The Peralta-Fish Map

[cw0909]

Originally Posted by Hal Croves
Taken from A Dictionary, Spanish and English and English and Spanish
A. Millar, J. Nourse, and P. Vaillant, 1763

A "fea chart".... might mean “a small chart”

Hal, looks like "s" and "f" were both used interchangeably on that page for "s"...there is one above it that says "courfe" for "course"...it was probably meant to be "sea chart".

something to do with a long s, are there more use, of a long s looks like a f on the map
that long s was used in handwritten text up to mid 1800s, per wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s#Eventual_abandonment_of_the_long_s_in_handwriting

 

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[Hal Croves]

markmar,

If these dashes represent a trail, it should continue, showing the way to each mine. It doesn't which tells me that derrotero is not being used to mean "course". "fea chart' (Little chart) or the "hidden treasure" makes sense.

“Dots on maps, cave or mine treasure or mineral”

Red dashed line: I see them more as dashes which would suggest a trail. This trail leading from Zlanapah (the bend) on the Rio Salado, now Canyon Lake, to an area near the intersection of two major canyons.

Green square - appears to be a P. (Mahan's book) = Padre.

Blue circle - half circle?.... could mean cave.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Originally Posted by Hal Croves
Taken from A Dictionary, Spanish and English and English and Spanish
A. Millar, J. Nourse, and P. Vaillant, 1763

A "fea chart".... might mean “a small chart”



something to do with a long s, are there more use, of a long s looks like a f on the map
that long s was used in handwritten text up to mid 1800s, per wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s#Eventual_abandonment_of_the_long_s_in_handwriting

Thanks CW...seems I should have remembered what a "long S" is ?

According to the rules for use of the long "S", it fits perfectly...

" The long s (ſ) is an archaic form of the lower case letter s. It replaced a single s ... at the beginning ... of a word (e.g. "ſinfulneſs" for "sinfulness" and "ſucceſsful" for "successful") "

Hal, the page from the old dictionary you posted seems to follow these rules exactly. IMO the rules seem to make clear that the definition of "derrotero" would have been "Sea Chart".

Since this is an English dictionary, it's possible that the adjective "Sea" could have been too narrow. Perhaps a Spanish dictionary from the same time-frame might allow for more wide use, such as "Sea or Land Chart". Might be something to look at.

And, since I'm going there, I might add that the Fish Map is actually a map...not a chart...IMO this might be one more example of what Wayne Tuttle described as "crappy white-guy Spanish" on these Superstitions area treasure maps. Or, maybe the terms map and chart were used interchangeably in the Spanish language back then...I don't know.

 

[arcana-exploration]

Problem with your explanation is that there really is no described or noted course to follow. There might be a small, obscure trail indicated but it is a short one, if it is one.
I think that the map is meant to be used to locate a treasure trove and secondly, mines.

I never question a persons beliefs, only their declarations.
But yes, the Peralta-Fish Map excites me, as the "king of the Spanish-Mexican maps" why wouldn't it?[/QThe

IMO King of the Spanish -Mexican maps. Yes.

 

[arcana-exploration]

Problem with your explanation is that there really is no described or noted course to follow. There might be a small, obscure trail indicated but it is a short one, if it is one.
I think that the map is meant to be used to locate a treasure trove and secondly, mines.

I never question a persons beliefs, only their declarations.
But yes, the Peralta-Fish Map excites me, as the "king of the Spanish-Mexican maps" why wouldn't it?

Yes, a very small narrow pathway, that leads beyond the mine.

 

[cw0909]

i see, so the long s came from the Dictionary in Hal posted
not the map
i missed the Dictionary img, b/c for some reason Hal font
is real small, when i zoomed to read post, must have went
on by the Dictionary img ,font looks like this small font

 

[gollum]

hal...depends on what you want to detect...its best to get and all around machine that will work for prospecting..coins or relics...whites mxt...fisher gold bug pro..tesoro lobo super traq are all excellent machines

I wouldn't recommend the Gold Bug Pro. If you're gonna do any prospecting, get the Gold Bug II. Best there is for small stuff that's shallow.

Mike

 

[azdave35]

I wouldn't recommend the Gold Bug Pro. If you're gonna do any prospecting, get the Gold Bug II. Best there is for small stuff that's shallow.

Mike

i have both bug pro and bug2....the pro will actually detect a smaller piece of gold than the bug 2..it also is a pretty good coin and relic machine

 

[gollum]

i have both bug pro and bug2....the pro will actually detect a smaller piece of gold than the bug 2..it also is a pretty good coin and relic machine

You had better go test that! Before I got my GBII, I looked at the Pro. Only 19kHz. Not a high enough Freq for really small stuff. GBII is 71kHz. That is why you basically have to scrub the coil in the dirt. That high a freq doesn't penetrate very deep, but will find flakes nothing else will. GB Pro is a better "all around" detector, but GBII will kill it for little stuff. THAT is why Fisher still sells the GBII. Even with manual ground balance, I'll take the GBII over the GB Pro>

Mike

 

[azdave35]

You had better go test that! Before I got my GBII, I looked at the Pro. Only 19kHz. Not a high enough Freq for really small stuff. GBII is 71kHz. That is why you basically have to scrub the coil in the dirt. That high a freq doesn't penetrate very deep, but will find flakes nothing else will. GB Pro is a better "all around" detector, but GBII will kill it for little stuff. THAT is why Fisher still sells the GBII. Even with manual ground balance, I'll take the GBII over the GB Pro>

Mike

mike...i have tested it quite a bit...actually mine isn't the pro... it is the gold bug SE....it was the one just before the pro......they had a problem with the SE so they stopped making it and came out with the pro...same detector..different sticker..lol..the SE had a problem..it was super hot on gold but wouldn't hit good on silver...so the scrapped it and came out with the pro..they fixed the silver problem but it lost some sensitivity on gold..i like the gold bug 2 but it is so sensitive when you get in hot ground you have to turn the sensitivity down to 4 or 5 to make it stable

 

[gollum]

mike...i have tested it quite a bit...actually mine isn't the pro... it is the gold bug SE....it was the one just before the pro......they had a problem with the SE so they stopped making it and came out with the pro...same detector..different sticker..lol..the SE had a problem..it was super hot on gold but wouldn't hit good on silver...so the scrapped it and came out with the pro..they fixed the silver problem but it lost some sensitivity on gold..i like the gold bug 2 but it is so sensitive when you get in hot ground you have to turn the sensitivity down to 4 or 5 to make it stable

Not just that. You have to re-ground balance it every time the ground changes (bedrock, sand, gravel, hot rocks, etc). I will still take the GBII over anything (except maybe the SDC2300 at four to five times the price) for little teenintsy stuff close to the surface. If I want deep, I have my heavily modded SD2000. I did all the Ismael Mods. My Schiebel is not that good for gold, but is tested to find a 9 millimeter piece of wire at half a meter (its a mine detector and the only metal in a Chinese Type 072 AP Mine is a 9mm piece of wire).

Mike

 

[azdave35]

Not just that. You have to re-ground balance it every time the ground changes (bedrock, sand, gravel, hot rocks, etc). I will still take the GBII over anything (except maybe the SDC2300 at four to five times the price) for little teenintsy stuff close to the surface. If I want deep, I have my heavily modded SD2000. I did all the Ismael Mods. My Schiebel is not that good for gold, but is tested to find a 9 millimeter piece of wire at half a meter (its a mine detector and the only metal in a Chinese Type 072 AP Mine is a 9mm piece of wire).

Mike

mike...i have a modded sd2000 also that was done by ismael..i haven't played with it much but i hear they are excellent...minelab has a new vlf out called the gold monster...supposed to be a gold bug killer..i know 2 guys that bought them...they were gold bug 2 guys until they tried the monster..they sold their gold bugs...the monster is fairly cheap too...700 bucks i think

 

[PotBelly Jim]

I'm not one of those guys you will find out there swinging a metal detector...not my idea of fun...BUT...sometimes there's no getting around it especially if you're in a new area and you don't know what's out there...if you're into metal detecting and get into tuning your gear to find the smallest possible pinprick of gold, well this post isn't for you...but if you need a quick tool that's easy to use, auto-ground balances, discriminates well, etc...and you don't want to empty your wallet OR fiddle endlessly trying to remember how to tune an occasionally used tool:

View attachment 1755172

Older Tesoro Lobo Super Traq

AZ is kind of a crappy place to detect...the ground changes every 3 feet, there's a TON of junk everywhere, sometimes you're in water if you're like me and use the detector in/around old mines...you can get them fairly cheap used...just make sure to get a skid plate for the coil...if you're buying it used the previous owner has most likely already done that

Auto ground balance and easy to take off the electronics and hold 'em up over your head if you're going neck deep in water...or just clip the 'tronics to your backpack if the water isn't too deep, the box has a clip on it for that purpose...not too shabby for a VLF machine, not expensive, and minimal fussing with controls...and I can still find small gold with the best of 'em if I get talked into going nugget shooting.

 

[Gregory E. Davis]

Good morning All: Question? How did this site which pertains to The Peralta-Fish Map turn into a discussion about Metal detectors Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Good morning All: Question? How did this site which pertains to The Peralta-Fish Map turn into a discussion about Metal detectors Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

When the guy that started the thread asked a question about them?

 

[azdave35]

When the guy that started the thread asked a question about them?

sounds logical

 

[azdave35]

Good morning All: Question? How did this site which pertains to The Peralta-Fish Map turn into a discussion about Metal detectors Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

discussion moved to another thread

 

[gollum]

Good morning All: Question? How did this site which pertains to The Peralta-Fish Map turn into a discussion about Metal detectors Cordially, Gregory E. Davis

Simple. This is Treasurenet. Almost every thread goes off on a tangent now and again. You should look at some of the threads with especially high page counts! Conversations here tend to do the same as conversations around a campfire. Goes one way for a while, then swerves away some, then swerves back, then a hard right turn......LOL You shouldn't give it two thoughts.

Jim,

Be careful with that one! Company is out of business. You should pick up another brand! Vince (owner) is currently still going in and doing warranty work a few days a week, but I don't know how long that's going to last.

Mike

 

[azdave35]

Simple. This is Treasurenet. Almost every thread goes off on a tangent now and again. You should look at some of the threads with especially high page counts! Conversations here tend to do the same as conversations around a campfire. Goes one way for a while, then swerves away some, then swerves back, then a hard right turn......LOL You shouldn't give it two thoughts.

Jim,

Be careful with that one! Company is out of business. You should pick up another brand! Vince (owner) is currently still going in and doing warranty work a few days a week, but I don't know how long that's going to last.

Mike

every thread goes off course...its human nature

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Simple. This is Treasurenet. Almost every thread goes off on a tangent now and again. You should look at some of the threads with especially high page counts! Conversations here tend to do the same as conversations around a campfire. Goes one way for a while, then swerves away some, then swerves back, then a hard right turn......LOL You shouldn't give it two thoughts.

Jim,

Be careful with that one! Company is out of business. You should pick up another brand! Vince (owner) is currently still going in and doing warranty work a few days a week, but I don't know how long that's going to last.

Mike

Thanks Mike...I didn't know that they were still in existence at any level...that's some serious dedication by Vince as I think they were the only detector company with a lifetime warranty? Anyway, if mine bites the dust at some point I would probably just get another one, at least for the time being there still seems to be a lot of places selling them...if not I would like to try the Gold Monster...

Regarding "staying on topic", I don't think we were going off topic AT ALL. Since Hal, who started this thread, said he'd like to get into detecting but was "in the dark" about where to start, I see no reason why people can't respond to him and try to help him out/relate their experiences. The advice that Paul, Mike and Dave gave and discussed was great info, from experienced TH'ers, not just for Hal but for all of us. Hal is also doing a great job so far analyzing the Fish Map, and I hope when he's ready he will continue down that path in this thread.

I'm surprised to see that Dave's thread on the Tortilla Flat Treasure Cave has been moved.