Walt Gasslers Notes on Dutchman Legend

[Old]

When something is verifiable I do tend to seize upon it. Thus is the case here.

We can quibble over this word or that word, this version or that version, but the elephant in the room is this.

The backpack is lost, the gold ore flashed to TK has not resurfaced. BUT, the Gassler notes have. We know where they are. They went from point A to point B.

Mr. Roberts tells us this.........." Few people have ever read Walter's hand written manuscript. It contains things not included in the typed copy but those things are incidental and no great secrets were withheld. The manuscript has been typed on at least two occasions that I know of."

Mr. Roberts is giving us a first hand glimpse into the hand written manuscript. He speaks in the present tense. "it contains" , not it contained or I remember it had........but.... it contains.

Did TK and BC have those same hand written notes? Were they the notes returned to the imposter Roland? If so, we have an elephant in the room. If all TK and BC had were Xerox copies its a dead end trail and of little importance. If they were, as has been implied, the original notes. Its huge.

 

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[gollum]

Joe, Roy, Old,

That wasn't the quote I was thinking of. I have it somewhere that Bob Corbin had either seen, or Walter Gassler told him about his ore samples. I will have to find the exact quote.

Mike

 

[RWGassler]

Oroblanco,
I know this will not be accepted by some since it was rebuffed the last time I tried to provide input on what the circumstances were after my fathers body was found. However, I will once again try to explain what took place. Once DPS recovered the body it was placed in a body bag and taken to the coroner to establish the cause of death. At that point the decision was made that he died of an apparent heart attack. in addition, they removed his personal items and made an inventory. Since he took a soft backpack and not a framed pack it was left in the body bag.
When I received the inventory I matched it to the items we were given. I also had concerns since the inventory listed the backpack but we did not receive it with his belongings. Since there was a descepanc I called both the doctor who made the determination as to cause of death and the two DPS officers involved in the recovery. Both the doctor and DPS gave me the same story that the backpack was left on him and was not removed once he was placed in the body bag. According to the doctor involved he saw no reason to remove the body from the body bag in order for him to determine the cause of death. One could say that the doctor was negligent for not making more of a effort in determining the cause of death but it was probably easier since this was an elderly man and there were no signs of foul play.

I see at least a couple of individuals have the same questions I had since this story was started 30 years ago. First of all my father was a private individual and he would not have given information to someone he did not trust. My father gave a copy of his manuscript to Bob Corbin in a meeting in Bob's office. He did not give a copy to Tom K. Tom would had to have gotten his copy from Bob which make it even harder to believe that a stranger would have known Tom had a copy. You can draw your own conclusions from this input.
RWGassler

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Gentlemen, and you know who you are, unless you want me to hand out multiple long timeouts end the insults....

Just because a post that violates rules isn't deleted doesn't mean its okay to reply to the post with insults, it means it wasn't reported.

 

[Honest Samuel]

There was a TV show where men were close in finding treasures on the mountain, but not the gold mine.

 

[Oroblanco]

Oroblanco,
I know this will not be accepted by some since it was rebuffed the last time I tried to provide input on what the circumstances were after my fathers body was found. However, I will once again try to explain what took place. Once DPS recovered the body it was placed in a body bag and taken to the coroner to establish the cause of death. At that point the decision was made that he died of an apparent heart attack. in addition, they removed his personal items and made an inventory. Since he took a soft backpack and not a framed pack it was left in the body bag.
When I received the inventory I matched it to the items we were given. I also had concerns since the inventory listed the backpack but we did not receive it with his belongings. Since there was a descepanc I called both the doctor who made the determination as to cause of death and the two DPS officers involved in the recovery. Both the doctor and DPS gave me the same story that the backpack was left on him and was not removed once he was placed in the body bag. According to the doctor involved he saw no reason to remove the body from the body bag in order for him to determine the cause of death. One could say that the doctor was negligent for not making more of a effort in determining the cause of death but it was probably easier since this was an elderly man and there were no signs of foul play.

I see at least a couple of individuals have the same questions I had since this story was started 30 years ago. First of all my father was a private individual and he would not have given information to someone he did not trust. My father gave a copy of his manuscript to Bob Corbin in a meeting in Bob's office. He did not give a copy to Tom K. Tom would had to have gotten his copy from Bob which make it even harder to believe that a stranger would have known Tom had a copy. You can draw your own conclusions from this input.
RWGassler

I will re-post that extract from Helen's book describing this part again as there seems to be some misunderstanding. Quote

That weekend a man appeared at Tom Kollenborn's home. He introduced himself as Walter Gassler's son. Tom invited the man in and after exchanging pleasantries the man brought out some rich gold ore. He said it was in his father's backpack when he was found on the trail. Tom was shocked. But, maintaining his usual dour façade, he examined the ore and later said it looked exactly like the gold which came from under the Dutchman's bed. The man listened patiently. After a bit he said, "I understand that my father gave his notes to Bob Corbin, is that true? Tom nodded, saying little, in true cowboy fashion. It was apparent the man wanted those notes back. Tom suggested he call the attorney general at his office in the state capitol, and the matter was left right there.

A week later Tom called Bob to see if he had heard from Gassler's son. Bob said no, but he would gladly give the notes up to the family; he felt that was only fair.

The imposter did not know that Tom K had any copy, in fact that question indicates he did not know WHOM had it. It is erroneous to assume that he KNEW Tom had a copy when his question indicates that he did not. This imposter was clearly "fishing" for information.

Roy,
Trust all is well with you, Beth and the pups.

The Gassler story has plenty of details to help make it confusing. I have serious doubts it will bring anyone closer to finding the LDM.

I believe we have gone over this before, my friend, but AZ(Dave) is a long time good friend and a good hand to have with you in the desert. He is very knowledgeable and someone who's friendship you would do well to cultivate. I see that the two of you butt heads now and again, but that holds true for you and I as well. I would not hesitate for a second to add him to any team searching for gold.

If I have overstepped a line here, you have my apology. I believe the two of you would become lifetime friends.

Take care,

Joe

Stranger things have happened! Real de Tayopa probably did not like me very well either when we first "met" online, sort of clashed more than anything, and now <decades later> I would trust him for anything. You have NOT overstepped any lines with me amigo. I hope all is well with you and that you are recovering quickly.

 

[RWGassler]

Oroblanco,
I agree that there is some misunderstanding regarding who gave what to whom. I believe the extract you posted from Helen's book is inaccurate or Tom changed his story at the time she started to write her book.
There are numerous articles, the Unsolved Mysteries show on LDM and what Tom told me all which occurred before Helen's book was published that indicate during Tom's conversation with the Fake Roland Gassler, he requested my dad's map and manuscript. Tom told him he did not have a map but gave him the copy of the manuscript. Again, I have a hard time believing someone would know to go to Tom K. and even more astonishing that he would think that he had any materials from my father. There were only two people in Arizona that knew of the manuscript that was Bob Corbin and Bob informed Tom K. and provided him with a copy. The only other person who had information about the manuscript was an individual in California but it was an early version.
RWGassler

 

[Oroblanco]

Oroblanco,
I agree that there is some misunderstanding regarding who gave what to whom. I believe the extract you posted from Helen's book is inaccurate or Tom changed his story at the time she started to write her book.
There are numerous articles, the Unsolved Mysteries show on LDM and what Tom told me all which occurred before Helen's book was published that indicate during Tom's conversation with the Fake Roland Gassler, he requested my dad's map and manuscript. Tom told him he did not have a map but gave him the copy of the manuscript. Again, I have a hard time believing someone would know to go to Tom K. and even more astonishing that he would think that he had any materials from my father. There were only two people in Arizona that knew of the manuscript that was Bob Corbin and Bob informed Tom K. and provided him with a copy. The only other person who had information about the manuscript was an individual in California but it was an early version.
RWGassler

I get a somewhat different interpretation of that story; I do not think the IMPOSTER had any knowledge of who or whom had the notes. I think he went to Tom because Tom is widely recognized as an authority on the LDM and makes public appearances; it is easy to find Tom K and 'bump into him' so to speak. If the IMPOSTER really knew who had Walt Gassler's notes, he should have gone right to Bob Corbin. Instead he went ASKING to Tom K about them. I think he was fishing for information especially any notes he could lay hands on. So yes it would be odd if someone KNEW to go to Tom K, but that is not the case.

Tom K and Bob C have been close friends for decades - it should not be surprising that they have shared information on occasion when they have been partners in the quest.

 

[cactusjumper]

Oroblanco,
I agree that there is some misunderstanding regarding who gave what to whom. I believe the extract you posted from Helen's book is inaccurate or Tom changed his story at the time she started to write her book.
There are numerous articles, the Unsolved Mysteries show on LDM and what Tom told me all which occurred before Helen's book was published that indicate during Tom's conversation with the Fake Roland Gassler, he requested my dad's map and manuscript. Tom told him he did not have a map but gave him the copy of the manuscript. Again, I have a hard time believing someone would know to go to Tom K. and even more astonishing that he would think that he had any materials from my father. There were only two people in Arizona that knew of the manuscript that was Bob Corbin and Bob informed Tom K. and provided him with a copy. The only other person who had information about the manuscript was an individual in California but it was an early version.
RWGassler

Mr. Gassler,

If there is only one other person who knew about the hand written manuscript, it would have to be Matthew Roberts and I believe he is living in California now. He has mentioned that manuscript here. What's going on?

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

Old,

I cannot speak for Greg Davis and I am not. What I am posting is personal knowledge of Walter's manuscript and his final days, the time period 1983 - May 1984. Something you need to understand about Walter Gassler's manuscript. Walter hand wrote the manuscript and gave it to Robert Lee at San Diego, CA. Lee was an author and film producer with his own production company in San Diego and Los Angeles. Walter wanted Lee to rewrite the manuscript into an acceptable Lost Dutchman book or production video. Walter and Robert Lee corresponded back and forth through letters and phone calls and were working on an arrangement when Walter went into the Superstitions in May of 1984 and tragically died.

Lee was left with Walter's manuscript and rewrote parts of it but never finished or finalized the work. With Walter gone the production video was out of the question. There was a final chapter Walter was working on, something he had started back in the mountains and his last trip into the Superstitions would have given the manuscript the ending it needed.

A few years after Walter died, Robert Lee himself died and his son Randy took over his fathers production company. Sometime about 1995 Randy Lee turned over all his father's things including Walters manuscript to Greg Davis at the Superstition Mountain Historical Society with permission to do with it whatever the museum wished. His only stipulation being all his father's material be preserved. Anyone can access the Robert Lee collection at any time, an appointment may be necessary.

Few people have ever read Walter's hand written manuscript. It contains things not included in the typed copy but those things are incidental and no great secrets were withheld. The manuscript has been typed on at least two occasions that I know of.

This is my understanding based on having been with Walter in those last months and knowing what he was trying to accomplish and who he was working with.

Matthew

Mr. Gassler,

Matthew's post is quoted above.

Once again, my paranoia is raising its ugly head. What's up?

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

Oroblanco,
I know this will not be accepted by some since it was rebuffed the last time I tried to provide input on what the circumstances were after my fathers body was found. However, I will once again try to explain what took place. Once DPS recovered the body it was placed in a body bag and taken to the coroner to establish the cause of death. At that point the decision was made that he died of an apparent heart attack. in addition, they removed his personal items and made an inventory. Since he took a soft backpack and not a framed pack it was left in the body bag.
When I received the inventory I matched it to the items we were given. I also had concerns since the inventory listed the backpack but we did not receive it with his belongings. Since there was a descepanc I called both the doctor who made the determination as to cause of death and the two DPS officers involved in the recovery. Both the doctor and DPS gave me the same story that the backpack was left on him and was not removed once he was placed in the body bag. According to the doctor involved he saw no reason to remove the body from the body bag in order for him to determine the cause of death. One could say that the doctor was negligent for not making more of a effort in determining the cause of death but it was probably easier since this was an elderly man and there were no signs of foul play.

I see at least a couple of individuals have the same questions I had since this story was started 30 years ago. First of all my father was a private individual and he would not have given information to someone he did not trust. My father gave a copy of his manuscript to Bob Corbin in a meeting in Bob's office. He did not give a copy to Tom K. Tom would had to have gotten his copy from Bob which make it even harder to believe that a stranger would have known Tom had a copy. You can draw your own conclusions from this input.
RWGassler

Mr. Gassler,

Surely you can see where this might raise some eyebrows. How could the coroner determine the cause of death, without examining the entire body......sans backpack. It's only natural that you would receive some questioning from the posters here on that.

Not saying it's not true, just that it would not be normal procedure. Lots of strange things happen when it comes to the LDM, and the Superstitions.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[RWGassler]

Joe,
I understand how this has become confusing especially since there have been very specific posts from Matthew. I do not know Matthew but did try to meet but somehow got our wires crossed on finalizing the meeting date. Here's my issue. Since we lived in Arizona it was not unusual to visit my folks on a regular basis, usually Sunday dinner. My father was no longer driving so going somewhere would require my mother to take him. I never recall any conversation with my dad in which he mentioned Matthew nor do I recall him spending time with anyone as Matthew pointed out in the last months. I am also sure my mother would have mentioned it. I think there is room for being skeptical about this relationship until I can meet with Matthew personally. Obviously if this did take place it would be important to me to understand the details. Maybe my paranoia is starting to rise to the surface!!!
RWGassler

 

[Garry]

Roland,

I was involved in a similar discussion about your father on another forum in 2006-2007 (a lot more in depth but again it contained a “lot” of speculation.) One question I always had, concerned what I will call the “missing years”, between about 1942 until about 1982.

It seemed to me that there were two diametrical opposing stories concerning this time period.

One in which Walter suspended his physical search in the Superstitions in this time period. He was still interested and followed the Lost Dutchman in books and stories but his main focus was working and raising his family.

The other in which he was very active in the mountains and traveled there frequently over the decades. There was also mention of you accompanying him into the Superstitions on more than one occasion.

One other item that I wasn’t clear on was a statement, in the manuscript (Page 13 of the SMHS reprint of the manuscript). “I was away from Phoenix for several years”.

In 2007, my wife and I visited the Arizona State Library (then at the old State Capital complex) and searched the Phoenix City Directories from about 1945 to 1983 for Walter. From about 1945 up until 1970, he was always employed as a chef in some very nice establishments. In the 1971 Directory he shows up as retired but later he also appears as an employee at the Palm Brook Country Club.

There were some directories that were unavailable at the Library but all in all they were relatively complete.

Thanks in advance for anything you can share regarding this time period.

Garry

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe,
I understand how this has become confusing especially since there have been very specific posts from Matthew. I do not know Matthew but did try to meet but somehow got our wires crossed on finalizing the meeting date. Here's my issue. Since we lived in Arizona it was not unusual to visit my folks on a regular basis, usually Sunday dinner. My father was no longer driving so going somewhere would require my mother to take him. I never recall any conversation with my dad in which he mentioned Matthew nor do I recall him spending time with anyone as Matthew pointed out in the last months. I am also sure my mother would have mentioned it. I think there is room for being skeptical about this relationship until I can meet with Matthew personally. Obviously if this did take place it would be important to me to understand the details. Maybe my paranoia is starting to rise to the surface!!!
RWGassler

Roland,

I understand paranoia. In this case it may be healthy, as well as warranted.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

I'll take one of those coffees with cream please ORO.

Incidentally, Mexico has it's own version of sock coffee. They use a cloth funnel for the same porpose. ya don't have to use your teeth to filter out the fine grounds, but it doesn't have that unique flavor added.

 

[cactusjumper]

All,

It never ceases to amaze me how serious discussions seem to get buried beneath Scrooge McDuck's massive gold coin treasures.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

Greg,

We have all been waiting for you to add some more information. You have archived, probably, more documentation on the LDM and, I would guess, Walter Gassler, than any man alive. You are probably the source for every "expert" who teases us with information, but won't tell.

Have a great Thanksgiving,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[RWGassler]

Gary,
I can't speak as to what happened prior to 1945 but from that period until 1982 I would say that he was not absent from the mountains nor did he frequent them as much as he did when he first arrived in Arizona. Some of that had to do with family and some had to do with him working out of state. However, Arizona was always his official residence. To the best of my recollection he did not fully retire until sometime after 1971 but I don't recall the actual date. I think you could surmise that the older he got the less time he would spend in the search and more on research. I think the time he spent on research was what may have triggered his last trip.
RWGassler

 

[cactusjumper]

Roland,

As a young man, I believed my Uncle, Chuck Ribaudo had located the LDM. After I met my mother's Uncle, Obie Stoker, I thought he may have found the LDM, back in the early 20s, Both of the men had working claims but had never met each other until very late in their lives.

Chuck at his claim:



Later on in life, I came to believe neither man was right.

Did you believe your dad had found the location of the LDM? Do you believe that today? Did he leave you the LDM fever?

Thanks,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[RWGassler]

Joe,
I guess we'll never know, although his enthusiasm, our discussion and his conversation with Bob Corbin indicated that he either found something or reinterpreted information he had in his research which led him to take that final trip at 82. I have not looked at any of his documents for some time so I have no comment on what it might have been or if he made notes. I am not a Dutchman hunter since I spent all my time in my career and family which left little time for anything else. I was always interested in the LDM, enjoyed the discussion we had and on occasion would go with him. Most of those events occurred prior to going to college but did make a couple of trips with him after that.
Stories like my fathers, LDM hunters that make it to TV, authors who write articles and books are what keeps the legend alive. So, isn't this what its all about? What if someone did find it, wouldn't that take the wind out of every ones sails that spent sometimes up to a lifetime looking. Maybe that's why no one has found it yet and maybe they never will.
RWGassler