Walt Gasslers Notes on Dutchman Legend

[deducer]

deducer,

At this point in my life, you are like an old friend......pointing out my faults and keeping me on my toes. We have both come a long ways from our initial meeting over the Stone Maps.

I have not made an issue over the TNet rules, but much like you, I often bend them a bit, which does not mean I don't understand them. I did not bring up your issue of needing a college education to understand the need for reliable sources. No one, that I know, believes it's a TNet rule. You are the one who felt the need to bring that into this conversation.

Some really good points have been made in this topic, and I don't believe I took the conversation astray. It seems that Mr. Gassler has never heard of his father's good friend, Matthew Roberts, nor has his mother. The Apache elders at San Carlos are plagued with the same failing memory problems it seems. For me, these kinds of things place doubts on any new stories that come down the line, including any new "facts" concerning Walter Gassler.

I know you are quite happy with all these new "facts" and new, unknown, sources but many of us have trouble swallowing such stuff. No doubt that has something to do with our lack of higher education as well.

That is why I'm so happy you have returned after a short absence. We can always use a qualified professor to point us in the right direction. I know you have had health problems in the past, so I hope that is not why you were gone for that silent period.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

No health issues, but thanks for your concern. I have been busy with several projects and traveling.

Anyway we should probably get back to the subject of this thread: Walt Gassler's notes.

 

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[Azquester]

Oro,

I'm going off memory here but from what I recall of the unsolved mysteries show it was Bob Corbin that gave the fake Roland the back pack as he had possession of it at the time from the coroner.
I may be mistaken but I do recall it being passed to the Fake Roland and the fake Roland contacting more then one person about his Fathers possessions. From the show. Or it may have been another show about it at the time.

Actually it is not clear that the IMPOSTER Roland knew who or whom had Walter's notes. Perhaps it might help us to re-read the transcript:


from the Unsolved Mysteries episode

and from Helen Corbin's FIRST book (NOT the "Bible")


Next point here but the REAL Roland Gassler never got his father's backpack, although it is listed among the items recovered with the body. It was the IMPOSTER that claimed he had taken the ore Tom K. described as EXACTLY like LDM ore from the backpack. The obvious solution here is that the IMPOSTER somehow got possession of Walt Gassler's backpack. So the fact that the REAL Roland never saw such ore in his father's possession is not odd at all, since he did not get possession of his father's backpack. This also implies that the ore was obtained in Walt's last trip.

As to the comments about how to pick the gems of truth, I would point out that this is the Treasure LEGENDS forum, not the national archives and public records. We are dealing with stories that are sometimes supported by documentation, sometimes none at all. To expect any of these stories to be backed up by official records, historic photos and documents is unrealistic. All are free to choose NOT to pursue any kind of treasure LEGEND which is not supported by hard evidence, and of course you will never find one by not looking. It is nice to have solid evidence of course, but unrealistic to expect or demand that such evidence be produced to "prove" a treasure story is factual.

Not every point CAN be proven or disproven; as with the story of the IMPOSTER Roland Gassler showing what appeared to be LDM ore to Tom K. For me, it appears that the IMPOSTER was trying to get possession of Walter's notes and approached Tom K as one of the leading figures in the Dutch hunting community and also one of the most approachable. It is not clear that he "knew" Tom to have them. The ore he showed and stated it had come from Walt's backpack, I see no reason to doubt. Why bother to show it at all, or say that it came from Walt's pack, when he could have simply said he wanted the notes for family mementoes? On the other hand, an IMPOSTER that found Walter dead OR simply showed up when the body and belongings were being brought out, may well have had opportunity to grab the pack, found the ore inside just as he claimed, and this led him to want Gassler's notes to help him find the mine. Other theories may work too, but this seems most logical to me. It also would explain why the backpack found with Walt and listed on the inventory, had vanished by the time the REAL Roland Gassler arrived.

Good luck and good hunting to you all, just thought perhaps a couple of points should be cleared up as it is easy to get misconceptions that lead to false conclusions - like assuming that the IMPOSTER somehow KNEW that Tom K had the notes, which is not clear at all, rather it appears that the imposter was looking for them, and did not know who had the notes; also that it was the imposter that showed the ore and stated it came from Walter's pack, not the real Roland.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[Old]

The one thing I have found out for certain in this discussion is just how much I don't know. Loads of unanswered questions here.

The Charlebois Spring area is supposed to be one of the more remote and less traveled areas. To you locals, is that true?

If true, it was pretty busy during the time Mr. Gassler was there on his last trip.

TK tells us he rode out on May 2 and chatted with Mr. Gassler. Supposedly a Dan Russell encountered and chatted with Mr. Gassler around noon on May 4. Dan Shade and Gene Baker just happened to be riding a rather steep off trail incline when they encountered the body of Mr. Gassler. All the while being overlooked by the mysterious figure darting in and out of the brush above the location.

Sounds to me like a rather busy location. Do you find that odd? Or, is this one of those "Hell I was there" kinda things?

 

[azdave35]

The one thing I have found out for certain in this discussion is just how much I don't know. Loads of unanswered questions here.

The Charlebois Spring area is supposed to be one of the more remote and less traveled areas. To you locals, is that true?

If true, it was pretty busy during the time Mr. Gassler was there on his last trip.

TK tells us he rode out on May 2 and chatted with Mr. Gassler. Supposedly a Dan Russell encountered and chatted with Mr. Gassler around noon on May 4. Dan Shade and Gene Baker just happened to be riding a rather steep off trail incline when they encountered the body of Mr. Gassler. All the while being overlooked by the mysterious figure darting in and out of the brush above the location.

Sounds to me like a rather busy location. Do you find that odd? Or, is this one of those "Hell I was there" kinda things?

yes...charlebois spring is kind of a hotbed for dutch hunters..its close to peters mesa....la barge canyon...black mountain...many of the well known hunters were in that area when gassler was there including crazy jake..and a quite a few of the modern hunters i know concentrate their search around there...so it wouldn't be odd to run into other dutch hunters there

 

[Oroblanco]

Oro,

I'm going off memory here but from what I recall of the unsolved mysteries show it was Bob Corbin that gave the fake Roland the back pack as he had possession of it at the time from the coroner.
I may be mistaken but I do recall it being passed to the Fake Roland and the fake Roland contacting more then one person about his Fathers possessions. From the show. Or it may have been another show about it at the time.

I believe your memory may be a bit off there. There is no mention of any time when Bob Corbin had possession of the backpack, nor giving it to the imposter Roland. I did a quick search online and can not find that episode available, and do not have a way to put my own copy online. However perhaps someone has a link or a way to post that episode, which is legal so long as we are not doing it for profit, and only for discussion.

 

[Oroblanco]

May God bless Smoky. I am wondering what metal detector that he use.

A most powerful and sensitive one, concentrated in olfactory nerves! Of course his idea of what a buried treasure is, and what humans think may well differ.

 

[gollum]

Okay,

I see that nobody is able to watch the Unsolved Mysteries Lost Dutchman Episode from 03/15/1989. I posted it on Youtube, so I could link to it here:



Bill,

Sorry, but Bob never even met (much less gave him anything) the "fake" Roland Gassler.

Now, from that video, the story at the time was that Walt Gassler had contacted both Bob C and Tom K wanting them to go with him into the mountains. Neither one could on the spur of the moment. The video shows Tom K handing the manuscript over to the fake Roland Gassler. The faker asked for his dad's map, and Tom K says that he didn't have the map, but he did have the manuscript, and handed it over. It didn't say if it was a copy or the original though.

................ another thing the video reminded me of was that Don Shade not only saw the man on the ridge above Gassler's Body, but when that man was described to Tom K, he said the description sounded just like the fake Roland Gassler. Don Shade knew who that man was, but took the secret to his grave. Sounds a lot like Walt Gassler found something, but didn't tell anybody everything. Whomever got the backpack may have found samples of ore Gassler had found.

I am still trying to find Bob C's quote in which he said that Gassler told him about the ore specimens when they met at Corbin's Office, where Walt Gassler handed Corbin a copy of his manuscript, and showed him his map. While it is not specifically stated what happened to the map, I can only assume either he gave it to Bob C as well, or it was in his pack, and disappeared. The second idea is highly unlikely though, because in the video, Tom recounted telling the Fake Roland Gassler he didn't have the map, just the manuscript.

Enjoy - Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Okay,

I see that nobody is able to watch the Unsolved Mysteries Lost Dutchman Episode from 03/15/1989. I posted it on Youtube, so I could link to it here:



Bill,

Sorry, but Bob never even met (much less gave him anything) the "fake" Roland Gassler.

Now, from that video, the story at the time was that Walt Gassler had contacted both Bob C and Tom K wanting them to go with him into the mountains. Neither one could on the spur of the moment. The video shows Tom K handing the manuscript over to the fake Roland Gassler. The faker asked for his dad's map, and Tom K says that he didn't have the map, but he did have the manuscript, and handed it over. It didn't say if it was a copy or the original though.

................ another thing the video reminded me of was that Don Shade not only saw the man on the ridge above Gassler's Body, but when that man was described to Tom K, he said the description sounded just like the fake Roland Gassler. Don Shade knew who that man was, but took the secret to his grave. Sounds a lot like Walt Gassler found something, but didn't tell anybody everything. Whomever got the backpack may have found samples of ore Gassler had found.

I am still trying to find Bob C's quote in which he said that Gassler told him about the ore specimens when they met at Corbin's Office, where Walt Gassler handed Corbin a copy of his manuscript, and showed him his map. While it is not specifically stated what happened to the map, I can only assume either he gave it to Bob C as well, or it was in his pack, and disappeared. The second idea is highly unlikely though, because in the video, Tom recounted telling the Fake Roland Gassler he didn't have the map, just the manuscript.

Enjoy - Mike

Mike,

Bob only met Walter Gassler that one time, in his office, "at exactly 12:00 noon on December 12, 1983." Walter told him "He was close to finding the mine." Bob had heard this same claim hundreds of times before.

At no time did Walter Gassler ever show Bob Corbin or Tom Kollenborn any ore, Duutchman or otherwise. The entire story of the Gassler tale can be found in Helen Corbin's "The Curse Of The Dutchman's Gold" starting on page 211. This was prior to Helen being given "manufactured" historical pioneer diaries, manuscripts and assorted forged documents for her second book on the LDM.

In that respect, you can be confident that her sources were her husband Bob Corbin, and their good friend Tom Kollenborn. For me, it doesn't get any better than that.

If someone now comes along with the "Hell I Was There" syndrome, with some new evidence directly from Mr. Gassler himself, I would suggest everyone be wary, even though he may be backed up by some very well known/respected Dutch Hunters.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[azdave35]

Mike,

Bob only met Walter Gassler that one time, in his office, "at exactly 12:00 noon on December 12, 1983." Walter told him "He was close to finding the mine." Bob had heard this same claim hundreds of times before.

At no time did Walter Gassler ever show Bob Corbin or Tom Kollenborn any ore, Duutchman or otherwise. The entire story of the Gassler tale can be found in Helen Corbin's "The Curse Of The Dutchman's Gold" starting on page 211. This was prior to Helen being given "manufactured" historical pioneer diaries, manuscripts and assorted forged documents for her second book on the LDM.

In that respect, you can be confident that her sources were her husband Bob Corbin, and their good friend Tom Kollenborn. For me, it doesn't get any better than that.

If someone now comes along with the "Hell I Was There" syndrome, with some new evidence directly from Mr. Gassler himself, I would suggest everyone be wary, even though he may be backed up by some very well known/respected Dutch Hunters.

Good luck,

Joe

lol...i dont think the members of this forum realize how often someone around here pops up and says he knows exactly where the mine is...after about 500 boy's that cry wolf...nobody takes them serious anymore

 

[cw0909]

thanks for posting the vid
why would someone carry a pistol that shoots blanks in the superstition mts,
from the Unsolved Mysteries link that Oroblanco had posted, last entry in img
says...small .22 blank pistol at left front

http://unsolved.com/sites/default/files2/tre_arizona_lost_dutchman_mine6.jpg
Arizona?s Lost Dutchman Mine | Unsolved more Mysteries

 

[gollum]

Some folks just aren't gun people. They feel if they need something to make a loud noise to scare away animals, they might carry something like that. I think that Walt Gassler had been wandering those mountains unarmed since about 1932. I think that by 1984 he knew exactly what he had to be afraid of out there.

Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

thanks for posting the vid
why would someone carry a pistol that shoots blanks in the superstition mts,
from the Unsolved Mysteries link that Oroblanco had posted, last entry in img
says...small .22 blank pistol at left front

http://unsolved.com/sites/default/files2/tre_arizona_lost_dutchman_mine6.jpg
Arizona?s Lost Dutchman Mine | Unsolved more Mysteries

cw,

Just a guess, but possibly as a signal gun in case of an emergency.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cw0909]

wonder if he fired it, during his emergency
prob wouldnt have saved him though, to far away from help

 

[azdave35]

lol...i dont think the members of this forum realize how often someone around here pops up and says he knows exactly where the mine is...after about 500 boy's that cry wolf...nobody takes them serious anymore

take a look at the new posts this morning and you'll understand why TK and BC rarely take anyone serious that announces they have found the mine..lol

 

[Old]

Thanks Dave, I’m having a hard time understanding the dynamics of all this. So it wasn’t unusual to run into a lot of people in that neck of the woods?

Does that go for all the time or just some of the time? My question specially being the timing on this. This happened over a time period from Tuesday to Friday. Do these people work or hunt the Dutchman full time? Is there anything special about the first week of May that would cause they people to not be on their regular job?

On another site several years ago Mr. Feldman tells us Dan Shade and Gene Baker worked at his location. That’s a long ways from this location. Mr. Feldman didn’t seem to recall what Shade was doing in this area at that particular time. He did say however that it was not Shade’s area of interest so far as LDM hunting. Seems odd to me. Seems odd that a Lot of people showed up during the work week “just passing through”.

 

[azdave35]

Thanks Dave, I’m having a hard time understanding the dynamics of all this. So it wasn’t unusual to run into a lot of people in that neck of the woods?

Does that go for all the time or just some of the time? My question specially being the timing on this. This happened over a time period from Tuesday to Friday. Do these people work or hunt the Dutchman full time? Is there anything special about the first week of May that would cause they people to not be on their regular job?

On another site several years ago Mr. Feldman tells us Dan Shade and Gene Baker worked at his location. That’s a long ways from this location. Mr. Feldman didn’t seem to recall what Shade was doing in this area at that particular time. He did say however that it was not Shade’s area of interest so far as LDM hunting. Seems odd to me. Seems odd that a Lot of people showed up during the work week “just passing through”.

lynda...most of the serious dutch hunters dont have 9-5 jobs..most of them i know do odd jobs just to make enough money so they can go hunting...lol..plus alot of hunters are retired..and alot of the people that work at the local business's like feldmans are dutch hunters too....and feldmans business isnt very far from the mountains..basicly across the highway...lol

 

[Old]

I could be very wrong on the distance issue. Looks like to me the Ok is about 9 miles as the crow flies from Charlebois Spr. Just guessing but using round abouts I'm guessing that's closer to 16 miles or so (maybe more) of cross country on horse back. There and back would be full days ride. Not so?

 

[Roadhse2]

Typo? .22 black pistol?

 

[deducer]

I could be very wrong on the distance issue. Looks like to me the Ok is about 9 miles as the crow flies from Charlebois Spr. Just guessing but using round abouts I'm guessing that's closer to 16 miles or so (maybe more) of cross country on horse back. There and back would be full days ride. Not so?

If you're willing to pay for a dead horse, it just might be.

 

[Honest Samuel]

There are people in other countries that eat horses. Not for me.