Walt Gasslers Notes on Dutchman Legend

[Azquester]

My question is for the Real Roland.

Mr. Gassler,

When you showed up for the slide show given by TK after your father's (Walter's) death and told him you were the real Roland did he immediately call Bob Corbin before he talked with you again? I found a quote that someone posted that said Tom had written he called Bob before continuing the conversation.

Did that seem odd to you?

Thanks in advance.

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Yer cute Mike, Pedo bait

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

got 21 years on you Joe,ya kiddie, but Happy, premature, Birthday..

 

[hooch]

This is why I ride a mountain goat. Horses are for girls

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hooch, the next best is a good Mexican riding mule. My mule would set her own pace, stop when she was pooped, then go on without pushing. She was almost perfect, except that she wouldn.t cross a bridge if there was a crack in the floor.

TYpical mule country.

 

[gollum]

Nice picture Mike, you haven't changed much, still bigger than the horse.

You've been peeking in the shower? HAHAHA

 

[gollum]

I think that 18 mile estimate only works if your horse is Pegasus and flies in on a straight line <g>. I’m thinking it’s more like a 32 mile round trip (at least) where you’d have to navigate around ridges and steep drops. 32 miles is do-able but at slow and cautious speeds it would be an all day trip.

I don’t have the personal experiences you guys have and can only go by the hiking trail photos and videos. Although I’d be concerned about pulling a shoe, the photos show terrain that is tricky but not impossible. But; I could be very wrong. That’s why I’m asking.

The point of all this is that the folks that say they turned up during Mr. Gassler’s trip and the ones that found him weren’t just passing through on an afternoon ride. If they were in fact there and met up with Mr. Gassler I don’t think it was accidental. They were purposely in that area and went to considerable effort to be there. That doesn’t imply any bad motive. I would think it was more of a having a look see about what the old gentleman was up to. I’m thinking any bad actions came after the sheriff took his inventory, not before.

Of course all that goes out the window if Dave is correct that this was a study stream of traffic area. Kind of a Grand Central Station. That just doesn't fit for my idea of a prime location for Jake's lost and lonesome mine site. That could just be my Hollywood vision of the setting of Jake's mine

Hey Mike were your grandfathers Walkers show Walkers or flat shod? I’ve never shown Walkers but have been a co-exhibitor at many shows where they attend. Those folks know how to have a good time <g>. Some of the more memorable barn parties.

Nothing but Show Walkers (no trail horses). As of the date of his death (1986), he was only only person in the history of The Celebration (Tennessee Walking Horse National Celebration) to be asked to be the Head Judge twice. His name was B.H. McChesney. Here he is on (I believe) Swampcat (National Champion):



Another shot of him at The Celebration(holding the money):



He always went by either Mac or BH McChesney. He didn't like his given name (Bedford Hamby McChesney).

Mike

 

[deducer]

actually the ok (and any of the other riding stables) arent in apache junction...they are and were all located around the goldfield area..at the base of the mountains..and if they were packing you in they usually trailered the horses to the trailhead and you left on horseback from there

I don't know why I keep thinking they are in AJ or the stables are there- maybe because I keep seeing riders crossing the road just before the museum and after the rt. 88 turnoff?

 

[deducer]

Deducer you are right. I was measuring from the OK location to Charlebois Sp. That's where I'm coming up with a much longer round trip.

I apologize. I have a real knack for confusing several different elements of the story together. That's what's confusing the distances.

Dan Shade and Gene Baker "probably" left from the ranch. If they had taken the truck and trailer I think Mr. Feldman would have remembered that. Could be wrong.

Where Dan Russell and TK left from I do not know but that's more likely from the trail head and would have been a shorter distance. Still not a walk in the park ride, but shorter.

Absolutely no need to apologize. This forum isn't about who's right or who's wrong. It's a place for people to share information and theories, hopefully without descending into personal attacks.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

To heck with the horse and rider Mike, who is the cute broad ??

Incidentally about that shower remark --------- I'll have you know, that like you Corozone isn't one of them.

 

[coazon de oro]

I guess I deserve that Mike.

 

[RWGassler]

Bill,
When I met Tom at the slide show there was only a conversation between the two of us and he did not make any calls before or during our conversation. What he did after I left I don't know.
RWGassler

 

[Garry]

Thanks for the reply Deducer,

What are you trying to tell me? That its too far for one day? Terrain too tough? Can't get there by horse? Sorry, I'm dense.

How many foot miles is it and what's the nature of the path to get there?

There has always been speculation that Mr. Gassler was packed into his camp. I don't know whether that's a real possibility or not.

Lynda,

I know you have probably got all of this figured out by now but this reference provides some mileages beyond, “as the crow flies”.

The Dutchman’s trail leaves the Trailhead at First Water and continues for 17.4 Miles to the Peralta Trailhead.

From Superstition Wilderness Trails West by Jack Carlson and Elizabeth Stewart (Pg 243)

The Dutchman trail leaves the east side of the First Water Trailhead parking lot and heads east down a rough dirt road. In about 0.3 mile, the Dutchman’s Trail meets the Second Water Trail continues; to Parker Pass in 2.5 miles, Aylor’s Camp in 4.5 miles, Charlebois Spring in 8.5 miles, Bluff Springs in 12 miles and ends at the Peralta Trailhead in 17.4 miles.

It appears that Walters intention, a few months earlier, on his first try from the Peralta Trailhead was to reach Charlebois Springs also.

From Jack Carlson’s numbers that would be about 8.9 miles and his last trip from First Water would have been 8.5 miles. [If Walter was using the Dutchman’s Trail and not trying some “shortcuts” those numbers should be close.]

I personally have seen nothing other than unsupported stories that Roland Gassler got the story wrong and that his father was “packed” into the mountains on horseback from First Water. If you believe Roland, which I do, Walter’s wife, Coletta, drove Walter to the First Water Trailhead and Walter hiked in. They have no idea what Walter was capable of at that age. I can go a long ways if I'm not in a rush although I'm not quite Walter's age yet.

I know a sinister conspiracy is much more exciting for some treasure hunters.

Garry

 

[Azquester]

Thanks Roland.

I also read somewhere that the police report, or coroners report, had a backpack or knapsack listed as one of the possessions he had when he was transported out of the superstitions.

But, later on, when you went to retrieve his personal effects there was no knapsack included. Was there any mention of his knapsack on any documents other than the verbal comments made by the people that found him or possibly his wife and your Mother?

Do you have any pictures of the knapsack he had on?

 

[Old]

I'm just exploring what I consider extraordinary details to Mr. Gassler's story.

I know I will probably step on many toes but what I find really hard to explain is how accepting most people are of some very extraordinary events surrounding this story.

The only thing I find NOT extraordinary is that an older gentleman went out hiking in 96 degree heat and died of a heart attack.

The rest of it is riddled with inconsistences, contradictory statements, improbable time lines, loss of property within custodial possession of law enforcement, theft by misrepresentation; and topped off with a misdirection (nicest word I could come up with) of personal property. That all of that is accepted as ho hum status quo is beyond comprehension to me.

 

[hooch]

If there were yellow moons, purple hearts, blue diamonds and green clovers added to this story I would believe it for sure. Since there's not I believe it to be pure bull...

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Please watch the language!

 

[azdave35]

I'm just exploring what I consider extraordinary details to Mr. Gassler's story.

I know I will probably step on many toes but what I find really hard to explain is how accepting most people are of some very extraordinary events surrounding this story.

The only thing I find NOT extraordinary is that an older gentleman went out hiking in 96 degree heat and died of a heart attack.

The rest of it is riddled with inconsistences, contradictory statements, improbable time lines, loss of property within custodial possession of law enforcement, theft by misrepresentation; and topped off with a misdirection (nicest word I could come up with) of personal property. That all of that is accepted as ho hum status quo is beyond comprehension to me.

lynda....actually it isnt out of the ordinary for older folks to go up in the mountains in the summer...just last summer an elderly couple went hiking and one of them died on the trail...quite a few go up there in the summer....in gasslers case he thought he found the big one up there and no way he was going to wait till october...he had been going up in the supers all his life and nobody could have stopped him from going......the story around here is his wife dropped him off at the trailhead and he walked in....and thats not out of the ordinary either...i have a friend that does the same thing...one of his friends drop him off at the trailhead and pick him up in a couple weeks when he is ready to come home

 

[Old]

Yeap Dave, I don't have any problem with that part of the story. My Dad would have been the same way. Its "the rest" of the story that gets down right kinky.

 

[gollum]

I'm just exploring what I consider extraordinary details to Mr. Gassler's story.

I know I will probably step on many toes but what I find really hard to explain is how accepting most people are of some very extraordinary events surrounding this story.

The only thing I find NOT extraordinary is that an older gentleman went out hiking in 96 degree heat and died of a heart attack.

The rest of it is riddled with inconsistences, contradictory statements, improbable time lines, loss of property within custodial possession of law enforcement, theft by misrepresentation; and topped off with a misdirection (nicest word I could come up with) of personal property. That all of that is accepted as ho hum status quo is beyond comprehension to me.

Lynda,

Walter had been going into the Supers looking for the Dutchman since the early 1930's. If he had never been in the Supers before, I might agree with you. This man was a local and had a ton of experience in those mountains. He had an established camp by Peter's Mesa. I don't know if he spent all his (approximately)50 years of Dutch Hunting in the same area by Peter's Mesa, but I think that with that many years of going back and forth to the same place for so long, that it wasn't a bother for him.

When I get home, I will post a video of Al Reser in an episode of Copper State Chronicles. In it, he states "I am 84 years old, and there's no place in those mountains I won't go now that I would go fifty years ago." (paraphrasing) Then, with his hiking stick and backpack, he heads right uphill at a pace that I couldn't keep up with now (maybe). HAHAHA


Mike