Walt Gasslers Notes on Dutchman Legend

Roy,

It would appear, sadly, that we will not be getting Matthew's answer as to whether Walt Gassler tried to get him to go into the mountains with him on that fateful trip. Perhaps he will contact us privately, but I don't hold out much hope of that.

Personally, I hate to see him go, as he was a veritable fount of information on LDM, Apache and local Arizona history. I look forward to his being able to come back, eventually.

Take care,

Joe
 

Quote Originally Posted by cactusjumper View Post
Dave,

I would say that is, likely, true. On the other hand, someone(s) is trying to make a case for the ore that was shown being the real thing. Perhaps someone is writing a book.

If that is so, I can assure you that a great deal of rewriting has been going on over the last few years......as we have been shining a great deal of light on some false stories and phony "history".

Take care,

Joe
thats what i thought...i dont remember any pics of the ore
_____________________________________________________

Good morning Dave,

Thought I would move this over to the Gassler Topic.

I wouldn't doubt that pictures of the "Gassler Ore" will turn up.....soon. Copies of original documents, such as pioneer family diaries, manuscripts and notes have been injected into LDM lore for a number of years. Some people believe the reason they are "copies" is because the originals could be authenticated.....or found to be frauds.:dontknow:

Can't help but wonder what Gassler "things" were shown to Mike. Could pictures of the ore be among those never before seen "things"? Was Mike asked not to reveal what he was shown? Who was the source of Walter Gassler's "hand written" Manuscript? Is that a secret?

Just a few questions that are floating around in my skull. They may be inconsequential or of no importance, but they do tend to linger.

Take care,

Joe
 

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This discussion seems to be getting scattered across several threads. Here is a transcript of what was broadcast on Walt Gassler, the gold ore said to have been found in his pack etc:

Almost 100 years later, a modern-day treasure hunter claimed that he had found the mine. His name was Walt Gassler. Using clues handed down from Jacob’s death-bed description, Gassler had spent most of his free time looking for the legendary mine. But when his health began to fail, Walt contacted two other prospectors. One was Bob Corbin, who was then the Attorney General of Arizona:

"He wanted to get together with me so that we could perhaps go with him and continue looking for the mine and with his directions after he had died. And he gave me his notes as well as a map as to where his camp was and where he believes the mine to be."
Two months later, Gassler called Bob’s partner, Tom Kollenborn, a local historian. According to Kollenborn, Gassler claimed that he had finally located the Dutchman’s mine:

"Walt Gassler was convinced that the mine existed from the clues that he had. Some of those clues he would not reveal. And the next morning, his wife took him out to the trail head and dropped him off."
Walt hiked alone into the Superstitions, never to be seen alive again. Three days later, his body was found by a ranch-hand, Don Shade. An autopsy proved he had died of a heart attack.

Then, one month after Walt’s death, Tom Kollenborn had a surprising visitor:

"He said he was Roland Gassler, Walt Gassler’s son. And he says, well you know my dad found the Lost Dutchman in the Superstitions and he got out this gold and showed it too me. It looked very similar to the gold that allegedly came out of the Lost Dutchman mine."

Roland wanted to use the map and notes in Tom’s possession to retrace his father’s steps. Tom obliged Roland and gave him the manuscripts. Two months passed and Tom never heard whether Roland’s search was successful. Then one night while giving a lecture, Tom was approached by a different stranger who claimed he was Roland Gassler:

"And my jaw dropped 10 foot to the ground, because it wasn’t the same guy. I said I ought to ask you for a driver’s license or something. I said you’re the second Roland Gassler I’ve run into in the last couple months."

The man showed Tom an ID that confirmed he was indeed the real Roland Gassler. It became clear that the first Roland Gassler was an imposter who only wanted Walt’s map. But where did he get the gold ore sample? When Walt died, the Sheriff’s report listed a backpack among his belongings. But the real Roland Gassler never received it. Don Shade, the man who found Walt’s body, also remembered seeing the backpack, and he noticed a stranger in the area that day:

"
There was another man in the area at the time. When Tom Kollenborn later gave us a description of the man that came to him and showed him some gold, it jibbed up with the man that we saw in here."

From Arizona?s Lost Dutchman Mine | Unsolved more Mysteries

Now I am sure that THIS level of "documentation" is far from what SOME people here would demand, before they are willing to say it is true. For me, this is fairly convincing; others certainly will disagree.

:coffee2: :coffee2:
 

This discussion seems to be getting scattered across several threads. Here is a transcript of what was broadcast on Walt Gassler, the gold ore said to have been found in his pack etc:



From Arizona?s Lost Dutchman Mine | Unsolved more Mysteries

Now I am sure that THIS level of "documentation" is far from what SOME people here would demand, before they are willing to say it is true. For me, this is fairly convincing; others certainly will disagree.

:coffee2: :coffee2:

roy...around here about once a month someone steps up and says they found the ldm.....so far its all been talk...no proof..so until someone can walk us to a mine with ore in it that even remotely resembles the known samples of the ldm ..we will go on doubting and disagreeing
 

roy...around here about once a month someone steps up and says they found the ldm.

Really? I had not noticed! :laughing7:

Now that episode of Unsolved Mysteries ran years ago, not sure exactly what year (date?) but at any rate it is not the only source we can turn to that records these events, surrounding Walt Gassler, his notes, the gold ore and whether he found the LDM or not.

Helen Corbin expanded on this Unsolved Mysteries account of Walt Gassler, the gold ore and whether he found the mine.
In May of 1984 Tom Kollenborn received a call from Walter Gassler. It was Sunday evening and the old man seemed anxious. He asked Tom if he knew where he could get hold of Bob Corbin. Tom told him his friend was enjoying a brief vacation at his cabin in Prescott and that there were no phone lines on the attorney general's mountain. Gassler seemed upset. He said he had finally figured out the puzzle and asked Tom if he could accompany him into the mountains the following day. Tom said he was truly sorry but business would prohibit him from doing so. "Besides," Tom told Bob later, "how many times have we heard that same story over the years."

On Thursday of that week Tom Kollenborn called Bob Corbin's office to tell the attorney general that Walter Gassler's body had just been found on the trail above Charleybois springs. there was to be a coroner's inquest but it looked as though he had died of a heart attack. Of course, both men were shocked and felt remorse that they hadn't been able to accompany the old man on what was to be his last journey.

That weekend a man appeared at Tom Kollenborn's home. He introduced himself as Walter Gassler's son. Tom invited the man in and after exchanging pleasantries the man brought out some rich gold ore. He said it was in his father's backpack when he was found on the trail. Tom was shocked. But, maintaining his usual dour façade, he examined the ore and later said it looked exactly like the gold which came from under the Dutchman's bed. The man listened patiently. After a bit he said, "I understand that my father gave his notes to Bob Corbin, is that true? Tom nodded, saying little, in true cowboy fashion. It was apparent the man wanted those notes back. Tom suggested he call the attorney general at his office in the state capitol, and the matter was left right there.

A week later Tom called Bob to see if he had heard from Gassler's son. Bob said no, but he would gladly give the notes up to the family; he felt that was only fair.

Again, fate seems to work in strange ways.

Tom Kollenborn is inveited regularly to show a slide presentation of the Superstitions during which he tells the tales of the Dutchman's mine, exotic tales of the 68 murders and wonderful stories of the characters who live and some who have died in those canyons. The slide show is so well accepted that it has traveled to Europe and throughout the US. This particular show was down in Florence, Arizona, the county seat of Pinal Country, home of the old Silver King, Tom Weedin and the place where the swamper was last seen. Right after the show Tom was approached by a man who stood in front of him was well-dressed and polite but bore absolutely no resemblance to the person who had come to his home with the ore. The man proceeded to make the same request about the diary and was given the same answer as Tom had given to the first man. Only this time, Tom went right to a phone to call Bob Corbin.

Two days later Bob received a call from a man claiming to be Walter Gassler's son. Bob said he was busy and would return the call shortly, then asked for a home number. That telephone number was the same one Walter Gassler had given him. This time, it appeared, he had the right son. Bob Corbin was also impressed with the fact that the man said, "I don't want to take the notes away from you; my father wanted you to have them. But, if you could Xerox them and give them to me for our family mementoes, I'd appreciate it" Of course, the attorney general complied.

The pair met for lunch. During the course of the meal, the son was politely questioned as to his father's effects which were brought into town by the sheriff's office. Bob said, "Ron, did you find your dad's backpack?"
Ron looked puzzled and answered rather hesitantly, "Why, no. It was listed on the paper which recorded his effects but when I picked them up it wasn't there."

Bob Corbin later said he believed the man was sincere.
Had Walter Gassler gone in alone, discovered Jacob's secret, extracted some ore, hurried away in fear and had a heart attack on the trail? The inquest confirmed he died of a heart attack. He was in his 80's and surely a shock of that magnitude might have killed a younger man. Or, was he followed by some unknown person who stalked him and then tried to force him to take them both back to the mine. Or is it a simple fact that someone found the pack and removed the ore? Was the gold taken from the pack on the trail? Or did someone in the sheriff's office take it in the excitement of the moment? Whatever happened remains a mystery.

Tom identified the gold. He has looked at a lot of specimens in his day - he has a degree in geology - he is not a novice. He stated the gold was almost identical to that which came from under Jacob's deathbed.

All of the above are facts which cannot be disputed.
Walter did go into the Superstitions on that last quest; Walter did say he knew where it was and Walter died in possession of valuable gold ore.

<affidavits follow here attesting to several points.>

from The Curse of the Dutchman's Gold, Helen Corbin, published 1990, pp 226-230
 

Really? I had not noticed! :laughing7:

Now that episode of Unsolved Mysteries ran years ago, not sure exactly what year (date?) but at any rate it is not the only source we can turn to that records these events, surrounding Walt Gassler, his notes, the gold ore and whether he found the LDM or not.

Helen Corbin expanded on this Unsolved Mysteries account of Walt Gassler, the gold ore and whether he found the mine.

from The Curse of the Dutchman's Gold, Helen Corbin, published 1990, pp 226-230

roy...i watched the unsolved mysteries show on gassler when it first aired...late 80's i believe.......maybe tom kollenborn will hop on board here and give us an updated report on the ore he saw....maybe he took pics of it?,,,maybe matthew has pics?...i know a few people that have some pretty high grade jewelry rock.....as rich or better than the ore that came from waltz's bed....that doesnt mean they found the ldm
 

roy...i watched the unsolved mysteries show on gassler when it first aired...late 80's i believe.......maybe tom kollenborn will hop on board here and give us an updated report on the ore he saw....maybe he took pics of it?,,,maybe matthew has pics?...i know a few people that have some pretty high grade jewelry rock.....as rich or better than the ore that came from waltz's bed....that doesnt mean they found the ldm

So are you taking the position that Tom K was WRONG, that gold ore he was shown was not similar to LDM ore, that Walt Gassler was mistaken or lying, and he had not 'solved' it nor found the LDM?

:coffee2: :coffee2:
 

So are you taking the position that Tom K was WRONG, that gold ore he was shown was not similar to LDM ore, that Walt Gassler was mistaken or lying, and he had not 'solved' it nor found the LDM?

:coffee2: :coffee2:
..i am just requesting an update ...after all its been over 30 years since gassler died..and as far as gassler finding the ldm...nobody knows what he found..unless you were there when he found it and witnessed it...tom or matthew never claimed gassler found the mine..just that his son has ore samples that were very rich
 

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Personal attacks will stop. Keep thread on topic please. Once again good information stands to be be lost because of a few. I think everyone wishes the conversation and research to continue.
Thanks and have a great weekend!
 

..i am just requesting an update ...after all its been over 30 years since gassler died..and as far as gassler finding the ldm...nobody knows what he found..unless you were there when he found it and witnessed it...tom or matthew never claimed gassler found the mine..just that his son has ore samples that were very rich

Dave,

I don't think Walt Gassler's "son" claimed that he had rich ore samples, but it was the fake son who showed Tom the samples. Did Roland make that claim here, and I just missed it? Sorry if I have that messed up, as my memory it pretty well shot.

Hope all is well with you and Roy, as well as both of your families.

Take care,

Joe
 

Dave,

I don't think Walt Gassler's "son" claimed that he had rich ore samples, but it was the fake son who showed Tom the samples. Did Roland make that claim here, and I just missed it? Sorry if I have that messed up, as my memory it pretty well shot.

Hope all is well with you and Roy, as well as both of your families.

Take care,

Joe
joe..thats what i was confused on.....which son had the ore?....if it was the fake son.....where would he have gotten it from?....i was hoping tom would step in and clear things up on what took place that day
 

So are you taking the position that Tom K was WRONG, that gold ore he was shown was not similar to LDM ore, that Walt Gassler was mistaken or lying, and he had not 'solved' it nor found the LDM?

:coffee2: :coffee2:

Howdy Amigo,

I don't believe Tom K. was wrong, however, almost is not a match.

Homar
 

Oro

It is not necessary the gold in quartz sample that showed the fake Roland to Tom Kollenborn to have been from the Walt's backpack . Ore that are similar with the Waltz ore exist in the LDM surrounding area . Look at the ore that posted NP at http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/l...where-do-you-think-lost-dutchman-mine-13.html ( #186 ) . Anyone , not only Tom Kollenborn would believed with a first look how " Roland's " ore could been from the LDM .
 

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joe..thats what i was confused on.....which son had the ore?....if it was the fake son.....where would he have gotten it from?....i was hoping tom would step in and clear things up on what took place that day

Dave,

Personally, I would take Tom's written statement, as it was written by Helen Corbin. Since Tom was a very close friend of the Corbin's, I believe he probably told Helen the story personally.

Now Helen did not put the story in quotes, so I imagine she wrote it from memory or possibly notes. Helen writes, "...later said it looked exactly like the Dutchman's ore that came from under his deathbed." Tom has seen jewelry ore, said to have come from Waltz. He is completely qualified to make such a judgement. (Emphasis in bold by myself.)

I have serious doubts that Tom will come on this, or any other site, to become involved in the vitriolic insults of those people who would call into question his honesty, or Bob Corbin's. When it comes to the history and lore of the Superstition Mountains, Tom Kollenborn is at the top of the food chain......so to speak.

Now I am not speaking for Tom or Bob, but feel qualified to give my personal opinion. By the way, the gold in Bob's ring came from Matthew Roberts, just to clarify some statements that were made at the Rendezvous.

Good luck,

Joe
 

azdave35,
In case there is still confusion about who had the ore samples that were showed to Tom it was the individual who Tom claims came to him first and identified himself as Roland Gassler. I did not show Tom any samples when I came to him during his slide show on the Superstitions, second Roland.
This next statement I am sure will not be accepted by a number of people who post on this forum but to me whats important getting the information accurate. Oroblanco posted an excerpt from Helen Corbin's book. Just let me say there are a number of statements in that excerpt that are not accurate. Not that those inaccuracies have any bearing on information that would be helpful in determining the location of the LDM. This has to do with whether history is correct or not. To be clear, this is not a shot at Oroblanco. He was posting information from a published source.
RWGassler
 

Personal attacks will stop. Keep thread on topic please. Once again good information stands to be be lost because of a few. I think everyone wishes the conversation and research to continue.
Thanks and have a great weekend!

Thank you for hitting the nail on the head on this one; this has been a serious pet peeve of mine.

As someone who has read every single thread and post in this forum concerning the LDM, it's exasperating to me how much information has been lost over the years not just because of personal attacks but passive-aggressive behaviors such as constantly pestering posters for "sources."
 

Good morning deducer: I totally agree with you regarding the behavior of some of the posters. There was going to be a lot more information posted on this thread, but those who were going to join in simply did not want to get involved with the behavior of individual on this thread. Sorry Tnmountains and deducer, a lot has been lost. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis
 

azdave35,
In case there is still confusion about who had the ore samples that were showed to Tom it was the individual who Tom claims came to him first and identified himself as Roland Gassler. I did not show Tom any samples when I came to him during his slide show on the Superstitions, second Roland.
This next statement I am sure will not be accepted by a number of people who post on this forum but to me whats important getting the information accurate. Oroblanco posted an excerpt from Helen Corbin's book. Just let me say there are a number of statements in that excerpt that are not accurate. Not that those inaccuracies have any bearing on information that would be helpful in determining the location of the LDM. This has to do with whether history is correct or not. To be clear, this is not a shot at Oroblanco. He was posting information from a published source.
RWGassler

roland..thanks for stepping in and setting things straight...thats what i wanted to know...one of the problems on this forum is everyone here seems to think just because it was written in a book or aired on tv that it is gospel truth...they are always quoting from books..as far as i'm concerned most of the bad info we have on the ldm has come from books starting with barry storm and possibly earlier publications....matter of fact helen's book was pulled from publication for that very reason...
 

Thank you for hitting the nail on the head on this one; this has been a serious pet peeve of mine.

As someone who has read every single thread and post in this forum concerning the LDM, it's exasperating to me how much information has been lost over the years not just because of personal attacks but passive-aggressive behaviors such as constantly pestering posters for "sources."

i have never attacked anyone on this forum that didnt attack me first and i dont pester people for their sources because most of their sources are books..and i dont put much stock in books..the only book i believe in is the bible...and i'm not talking about corbins book....i mean the holy bible
 

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