Video 4 - The Peralta Stone Maps with Frank Augustine

[somehiker]

Thanks for sharing what you've been able to find Gary.
If you look at the second G/E view I posted previously, with where I believe Travis stopped his car the first time, you can see where the right hand guard rail has been added to/extended, possibly as a result of that crash and lawsuit. I wouldn't be surprised if some damage to the abutment is still apparent....or evidence of it having been repaired.

Regards:SH.

 

[deducer]

A shot looking north from the top of the path...

View attachment 1168641

another of the wash which Travis may have taken down to the creek for water, if he didn't use the cow path.
Lots of sand and looser soil, so easier to bury something like the stones here.

View attachment 1168667

the same, cropped and enlarged to show the tip of Weavers Needle

View attachment 1168668

I'm getting invalid links?

 

[somehiker]

I'm getting invalid links?

Something wrong with the processing by TNet ?
They were visible as photos when I posted them, but now I have to click on them and open with Irfanview.
I have to go out for a couple of hours....I'll repost them later if they still do not show up.

 

[Tnmountains]

Something wrong with the processing by TNet ?
They were visible as photos when I posted them, but now I have to click on them and open with Irfanview.
I have to go out for a couple of hours....I'll repost them later if they still do not show up.

The first link is invalid. The second two links work including the one with Weaver needle. Please re-post the first one again. Thanks!

 

[deducer]

Something wrong with the processing by TNet ?
They were visible as photos when I posted them, but now I have to click on them and open with Irfanview.
I have to go out for a couple of hours....I'll repost them later if they still do not show up.

Here is what I'm getting:



If you could repost, that would be great- thanks.

 

[Tnmountains]

I can open it now but it will not let me change the size to show it.

 

[Oroblanco]

Somehiker wrote

sometimes, as with the conversations about "cloth maps".....BTW: did the pillowcase have a removeable heart ?....it reminds me of this.......

Have you seen the cloth map?

 

[Garry]

Garry,

Good article. And; I agree that the 1966 time frame for the construction photo fits better than 1955. I have seen three dates now for the photo but I too think 1966 is the accurate one.


As best I can put it together we have three options as the source/location of the find:

(1) Travis Tumlinson pulled over to the north side of the west bound lane of "new" route 60 and recovered the horse/priest stone, circa 1949. Later returning and discovering the additional stones.
(2) Travis Tumlinson was arrowhead hunting in the vicinity of the Adolph Ruth bridge(El Camino Viejo Rd) and found the stone(s) date unknown, probably 1949
(3) A highway construction crew found the stones in the construction of the additional bridge span, circa 1965-1966 and they somehow came into the hands of the Tumlinson's.

Of the three, I think, option 1 has the most credibility.

Old,

I don't think I ever heard the highway construction crew story (1965-1966) or if I did I have forgotten. Travis Tumlinson died in 1961 so it doesn't work at all. In Garman's book, I think he wrote that he became aware of the stones when he first met Travis and Robert in Millsite Canyon in 1952 and in Clarence Mitchell's book I think we find the 1949 date.

There are other scenarios of the story in Dr. Glover's book. In those, Travis purchased the stones. Of course it those stories are true, the maps were never buried in the first place and this research is simply a curiosity. Another option which was passed on by more that one acquaintance in Texas is that Travis carved the stones. If true, again the discovery site of the stones is moot. I just like a good mystery.

I'm not sure where Bernice McGee got the story of the discovery site as being at the old bridge but I strongly suspect it came from Clarence Mitchell.

Garry

 

[Azquester]

I took the Liberty of Wayne's photo and created a new scenario.

When Travis pulled off the road he stated he jumped a fence at the entrance to a burro pit. The only entrance was right after the bridge like the photo Wayne pasted from 1966.
If he did pull off the road the only place back then would have been next to the old wagon trail along the old Spanish route. This was on the north west corner of the bridge if this was in existence back then. Arrow head hunters look for disturbed ground like plowing or animal pens in this case a burro mud pit. He saw the wonderful cactus grafted into a Christian cross and went over to investigate. That was when the cactus was outside of the old pit in the bushes. This was the cactus marker I heard about years ago. Take a look at it in the street view photo and from straight above in google earth. You would need permission from the land owner but you can see the same pot holes back filled in both area's.





View attachment 1168771 View attachment 1168772 View attachment 1168773 View attachment 1168774

 

[Old]

Garry, I'm picking up all that from the Bernice/Jack McGee article.

They say........Glenn Magill is the primary source for the Adolph Ruth Bridge ( El Camino Viejo Rd) version and indicate Marlowe agreed with it. But; portions of the article attributed to Marlowe are in conflict with this. According to the article, L. G. (Doc) Rosecrans is the source for the version of the highway ".....graders who were working the new lane of highway being added to Highway 80-60...". I put the date of 1966 on this story based on the Arizona Memory Project photo date.........which could be a bad assumption on my part.

 

[somehiker]

Somehiker wrote


Have you seen the cloth map?

Nope. And from what Grace was saying in her letter to Bernice...they hadn't seen one either.
But they HAD seen ....in Travis Tumlinson's possession, a "perfect replica of maps (2 and 3) on a white cloth".



This is what you said a couple of days ago...

" I can see Wayne's point that in the way it is stated, it sounds like she is saying the cloth is a replica, just wish it was absolutely certain so it could not be a question lingering. "

Not true, since I am of the opinion that Travis had made a set of replicas of the map stones (2 and 3 as the Mitchells and McGee both referred to them) using stone slabs collected during his trips between Oregon and Texas.....and that these replicas, which could only have been made by someone who had the original stones to use as a pattern, rather than from a photo or scale drawing for example, were resting upon a white cloth when shown to the Mitchells by Travis Tumlinson himself.

https://www.google.com/search?q=dremel+duplicator+plans&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Hope this helps.

Regards:Wayne

 

[Oroblanco]

Nope. And from what Grace was saying in her letter to Bernice...they hadn't seen one either.
But they HAD seen ....in Travis Tumlinson's possession, a "perfect replica of maps (2 and 3) on a white cloth".

View attachment 1168912

This is what you said a couple of days ago...

" I can see Wayne's point that in the way it is stated, it sounds like she is saying the cloth is a replica, just wish it was absolutely certain so it could not be a question lingering. "

Not true, since I am of the opinion that Travis had made a set of replicas of the map stones (2 and 3 as the Mitchells and McGee both referred to them) using stone slabs collected during his trips between Oregon and Texas.....and that these replicas, which could only have been made by someone who had the original stones to use as a pattern, rather than from a photo or scale drawing for example, were resting upon a white cloth when shown to the Mitchells by Travis Tumlinson himself.

https://www.google.com/search?q=dremel+duplicator+plans&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Hope this helps.

Regards:Wayne

I have seen the carving duplicators, in fact have been watching for a reasonable priced one for gunstock work but have never seen one used on stone. I don't doubt that they would work for stone. Not sure I can agree with your interpretation there however, for if it were a set of carved STONE replicas, why bother to mention the size of the cloth? Wouldn't it be easier and simpler to just make cast copies, as others have? And if it is a copy on cloth, would you not like to see it? <Or a photo of it at least?> Every piece of information contributes something. But not to exasperate you by discussing it further, seems you have all the info you need so I will drop it.

 

[Oroblanco]

Wayne and/or moderators, this attachment would not open for me, and returned "invalid attachment" error:
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1168912

 

[Oroblanco]

I guess I have to add one last bit - I understand Somehiker's objection to the idea of "perfect replicas" on cloth, compared to 3 dimensional stone maps. However most people think of maps as 2 dimensional, not 3 D, and the basic information could be duplicated on a flat surface just as photos do. Flat 2D copies would not convey subtle 3D features, nor include removable stone inserts or sticks for drill holes, but to many people that would be superfluous. Why bother to even take photos of the stone maps at all, if you must have 3 D copies to really use them?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Wayne and/or moderators, this attachment would not open for me, and returned "invalid attachment" error:
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1168912

Opens or me...

 

[Oroblanco]

Opens or me...

Just tried it again, here is the error message I get:
Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

It is not a biggie, I have the letter he is trying to post just thought I would let you know. I am using Internet Explorer 11.0.7 on a Windows 8.1 platform if that helps?

 

[releventchair]

Invalid for myself as well.

 

[deducer]

Every piece of information contributes something. But not to exasperate you by discussing it further, seems you have all the info you need so I will drop it.

I can't speak for SH, but I don't think he would ever get tired of intelligently discussing all aspects of this tale.

My question here would be that if the trail stones are in fact replicas, this would mean that all the chips, holes, dents, on the back of the lower trail map (DON) would have been faithfully reproduced. Not impossible, but certainly very time-intensive, I would imagine.

Would Travis Tumlinson be the sort of person to go to such lengths?

 

[RG1976]

I can't speak for SH, but I don't think he would ever get tired of intelligently discussing all aspects of this tale.

My question here would be that if the trail stones are in fact replicas, this would mean that all the chips, holes, dents, on the back of the lower trail map (DON) would have been faithfully reproduced. Not impossible, but certainly very time-intensive, I would imagine.

Would Travis Tumlinson be the sort of person to go to such lengths?

He did carve the treasure chest stone - as well as all the writings on his chimney...

I've never heard of anyone, save him, that does stuff like that.

 

[Oroblanco]

Travis having done stone carvings, on Spanish treasure type subjects, was a big red flag for me. However I don't put too much trust in any kind of treasure map and especially any that has been in the public eye, for it is a certainty that many others have tried using the maps and mostly without success. Really the only way to find out if the Peralta stone maps are valid is to try using them, and if a treasure is found, that would pretty much settle it beyond dispute.