Kregger, ?I was trying to do some anagramming on what gemini ?had posted on what she had found so far in the first clue . I decided to go back and look at pg 80 for you , but got distracted on pg 83 . now if you turn the book upside down and look at the word BUT in the poem. it looks to me as the ladybug body . the head is actually the eye of the character in the background . let me know what you think . also the legs are part of the B and ?U ?in the word but . on pg 80 i'm getting alot of letters in the rocks , but it seems they are layered and am trying to figure out the layers at this point. as soon as i can get them all separated i'll post them .
Treasure Clue, can you help?
- Thread starter SearchingTudor
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F
FindersKeepers2k5
Guest
Stalking Lurking Newbie here.
I have been researching the Moon aspects too. The dandelion seeds I have traced and did overlays. They seem to be the same dandelion but mirror image except in a few pages. I have tried to move the seeds in the overlay to see if there is a message, but have not found anything.
I also looked on the internet about phases of the moon. Interestingly, the 3/4 moon (not half but not whole) takes a fortnight to get to a full moon - (The one on ending the cycle of the moon). The full moon fortnight is like daylight at night?.... So many aspects seem to be coincidences?
I have been researching the Moon aspects too. The dandelion seeds I have traced and did overlays. They seem to be the same dandelion but mirror image except in a few pages. I have tried to move the seeds in the overlay to see if there is a message, but have not found anything.
I also looked on the internet about phases of the moon. Interestingly, the 3/4 moon (not half but not whole) takes a fortnight to get to a full moon - (The one on ending the cycle of the moon). The full moon fortnight is like daylight at night?.... So many aspects seem to be coincidences?
Y
your old pal, Vic
Guest
Also, depending on the position of the dandelion, it's "moon shape" is either waxing or waning, which happens on certain days within the cycle of the moon. Don't know if there's a numbers game at play here, but I'll look into it. Also, I don't know if this will be of any help to anyone, but the dandelion and moon appearances are as follows:
FRONT COVER: dandelion on bottom left, moon shape is waning, 5 seeds floating
BACK OF FRONT COVER: dandelion on left side, moon shape is waning, 5 seeds floating
PAGE 19: dandelion on bottom right, moon shape is waxing, 4 seeds floating
PAGE 33: dandelion almost center, moon shape is waning, 5 seeds floating
PAGE 36: dandelion lower right, moon shape is waxing, 4 seeds floating
PAGE 38: dandelion lower left, moon shape is waning, 4 seeds floating
PAGE 77: dandelion lower right, moon shape is waxing, 32 seeds floating
PAGE 83: no dandelion present, but there are 4 seeds floating in lower right of page
PAGE 86: dandelion lower right, moon shape is waxing, 4 seeds floating
PAGE 101: dandelion lower right, moon shape is waxing, 4 seeds floating
BACK OF BOOK: dandelion lower right, moon shape is waxing, 4 seeds floating
Appearances of an actual moon:
COVER: moon is waxing
PAGE 21: moon is waxing
PAGE 31: moon is waxing
PAGE 58: moon is waning
PAGE 68: moon is waning
FRONT COVER: dandelion on bottom left, moon shape is waning, 5 seeds floating
BACK OF FRONT COVER: dandelion on left side, moon shape is waning, 5 seeds floating
PAGE 19: dandelion on bottom right, moon shape is waxing, 4 seeds floating
PAGE 33: dandelion almost center, moon shape is waning, 5 seeds floating
PAGE 36: dandelion lower right, moon shape is waxing, 4 seeds floating
PAGE 38: dandelion lower left, moon shape is waning, 4 seeds floating
PAGE 77: dandelion lower right, moon shape is waxing, 32 seeds floating
PAGE 83: no dandelion present, but there are 4 seeds floating in lower right of page
PAGE 86: dandelion lower right, moon shape is waxing, 4 seeds floating
PAGE 101: dandelion lower right, moon shape is waxing, 4 seeds floating
BACK OF BOOK: dandelion lower right, moon shape is waxing, 4 seeds floating
Appearances of an actual moon:
COVER: moon is waxing
PAGE 21: moon is waxing
PAGE 31: moon is waxing
PAGE 58: moon is waning
PAGE 68: moon is waning
N
noxoc
Guest
Hi All,
I sent an e-mail to MS to get some clarification on things he stated in the foreword. I thought I would share this with you as I finally got a reply, which is frustrating to say the least. It makes me wonder if MS actually answers the e-mails or has someone else do it who is in the dark as much as we are. Anyway, here it is....
Dear Mr. Stadther,
I have some questions regarding clarification of wording in the foreword and
rules. I am not asking for clues, just clarification. I have tried to word
questions so all you would have to answer is yes or no.
In the foreword, you write:
"I have not hidden them in remote locations, but rather I have hidden them
in places accessible to everyone."
1. Does "remote" mean areas that are not visited daily by a lot of people,
such as the Joshua Tree National Forest? I am not seeking whether that is a
possible location, I am simply using it as a reference because it is an
easily identifiable location for both of us (I hope)--and, it is situated a
distance from a populated area.
2. Does "remote" mean areas that are outside a metropolitan city, such as a
campground area at a lake that is near the city, but a ways outside of city
limits?
3. Does "accessible to everyone" mean that individuals who are in
wheelchairs would be able to access the location easily?
4. Do any of the locations include areas where a person would have to pay to
access the area?
5. Can the locations be accessed at any time day, or night?
"But none are on private property and none are buried."
1. Is an amusement park considered private property?
2. Is a botanical garden or zoo considered private property?
3. Is a state park considered public property?
"The simple clues don't need any special knowledge to find or decipher."
1. The companion book provides clues to some of the techniques used in the
book. Did you employ additional techniques to hide clues in the book that
weren't presented in the companion book?
2. In other words, do I have to conduct research to attempt to find
additional ciphers or codes not presented in the companion book in order to
solve clues?
3. Assuming that each solution for a location is a combination of separate
individual pieces of information (ex: like the 3 numbers used to make up
combination of a lock)…
a. Does each individual piece of the information (ex: each number in the
combination) have to be "sifted" through various sieves to be
deciphered…for example, do you have to solve an anagram, then apply a
cipher to the anagram, and then another technique to that just to get a
single piece of the combination?
b. In other words, do I have to imply a multitude of techniques just to get
one "number of the combination"?
c. Or, does each "number for the combination" have a single solution?
4. Do the clues, once deciphered lead you to a precise location such as
Central Park, go to the waterfall on the East side of the park, walk 20
paces left from the waterfall to the third tree, here is the token? (I have
never been to New York, so this is purely hypothetical).
5. Or, do the clues just take you close to the "exact" location such as the
San Diego Zoo near the Polar Bears?
And, my "just curious" questions…
1. Does the "MYMRLYVR" on the manufacturing tag for the stuffed Pook,
decipher to the word "thirteen"? If so, Very clever and cute!
2. Will you be coming to AZ again for the book? If so, do you know when?
3. I know the tokens have to redeemed and sent in to claim a treasure…but
does the possibility exist that the finder will be able to get the token
back (such as to make into a necklace)?
The response from MS:
B.J.
im sorry but i cant answer your specific questions but im glad you are
enjoying the book.
mike stadther
So, let me pose the question to you all...don't you think MS should at least define what qualifies as "remote", "accessible", and "private property" in regards to locations?
I sent an e-mail to MS to get some clarification on things he stated in the foreword. I thought I would share this with you as I finally got a reply, which is frustrating to say the least. It makes me wonder if MS actually answers the e-mails or has someone else do it who is in the dark as much as we are. Anyway, here it is....
Dear Mr. Stadther,
I have some questions regarding clarification of wording in the foreword and
rules. I am not asking for clues, just clarification. I have tried to word
questions so all you would have to answer is yes or no.
In the foreword, you write:
"I have not hidden them in remote locations, but rather I have hidden them
in places accessible to everyone."
1. Does "remote" mean areas that are not visited daily by a lot of people,
such as the Joshua Tree National Forest? I am not seeking whether that is a
possible location, I am simply using it as a reference because it is an
easily identifiable location for both of us (I hope)--and, it is situated a
distance from a populated area.
2. Does "remote" mean areas that are outside a metropolitan city, such as a
campground area at a lake that is near the city, but a ways outside of city
limits?
3. Does "accessible to everyone" mean that individuals who are in
wheelchairs would be able to access the location easily?
4. Do any of the locations include areas where a person would have to pay to
access the area?
5. Can the locations be accessed at any time day, or night?
"But none are on private property and none are buried."
1. Is an amusement park considered private property?
2. Is a botanical garden or zoo considered private property?
3. Is a state park considered public property?
"The simple clues don't need any special knowledge to find or decipher."
1. The companion book provides clues to some of the techniques used in the
book. Did you employ additional techniques to hide clues in the book that
weren't presented in the companion book?
2. In other words, do I have to conduct research to attempt to find
additional ciphers or codes not presented in the companion book in order to
solve clues?
3. Assuming that each solution for a location is a combination of separate
individual pieces of information (ex: like the 3 numbers used to make up
combination of a lock)…
a. Does each individual piece of the information (ex: each number in the
combination) have to be "sifted" through various sieves to be
deciphered…for example, do you have to solve an anagram, then apply a
cipher to the anagram, and then another technique to that just to get a
single piece of the combination?
b. In other words, do I have to imply a multitude of techniques just to get
one "number of the combination"?
c. Or, does each "number for the combination" have a single solution?
4. Do the clues, once deciphered lead you to a precise location such as
Central Park, go to the waterfall on the East side of the park, walk 20
paces left from the waterfall to the third tree, here is the token? (I have
never been to New York, so this is purely hypothetical).
5. Or, do the clues just take you close to the "exact" location such as the
San Diego Zoo near the Polar Bears?
And, my "just curious" questions…
1. Does the "MYMRLYVR" on the manufacturing tag for the stuffed Pook,
decipher to the word "thirteen"? If so, Very clever and cute!
2. Will you be coming to AZ again for the book? If so, do you know when?
3. I know the tokens have to redeemed and sent in to claim a treasure…but
does the possibility exist that the finder will be able to get the token
back (such as to make into a necklace)?
The response from MS:
B.J.
im sorry but i cant answer your specific questions but im glad you are
enjoying the book.
mike stadther
So, let me pose the question to you all...don't you think MS should at least define what qualifies as "remote", "accessible", and "private property" in regards to locations?
L
LitDoc
Guest
Noxoc, great questions--I'm sorry you did not get great answers. 
May I suggest that the questions be posed, one at a time, without any specific locations. For example, "Is a botanical garden or zoo considered private property?" Several of us could take one question and send it to him and then post the response.
May I suggest that the questions be posed, one at a time, without any specific locations. For example, "Is a botanical garden or zoo considered private property?" Several of us could take one question and send it to him and then post the response.
T
Trapape
Guest
Noxoc- I'm surprised that you got any response. Good try. Maybe litdoc is right and we should all email a seperate question to him.
G
grimey
Guest
I've been looking at the moon thing for a while, and find it interesting that Pook is mentioned on p21/31 with Waxing moon, and Rusful is on p58/68 with Waning moon (each dual reference is 10 pgs apart). Pook is afraid of dark, Rusful afraid of light, and when they connect, they form into glistening blacks rocks, and a crystalized body, surrounded by jewels. Rusful's yellow ulcerous hand is like sulfur powder, but he also has the ash black powder of the blight; so what is Pook really made of?
Also, from the Web on Sulfur reactions:
Sulfur (8) molecules can pack to form more than one crystal. The most stable form of sulfur consists of orthorhombic crystals of S8 molecules, which are often found near volcanoes. If these crystals are heated until they melt and the molten sulfur is then cooled, an allotrope of sulfur consisting of monoclinic crystals of S8 molecules is formed. These monoclinic crystals slowly transform themselves into the more stable orthorhombic structure over a period of time.
There is volcanic type references in the book, and on the inside cover, Dragonfly's right sunglass shade is an image of a smoldering volcanoe. Interesting to find mentions of crystals/volcanoes in these definitions.
Also, from the Web on Sulfur reactions:
Sulfur (8) molecules can pack to form more than one crystal. The most stable form of sulfur consists of orthorhombic crystals of S8 molecules, which are often found near volcanoes. If these crystals are heated until they melt and the molten sulfur is then cooled, an allotrope of sulfur consisting of monoclinic crystals of S8 molecules is formed. These monoclinic crystals slowly transform themselves into the more stable orthorhombic structure over a period of time.
There is volcanic type references in the book, and on the inside cover, Dragonfly's right sunglass shade is an image of a smoldering volcanoe. Interesting to find mentions of crystals/volcanoes in these definitions.
Scottziilla
Greenie
Just thought I would post an email I got from MS that (like noxoc's) shows how evasive MS is.
Also, note the lack of captilization. (What date did they change the wording on the website from found to redeemed?)
On 2/17/2005 I Wrote :
When a token is determined to be "found", even though it may not be
"redeemed", will you post that the token is found? In other words, the
rules say you (sponsor) will not transfer possession until end date. If a
token is found before the end date but possesion of prize is not taken until end
date, will you post the "finding" before the end date?
MS responded :
Scott,
i may not know a token is found. if it is found this morning, for
example, i may not know it until later.
but, as soon as a token id redeemed and validated, it will be posted on
atreasurestrove.com.
mike stadther
Also, note the lack of captilization. (What date did they change the wording on the website from found to redeemed?)
On 2/17/2005 I Wrote :
When a token is determined to be "found", even though it may not be
"redeemed", will you post that the token is found? In other words, the
rules say you (sponsor) will not transfer possession until end date. If a
token is found before the end date but possesion of prize is not taken until end
date, will you post the "finding" before the end date?
MS responded :
Scott,
i may not know a token is found. if it is found this morning, for
example, i may not know it until later.
but, as soon as a token id redeemed and validated, it will be posted on
atreasurestrove.com.
mike stadther
salkns
Jr. Member
Noxoc,
Bless your heart for trying! I do think that he could have answered about getting the token back to make a necklace. That really has nothing to do with the hunt, but then, maybe he would like to get something back from this as a keepsake as
well.
This man must get a million questions and e-mails a day. I think it is amazing he gets any of them answered. This is not his only interest according to the bio on ATT web site.
I tried to post some info yesterday and after I got it all done, lost it. I will try again once I can get my book.
Anyone here from Texas? Closest "big city" to town I'm thinking of would be Austin.
Bless your heart for trying! I do think that he could have answered about getting the token back to make a necklace. That really has nothing to do with the hunt, but then, maybe he would like to get something back from this as a keepsake as
well.This man must get a million questions and e-mails a day. I think it is amazing he gets any of them answered. This is not his only interest according to the bio on ATT web site.
I tried to post some info yesterday and after I got it all done, lost it. I will try again once I can get my book.
Anyone here from Texas? Closest "big city" to town I'm thinking of would be Austin.
Y
your old pal, Vic
Guest
OK, still riffing on MOON ideas, here.
I find it interesting that some of the dandelions are tilted to resemble both an OLD CRESCENT MOON and a NEW CRESCENT MOON. You will find illustrations at:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/moonphase/
The OLD CRESCENT MOON is seen in the EAST and the NEW CRESCENT MOON is seen in the WEST. I wonder if this could be a subtle hint as to which coast a particular treasure is located or closer to.
I'm also wondering if there are any tie-ins with anything from the zodiac signs, as they are heavily associated with the moon AND there are twelve of them.
I find it interesting that some of the dandelions are tilted to resemble both an OLD CRESCENT MOON and a NEW CRESCENT MOON. You will find illustrations at:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~krcool/Astro/moon/moonphase/
The OLD CRESCENT MOON is seen in the EAST and the NEW CRESCENT MOON is seen in the WEST. I wonder if this could be a subtle hint as to which coast a particular treasure is located or closer to.
I'm also wondering if there are any tie-ins with anything from the zodiac signs, as they are heavily associated with the moon AND there are twelve of them.
salkns
Jr. Member
Vic, I think the moons have to have some sort of significance seeing as how they are in the dream song.
Here is another thought, but not on moons.
There are 12 drop caps with boxes. One does not have a fairy, the "W" that is the tree.
12 fairies, a letter to each, a token to each, a state to each, a town to each, an exact location to each...
1 fairies plus their letter is town and state? Where they ponit is exact location, or where to begin in 5x5 grid? Maybe color they point to is where to start in grid using the "Z" or chapter one drop cap box?
Maybe everything that is not in "the group" or in a group of 12, goes to Pook. The Blight Spreader, Yorah, the "W", the Dream since it is not numbered as a chapter...
Any feedback?
Here is another thought, but not on moons.
There are 12 drop caps with boxes. One does not have a fairy, the "W" that is the tree.
12 fairies, a letter to each, a token to each, a state to each, a town to each, an exact location to each...
1 fairies plus their letter is town and state? Where they ponit is exact location, or where to begin in 5x5 grid? Maybe color they point to is where to start in grid using the "Z" or chapter one drop cap box?
Maybe everything that is not in "the group" or in a group of 12, goes to Pook. The Blight Spreader, Yorah, the "W", the Dream since it is not numbered as a chapter...
Any feedback?
salkns
Jr. Member
What if the jewelry box is not a square, but a diamond? A square is the same deep as wide. A diamond is the same high as it is wide, I guess a square is too. doesn't have to be depth.
ooxoo
oxxxo
xxxxx
oxxxo
ooxoo
Still 5 to a side.
ooxoo
oxxxo
xxxxx
oxxxo
ooxoo
Still 5 to a side.
salkns
Jr. Member
Sorry, one more thought..."It was the seven that was the key"
Diamond has 7 letters.
Diamond has 7 letters.
Scottziilla
Greenie
Maybe some of the brainiacs here can do something with this :
The "moonlike,moonlike....." anagram has always bugged me. I'm not saying it's wrong, it just seems kinda'clumsy. I started looking at "moonlike" being crescent. There seems to be spelling variant of crescent which is "cresent". The two seem interchangeable. Using the decrypto software tool on tweleve.org I typed in "cresent" which generated 150 solutions. 1 was "arising" and another was "fairies".
moonlike = cresent
dreamer one on ending = arising
I cause your puzzling = fairies
The decrypto tool which can found at http://www.ravenousbirds.com/decrypto, finds word based on patterns of letters. It's used to help find substitutions cyphers. Maybe something..maybe not.....
The "moonlike,moonlike....." anagram has always bugged me. I'm not saying it's wrong, it just seems kinda'clumsy. I started looking at "moonlike" being crescent. There seems to be spelling variant of crescent which is "cresent". The two seem interchangeable. Using the decrypto software tool on tweleve.org I typed in "cresent" which generated 150 solutions. 1 was "arising" and another was "fairies".
moonlike = cresent
dreamer one on ending = arising
I cause your puzzling = fairies
The decrypto tool which can found at http://www.ravenousbirds.com/decrypto, finds word based on patterns of letters. It's used to help find substitutions cyphers. Maybe something..maybe not.....
salkns
Jr. Member
Vic, Awesome sight! I have always been facinated by the moon, but have never really looked into it. I noticed that in the descriptions they also refer to them as "quarter moon". Could west be left and east be right and some how each is a quarter of a clue? Just a thought...
While we're talking about references to the moon, here's another angle: Moon Trees. (I'm paraphrasing) In 1971 (around the time MS would have been in college - remember an astronaut paid for his college education at Tulane.), an astronaut on the Apollo 14 mission took 400-500 tree seeds with him to the moon. When he brought them back, they were planted all over the earth. They are known as Moon Trees. Offspring are known as Half-Moon Trees. The astronaught was Stuart Roosa (anagram to anything?). Before becoming an astronaut, he worked for the US FOREST SERVICE.
There is an effort to try to locate these trees now as most are expected to be still living. About 40 have been located - in such places as the White House, Kennedy Space Center, Huntsville, Ala, a girl scout camp in Indiana, etc. The locations of the known moon trees are on this website: www.space.com/news/spacehistory/moon_trees_010509.html
Is it possible that one of MS's objectives is to locate more moon trees?
Zuse
There is an effort to try to locate these trees now as most are expected to be still living. About 40 have been located - in such places as the White House, Kennedy Space Center, Huntsville, Ala, a girl scout camp in Indiana, etc. The locations of the known moon trees are on this website: www.space.com/news/spacehistory/moon_trees_010509.html
Is it possible that one of MS's objectives is to locate more moon trees?
Zuse
R
Relddir
Guest
Hello Everyone,
I wanted to share my theory on the two lines of the puzzle. "An even code with one piece Nary(not one)" & "Will spell out the sanctuary". There are twenty chapters (even code) and "The Dream" (one piece Nary). Nary meaning not one, "The Dream" is not a chapter. Thus "The Dream" is the piece that will spell out the sanctuary of the tokens.
Also, just another thought why would Stadther refer to the pieces as "tokens?" Why not "coins" or "metals" or "golden leafs". Could this have some significance on their locations (i.e. Arcades, Casinos, Subway Stations, etc.).
Relddir
I wanted to share my theory on the two lines of the puzzle. "An even code with one piece Nary(not one)" & "Will spell out the sanctuary". There are twenty chapters (even code) and "The Dream" (one piece Nary). Nary meaning not one, "The Dream" is not a chapter. Thus "The Dream" is the piece that will spell out the sanctuary of the tokens.
Also, just another thought why would Stadther refer to the pieces as "tokens?" Why not "coins" or "metals" or "golden leafs". Could this have some significance on their locations (i.e. Arcades, Casinos, Subway Stations, etc.).
Relddir
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