. Whenever you protect yourself or someone else through violence, there will usually be friends, family, publicity seekers and CCW haters in general that will try to hassle you.......... It comes with the 'territory', so to speak.
I do recommend looking up state statutes and city ordinances to familiarize yourself with them. You have a CCW for protection, so you need to research and practice both to make sure if you avail yourself of the option you don't miss (hit a bystander or nonthreatening person and you're in big trouble!!) and that you know what legal precedents and laws substantiate your actions.
I didn't ask before, but if you haven't already, I would recommend talking to the local police about it, maybe go to their HQ and explain what happened. They may have had another incident involving that person..... you wouldn't be his only target..... and at least they could be on the lookout for his description and M.O. As cops, we keep track of that sort of thing, and appreciate as much info as people can provide. Everyone should report stuff like that to the police! They might even have caught him doing something else already.....
And it pays for the cops to know you and know you're a police supporter. You could even offer to find discarded evidence with your detector for them if they need you to sometime. Perps throw guns, keys, aluminum foil wrapped drugs, etc.... I've used my own detectors to find that sort of thing at my department.
As far as being 'outside' the building, the law in MO uses the term "facilities" instead of "buildings", so it can be applied to any property the school owns and uses.

Your own presence generated a favorable outcome this time. Get back to hunting.Pack a firearm for your own protection.
Castle defense is a scenario that prosecuting attorneys are looking at more favorably in every jurisdiction because of the rise in random violence.

MO is one of the states where the Castle Doctrine has been established by law. But it pretty much just applies to places of "habitation" (residence, work place, vehicle and the like). A part of Castle is the "Stand Your Ground" law, which removes a person's 'duty to retreat' from
a threatening person. It was included in regards to your place of habitation, but HAS been applied to individuals out in public in some states, but I'm not sure about in MO......... HOWEVER, one of the basic requirements of that law is the individual must be in a place "legally" before it applies...... that could pose a problem if you are in a 'prohibited' or 'restricted' area according to CCW state statute (law) even though the offense for being there is just an infraction ......
Personally, unless you've had some pretty intensive training, I would recommend you extract yourself from a situation if safely possible. Physical self-defense should be the last option taken........
You did the best thing under the circumstances Nat.
I think everyone should carry a handgun while detecting if they legally can. In a worst case scenario, I think this old adage applies:
"It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

 

[Natman]

That's VERY good information, thanks!

Nat

 

[bill gent]

blame the do-gooders that do nothing except protect the rights of people who are trying to take yours away as well as your life.

God bless em all in a bottomless pit

 

[Ray S ECenFL]

Man it really sucks that you didn't have your piece on you when this happened... Would of been nice to scream DROP IT NOW and aim that thing at his heart.. Then take his gun and pistol whip him and leave..

Never pull a gun unless you intend to use it.

Ray S

 

[ZenAgain]

I see all of these "warning" tales on treasure.net and I'd like to add mine. About a week ago, my wife and I drove down to Lake Charles to do a bit of beach hunting, (No that there's any point, all I ever find on the beach is damned pull tabs from 1970), and while I'm walking along the beach swinging my DFX for all it's worth, some jackass (Yeah, he was a jackass without a doubt) decides to throw out this little tidbit, "If you find it, It's mine and I lost it!" Typical redneck, alpha male type with $20.00 jailhouse looking tattoo's and a bit too much testosterone to let someone be when he's enjoying himself. I replied "If you you want the 2 pennies and 50 pull tabs I've found, they're all your's guy". He goes about his business. Then, about 15 minutes later, I'm digging in the sand (FOR ANOTHER PULL TAB) and he decides to walk on over and try to assert his manliness AGAIN (In between screaming at his kids who are doing nothing more dangerous or bad than standing near the water's edge) and calms down and does the usual "Have you found anything valuable" to which I reply that little or nothing I find is worth more than sentimental value and he wanders off to assert his alpha maleness to his kids or wife or whatever. My point is this. People see guy metal detecting, people think guy/girl is a geek or nerd and decide to assert their manliness.l If people decide to take it a step further, Zen put's the E-Tool upside their --deleted--ing head. Case closed. There's not a one of us that detects with anything less than a digging tool (Which makes a good stabbing tool) and a lot of us use entrenching tools or the like, so the next time some crackhead idiot decides to interrupt YOUR day in the sun? Let em know what a face or head looks like after tangling with an E-Tool. Case Closed.


Is someone going to rob you at GUNPOINT while you metal detect? I think the odds are kind of long. The guy was just fucking with you like the idiot with me at the beach. Had he a gun, he probably would have opened fire on you because hey, let's be realistic, it's not like our justice system keeps these sewer dwellers on hard time long enough. Be an AMERICAN! He wants to ruin your enjoyment of your free time? Put the fear of God in HIS ass. There's been several times I've been willing to put my DFX upside some idiots head if it would grant me some peace of mind. Never mind the E-Tool. It's up to US to make our world safe, if you wait for the government to do it, it's already gone.......