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 My honest opinion on this:
Yes - in the past 6 weeks Ive been a member here, I have logged quite a few miles in the SWA. Ive learned a lot.
Did Waltz have a mine? I don't know....
The basis of the story goes something like this, interpreted with a bit of devil's advocate.
1) The Peralta's had mines in the SWA that caught the attention of the Natives that resulted in the extermination of the majority of their family.
2) Waltz made friends with one surviving member - was taken to the mine and mined it heavily. (except, it seems his financial lifestyle didn't change to equal the gold he found)
3) Folks claim that Waltz killed people to protect his interests in the mine, perhaps even his nephew.
4) Waltz supposedly bailed out Julia Thomas' business, sent his sister hundreds of thousands of dollars - but kept a big bag o' gold under his bed, which was never robbed at gun point. (what did he do with the gold when he left to go mining again? This was, in fact, the wild wild west)
4) Waltz gets pnemonia (but doesn't use the gold he found to hire in the best doctors to save / help him) and dies on a deathbed where he gave clues to a woman that eventually changed them all and is now known as a fraudster. Waltz was also buried in a "humble" grave - that doesn't beget the graves of other people that died that were worth a lot of money. The other person that folks claim to be there is the same guy (Holmes) that Waltz supposedly pulled a gun on for following him, but now that he is dying, gave all his clues to his "stalker" - which legend says was totally hammered drunk at the time.
5) If Holmes was there, his son wrote a manuscript about Waltz, which he denies ever writing or knowing anything about. This manuscript suddenly appeared in the ASU library and was published into a book by Thomas Glover.
6) The book published by Glover has a lot of great information, if accurate. If it was accurate, The Holmes family sure didn't find the mine - so how accurate was it?
7) Some stone maps were found on the side of the freeway by a guy on vacation that stopped to relieve himself, that have been critically reviewed. The majority feel they are fraudulent, but there are big proponents into their validity as well. Because they were found in the area close to the SWA - people automatically assume they "must" be in relation to the LDM - but as of today, are unable to be decoded by anyone.
8) Upwards of 10,000+ people have searched the SWA for the mine - and as of today hasn't been publicly announced as being found. (except, there are excuses that maybe it has been found by someone who didn't want to say they found it)
9) Almost all areas in the South West USA have legends that revolve around Spanish treasure, attacked by the Native's, the Natives buried the treasure only to be found by an "older white male" that claims to have made millions...but then dies shortly there after - to be lost forever.
10) Hundeds - maybe millions, have been made keeping this legend alive. It started with Julia Thomas, who sold her story to Bicknell and published it in the San Francisco Chronicle - which set off one of the biggest treasure legends in the country.
11) A vast majority of people know exactly where the LDM is - because they found it on Google Earth - but have never stepped foot into the state of Arizona, or at a minimum the Superstition Range.
12) Countless clues are available to search on the internet, that people will say are legitimate clues left by the Dutchman. Most people will align themselves to the clues that best suit their ideas.
 If I missed anything - let me know. But so far, that is what I have learned in the past few weeks.
Okay - so...to recap.
Waltz gave Holmes the gold stash under the bed and then gave him bad clues in "exchange" for the gold. Waltz also pulled a gun on Holmes, after Holmes was caught following him (previous to his death).
Waltz gave Thomas authentic clues - which were worthless to her - then she later changed them all to sell as part of fake maps to the public.
What a mess! lol
Oroblanco - thank you for spending so much time typing all that out. I'm certainly not one to argue someone's opinion - we are all entitled to it. I learned a lot from your post - but for me - I side with Cubfan64 and the assessment that he provided on behalf of his friend.
Many will agree with you - and many with agree with Paul. It doesn't make any of us right or wrong.
I sincerely hope that someone does find the treasure - and perhaps I will stumble across is during my next video. I promise to post photos!
I was reading up on clues that Waltz supposedly gave on his death bed.
One caught my attention.
Jacob Waltz said: "When I first saw the shaft the Mexicans had a ladder going straight down upon the vein. It was studded with pin nuggets with solid gold wire and the extended quartz out crop went on for 400 feet on the surface right down to the ravine. I saw a 4 foot by 4 foot vertical shaft 12 feet deep which I've expanded to 6.5 feet all around. At the 6 foot down level I laid crossed logs on the ledge ending 2 feet from the top...I then covered the logs with dirt and rocks so you could drive a mule train right over it and never know it was there. My stash place is right across the small ravine and under a small ledge hidden by deep brush so you can't see it until your right up on it. Find the house ruins and then go up too the stash and find my mine."
Does that fit the Pit Mine?
Oroblanco - thank you for spending so much time typing all that out. I'm certainly not one to argue someone's opinion - we are all entitled to it. I learned a lot from your post - but for me - I side with Cubfan64 and the assessment that he provided on behalf of his friend.
Many will agree with you - and many with agree with Paul. It doesn't make any of us right or wrong.
I sincerely hope that someone does find the treasure - and perhaps I will stumble across is during my next video. I promise to post photos!
the government didnt turn the supers into a wilderness to stop developers from building.....the supers were wilderness long before all those houses were built on the west end...they made it a wilderness to keep us out
RG1976 ]
One thing he told his friend Reiney when he was trying to tell him how to find the mine and cache, as Reiney was not paying attention:
"Reiney you better listen! That mine is hard to find, even when you know where it is!"
If that statement is true, and with over 100 years and many thousands of unsuccessful searchers to support it, then finding the mine is NOT going to be any easy task.
Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek. Please do continue, sorry for another long winded post.
Oroblanco
RG1976 wrote
I have to agree with you in part, and certainly have a lot of respect for Cubfan's assessment, as well as that of some others. It is possible that Waltz had no gold mine. I can not agree, for there are several sticking points.
One - there is that beautiful matchbox, so famous from TV and magazines. The ore used to make that, along with the cufflinks and a few other specimens that survive, does not seem to match any known gold mine in AZ. If Waltz simply was taking it from some other mine, what mine is it? That mine which produced those specimens has not been found. We have the info from Holmes assay, and can see that the ore is fairly unusual for Arizona in that it has coarse grains, and has a high gold to silver ratio. This points to a somewhat rare type of gold vein, not the more common type that would pinch out in a pocket. Waltz even (supposedly) vehemently denied that his mine was just a rich pocket, which is where that famous saying about enough gold remaining in the mine, showing, to make millionaires of twenty men (at the old $20.67 per ounce price). If Waltz had no gold mine where did the ore you can see in the matchbox come from? Hmm can't seem to say this in a few words but that gold we can see in that matchbox, came from a mine somewhere, we have Waltz's story and only speculations against it. I would like to find the mine that produced that ore you can see in the matchbox.
Second, we can look at the actions of the people who knew Waltz. Julia, Reiney and Dick Holmes all searched for the mine and cache. If Waltz had no mine, why did they believe he did? He did not register a claim so it would not be something in the line of legal property to bequeath or bargain in any agreement, as with his neighbor Starar. A lot of BS and nonsense has been layered onto the original story, but at the root we had a German immigrant whom had proved himself a successful prospector (he found three good gold mines in the Bradshaws and had worked at mines in CA) and whom was able to come up with a sizable sum of money in gold to help out Julia and Reiney. If someone can explain this and show how the man Waltz would lie to his closest friends, the same people he was willing to give his own gold to save their business remember, then perhaps we can assume there was no mine. By the way, if Waltz were lying, that lie could have gotten his friends KILLED searching for a non-existent mine. Does that make sense to you?
Third - there really IS gold in the Superstition mountains, including inside the Wilderness Area boundaries. Yes most of the area is the wrong type of rock for gold, but remember gold deposits are not usually formed when the rock is being formed, it is deposited by water solutions working into cracks and crevices in the country rock, much later than the original time when the rock was laid down that is the mountains now. There are signs of hydrothermal activity over large areas of the Superstitions especially on the fringes, and hydrothermal activity is what creates gold in quartz veins. The Superstitions may look to be a most unpromising place to prospect, but there really is reason to look for gold (and silver) there. Even if there were no Lost Dutchman's gold mine to hunt for, you just might find a vein of gold or silver anyway!
 
Azdave35 wrote
 
If that law was put in place simply to keep us out, then it is not working very well is it? Thousands of people are hiking into the Superstitions every single day, and I dare say a large percentage are looking for a lost gold mine even if they claim they are just hiking. I would suggest to talk to your senator McCain and see what he says - he even seems to have been led to believe that prospecting would continue to be allowed, as the Act really does allow it. Look at a satellite photo of the area and you can see a SEA of houses and even shopping centers creeping right up to the mountains. The Wilderness label protected it from that, remember they could have declared it a PARK or Monument, with far more restrictive regulations including that you could not hunt in it or camp without a permit, plus have to pay a fee just to enter them!
I also must respectfully disagree, the Superstitions were hardly a "wilderness" prior to being put under that Wilderness Act. Cattle and horses were being pastured in those mountains for over a century, and not just one or two but many, there were prospectors shacks and camps dotting the mountains, fairly good trails, fences, man-developed water sources and several ranches that are now gone (First Water, Tortilla for examples) so really it is a MAN-MADE "wilderness" for prior to the Act taking force, it really was no more "wilderness" than a great many areas where cattle are pastured, prospector camps and trappers cabins are located. Even the growth of the brush and cactus are different than it was just thirty years ago, since the cattle were removed the brush has grown quite thick in many areas where it was quite open, and now we have fire danger there all too often.
Side thing here but a couple of years ago Beth and I went to a place we had not been to in nearly thirty years, and it had changed so much, from the growth of brush, cactus etc that I could hardly recognize it. The major landmarks were the same of course, but where we had camped and hiked 30 years ago, now you could hardly wedge yourself through the brush.
To all - don't go hiking in the Superstition mountains expecting you will happen on to the Lost Dutchman's mine; there is reason to believe that Waltz spent some effort to conceal it, and it very likely has NO huge funnel shaped pit or tunnel. One source said the opening was no larger than a barrel, and this would make perfect sense for the small amounts of gold that Waltz was seen selling. If he had really excavated out a huge pit and tunnel, with the ore running nearly one third gold, where did all that gold go? That statement attributed to Waltz about your being able to drive an Army pack train over the mine and never see it, may well be true! One thing he told his friend Reiney when he was trying to tell him how to find the mine and cache, as Reiney was not paying attention:
"Reiney you better listen! That mine is hard to find, even when you know where it is!"
If that statement is true, and with over 100 years and many thousands of unsuccessful searchers to support it, then finding the mine is NOT going to be any easy task.
Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek. Please do continue, sorry for another long winded post.
Oroblanco
I also must respectfully disagree, the Superstitions were hardly a "wilderness" prior to being put under that Wilderness Act. Cattle and horses were being pastured in those mountains for over a century, and not just one or two but many, there were prospectors shacks and camps dotting the mountains, fairly good trails, fences, man-developed water sources and several ranches that are now gone (First Water, Tortilla for examples) so really it is a MAN-MADE "wilderness" for prior to the Act taking force, it really was no more "wilderness" than a great many areas where cattle are pastured, prospector camps and trappers cabins are located. Even the growth of the brush and cactus are different than it was just thirty years ago, since the cattle were removed the brush has grown quite thick in many areas where it was quite open, and now we have fire danger there all too often.
Yes. There is a house ruin nearby. Hard to find if you don't have the cords. All overgrown.