Where to start? We've got caches on our property, a map, need a plan! SW Missouri

[ZeeMartin]

Not sure if I'm posting this in the right forum or not... help me out?
So here's the story. The guy who built our in-ground house had a small paranoia thing going and buried multiple caches on the property. The owners between him and us found 3 of them using his ... odd and vegetation specific ... map and a metal detector. There should be maybe 3 more they didn't find. The found caches had countable money in them so the upside is awesome.
We don't know if he may have dug up the missing caches himself, as he was pretty well losing it by the time he sold the property, so its also possible the upside is nothing.
The caches are in plastic peanut butter jars and may contain coins or paper money or both. Possibly paperclips on paper money. possibly no metal.
And the map includes mention of things like specific trees... under the hickory. ... and there's been a lot of vegetation change in the 20 or more years since the caches were buried.
So.
I have an original map.
I have a second map made by the folks who found the first 3 caches.
I have zero skills for figuring this out.
In the early winter the underbrush will die back to make moving about and searching easier. Plus fewer ticks.
I need help with a plan.
SW Missouri area.
Someone get me started?

 

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[ZeeMartin]

thought I'd add a teaser... some of what was in the caches that were found. so if there are any of the not-found left, it'd be pretty cool.

 

[C&SDiggers]

If I were you id rent a backhoe for the weekend and literally dig my whole freaking yard up!!!!!

 

[ZeeMartin]

If I were you id rent a backhoe for the weekend and literally dig my whole freaking yard up!!!!!

we're talking hundreds of yards on the map, and literally thousands of trees I'd have to get a strip logging crew in to cover it.
the map references things like "the big oak tree"... "the blackberry patch" ... "shagbark hickory 5' tall" ... and it was drawn in 1997.
I think I need a little more surgical approach than a backhoe.

 

[releventchair]

You've got a lot towards leads already. Good for you!

Consider the guy who buried stuffs perspective as to why he buried where you already know he did.
Look on his map and see if there is any rhyme or reason.
Was he looking at landmarks to choose a site? Multiple landmarks so he could reorient himself? Or site chosen for a single identifiable feature?
Or was he making a big circle?
In sight of the same window of his home?
Parallel to a road or fenceline or transition area (edge) of different types of cover/plants /mowed areas/woods meet field ect..
Lined up with distant posts?

Even if not deliberate he may have had a pattern.

You also have recoveries made already.
How deep? Consistent depths?
You can research and build a long probe. No need to be fancy. But you can "feel" below ground when conditions allow.

Did any of the recovery sites show a change in soil color? Or surface look different than surroundings? A rock or broken glass or flattened beer can or something else to mark them?
.
Does he have any surviving relatives? They'll want a cut if they get wind of it.
Word already got out there were/are caches there.
Some folks deserve a small boost in thier situation. Others don't.
Anyone can lay claim to a share.
Shhhh.

Study the map and entire site.
Briefly at first. Then longer the next day.
Relax about it when not studying it.
Sometimes your mind can solve puzzles when you are not focused on them.
Even while you sleep.
Just pay heed if something pops in your mind about....Something that fits.

You don't have to bother the site. You get to!
Have a care for the guy who buried stuff.
He's gone from the site , but his work lives on.
IF he's still alive and you recover a cache of his (or more) you can without explaining how or why to anyone or seeing him see that his day (s) is better for it.
Even if it's a favorite treat or snack if he doesn't have a greater need.
That's on you though...

Good luck.
Be safe.

 

[releventchair]

we're talking hundreds of yards on the map, and literally thousands of trees I'd have to get a strip logging crew in to cover it.
the map references things like "the big oak tree"... "the blackberry patch" ... "shagbark hickory 5' tall" ... and it was drawn in 1997.
I think I need a little more surgical approach than a backhoe.

Them look easy enough.
One at a time. Reverse succession and growth accordingly.

I have one noticeable hickory on my property.
The homestead home that was near it shows no sign of ever existing.
Depending on your area , around me that hickory could be 18-20 feet today.
But it is a hickory. And stood out back then as a sapling.
Due to scarcity? Or someone having planted it there? Or was it in relation to another landmark? Or habit of movement.

Blackberries either expanded as they are wont to do , or a patch with heavy canes exists like a colony.
Given a large expanse of them the oldest should be less productive , and heavy diameter and height. If not cut / pruned over time.
A hundred year old farm I was on had them just over head height (due to droop) for the original patch.

Being as you describe paranoid. He also wanted privacy in his digging.
IF that meant being out of sight ; out of sight of what or who?
Or if it means night time digs , (but a light in the dark could attract notice) how would that fit his pattern?
Or could he have dug multiple holes during the day , and made deposits at night?

You being on site and following his know movements can help.
He was right here. Why? Would you do the same if hiding something and aware a witness would ruin the plan?
Can you find the site of a recovery without the map? The next one know to have been recovered also?
Look behind and around on your way. And on site of a prior cache.
Why here? What lines up? Anything? Why did you walk where you did? Subtle steering by features? A tired path? Another "edge"?

 

[ZeeMartin]

You've got a lot towards leads already. Good for you!

Consider the guy who buried stuffs perspective as to why he buried where you already know he did.
Look on his map and see if there is any rhyme or reason.
Was he looking at landmarks to choose a site? Multiple landmarks so he could reorient himself? Or site chosen for a single identifiable feature?
Or was he making a big circle?
In sight of the same window of his home?
Parallel to a road or fenceline or transition area (edge) of different types of cover/plants /mowed areas/woods meet field ect..
Lined up with distant posts?

Even if not deliberate he may have had a pattern.

You also have recoveries made already.
How deep? Consistent depths?
You can research and build a long probe. No need to be fancy. But you can "feel" below ground when conditions allow.

Did any of the recovery sites show a change in soil color? Or surface look different than surroundings? A rock or broken glass or flattened beer can or something else to mark them?
.
Does he have any surviving relatives? They'll want a cut if they get wind of it.
Word already got out there were/are caches there.
Some folks deserve a small boost in thier situation. Others don't.
Anyone can lay claim to a share.
Shhhh.

Study the map and entire site.
Briefly at first. Then longer the next day.
Relax about it when not studying it.
Sometimes your mind can solve puzzles when you are not focused on them.
Even while you sleep.
Just pay heed if something pops in your mind about....Something that fits.

You don't have to bother the site. You get to!
Have a care for the guy who buried stuff.
He's gone from the site , but his work lives on.
IF he's still alive and you recover a cache of his (or more) you can without explaining how or why to anyone or seeing him see that his day (s) is better for it.
Even if it's a favorite treat or snack if he doesn't have a greater need.
That's on you though...

Good luck.
Be safe.

thank you this is good thinking material.

The guy who did the caches passed maybe close to 20 years ago, he was in his late 70s I think. he had a brother in another state, and when the previous owner found caches they looked for him without success. I'll look if find something but I'm guessing he'd be in his late 90's if we found him, so its unlikely. no other family we know of.

all the neighbors know the folklore of this property, as do many of the friends and family of the owners between us and the original cacher. word's already out its been out for a couple decades

the maps and notes are all about trees tree species and height... in somewhere around 1997. Pretty hard to say which shagbark hickory was 5' tall in 1997 ... "4' hickory in hay field" ... "pecan next to the blackberries"... fairly certain the blackberries we've got now aren't the same patches that were growing 20 years ago ... its gonna be a challenge.

we've got a couple of physical points of reference - there's a house, and we know where the old barn was.
the found caches were less than 2' deep to the top of the container. don't know if there were surface references as the two fellows who found them are also passed (we bought from their kids).

I'll see if I can get in his head a bit... the paranoia is easy to find, and the fondness for trees, but the lay of the forestry 20 years ago may be a challenge. I may just have to work on channeling my inner paranoid recluse

thank you for getting me started.

 

[ZeeMartin]

Them look easy enough.
One at a time. Reverse succession and growth accordingly.

I have one noticeable hickory on my property.
The homestead home that was near it shows no sign of ever existing.
Depending on your area , around me that hickory could be 18-20 feet today.
But it is a hickory. And stood out back then as a sapling.
Due to scarcity? Or someone having planted it there? Or was it in relation to another landmark? Or habit of movement.

Blackberries either expanded as they are wont to do , or a patch with heavy canes exists like a colony.
Given a large expanse of them the oldest should be less productive , and heavy diameter and height. If not cut / pruned over time.
A hundred year old farm I was on had them just over head height (due to droop) for the original patch.

Being as you describe paranoid. He also wanted privacy in his digging.
IF that meant being out of sight ; out of sight of what or who?
Or if it means night time digs , (but a light in the dark could attract notice) how would that fit his pattern?
Or could he have dug multiple holes during the day , and made deposits at night?

You being on site and following his know movements can help.
He was right here. Why? Would you do the same if hiding something and aware a witness would ruin the plan?
Can you find the site of a recovery without the map? The next one know to have been recovered also?
Look behind and around on your way. And on site of a prior cache.
Why here? What lines up? Anything? Why did you walk where you did? Subtle steering by features? A tired path? Another "edge"?

y'all are starting to get me excited about the detective and intuitive work here

I think I'll interview my neighbor who used to live a quarter mile down and see what he things on where stuff might have been buried. country folks do keep an eye out for.. or on... each other

we know generally where the 3 were found, but maybe I can narrow that down with the previous owner's kids (the finders have passed). Based on the layout of the in-ground house, the cacher had some unusual ideas (he designed and built the house himself). I'll see if I can get in his head based on what we know.

gonna have to brush up on my tree species ID.

thank you for helping me see an approach.

 

[ZeeMartin]

I'm thinking if I can start to build a pattern here, I might benefit from having a detector to cast about the area. Likely nothing more than 2' or so deep, and may or may not have metal. containers from small peanutbutter to gallon size, and may or may not contain any coins, so voids might be a thing. I have no idea what kind of equipment I should be thinking about for this, but I'm sure its not the $99 beachcomber model. what do you folks suggest?

 

[RTR]

I suggest, keeping what you find to a minimum( in posts & Pix.), if you know what I mean

 

[releventchair]

y'all are starting to get me excited about the detective and intuitive work here

I think I'll interview my neighbor who used to live a quarter mile down and see what he things on where stuff might have been buried. country folks do keep an eye out for.. or on... each other

we know generally where the 3 were found, but maybe I can narrow that down with the previous owner's kids (the finders have passed). Based on the layout of the in-ground house, the cacher had some unusual ideas (he designed and built the house himself). I'll see if I can get in his head based on what we know.

gonna have to brush up on my tree species ID.

You'll gain on the trees progression. Hardwoods grow slower.
A planting takes a year or two before starting to grow. And each specie has a growth rate after. Depending on how it likes the conditions.

While learning the property , ask yourself where the best cache sites are and why.
Under a tree's roots /stump? Only some are easy to get under.
At the edge/dripline of the canopy above/farthest reach of branches back then?

Corners. Corners.
Under the corner of a slab of concrete outside. Or a foot away. You can find that easy enough if you choose for your /a cache site.
How about the barn's corners? Under the doors threshold?
Or an inside corner of the barn back then for privacy.

Hollow pipes have been used. Hollows in a beam that is not structural.
Solid wood doors can be holed from thier tops downward.

Sorry , I'd consider that not all his caches were recorded. Meaning an "eye" in my mind would always be wondering. What about here for a cache. It fits his routine.

Wild example :
Guy hated birds but had a birdbath he left? I'll peek under it too!
Two bricks out in a fallow field? Why?
A scar on the ground that don't grow nothin? Why?
A goofy tree that was damaged by weather or something that sticks out like a sore thumb from an easy to travel route? Caught my eye. Did it his eye?
Sure it did, But did it fit his cache type site choices?

Stand at the barn corners and look well beyond.
Any features he also would have noted? Anything between the points? Midway?
Or a boulder anywhere along the line?
How many lines from a corner to landmarks you both could/can still see?
Can you get a triangle from two lines and imagine line three and an invisible third corner?

Same with a given marker on his map.
Example :That big oak could have multiple landmarks away from it used for different caches.
See the barn from the big oak? Facing nearest corner of it and your back against the oaks trunk while looking towards the barn , what is in between? Anything stand out in between he could see back then? What stands out the most?
Is that the same view as standing at the barn corner facing the tree?
Same as from the barn door spot?


L.O.L..
Keep it fun.

 

[releventchair]

Learn the property till it is as familier to you as it was to the previous owner.
you'll be able to wander it in the dark. (you don't have to though).
Your choice of cache sites will differ after becoming familier with it.
Make some no loss if you don't recover them caches of your own.
You might learn more from losing one than recovering it. (I did!)
You want privacy. Not too obvious sites. Recoverability without a hassle.
Sites you can blend the surface so it does not contrast with the area around where you dig. What will you do with the gallon or more of extra soil your container takes up the space of?
And sites you can see in your daily routine are some insurance of catching one being molested.
But that's you. How "he" saw things might differ. But he had his methods and reasons.

You'll need a digging tool from what your posts hint.
IF you get a detector learn it first and practice before trying to locate a cache.
2 foot is deep for cheap detectors. Enough metal will ring up though.
Not knowing if metal is involved in all caches , or how much ,time spent missing them is just hunting with luck as your guide.

I'll leave your thread be now.
Too fun to not over do the comments on.
A day there would be a hoot. No , I won't be there.

 

[ZeeMartin]

Learn the property till it is as familier to you as it was to the previous owner.
you'll be able to wander it in the dark. (you don't have to though).
Your choice of cache sites will differ after becoming familier with it.
Make some no loss if you don't recover them caches of your own.
You might learn more from losing one than recovering it. (I did!)
You want privacy. Not too obvious sites. Recoverability without a hassle.
Sites you can blend the surface so it does not contrast with the area around where you dig. What will you do with the gallon or more of extra soil your container takes up the space of?
And sites you can see in your daily routine are some insurance of catching one being molested.
But that's you. How "he" saw things might differ. But he had his methods and reasons.

You'll need a digging tool from what your posts hint.
IF you get a detector learn it first and practice before trying to locate a cache.
2 foot it deep for cheap detectors. Enough metal will ring up though.
Not knowing if metal is involved in all caches , or how much ,time spent missing them is just hunting with luck as your guide.

I'll leave your thread be now.
Too fun to not over do the comments on.
A day there would be a hoot. No , I won't be there.

well y'all are teaching me a whole different way to think about this than I anticipated
I think I might make a cache or two. that sounds useful. educational. possibly fun (except you have no idea how many rocks we have in our dirt!)
a long time ago I studied man-tracking with a legend in that field - opened up a whole new way of thinking.
this reminds me a bit of that. thank you

 

[Jeff H]

Very cool! One thing about paranoid types is that they often want to be able to easily keep an eye on the locations they buried their stuff. Find the windows he likely would have looked out of to help narrow the area down.

 

[ZeeMartin]

Very cool! One thing about paranoid types is that they often want to be able to easily keep an eye on the locations they buried their stuff. Find the windows he likely would have looked out of to help narrow the area down.

interesting thought - because of the lush current tree and brush growth there's a lot you can't see, but there are a few large trees that might have been visible from the house 20 years ago.
definitely going to have to look at these woods though my 20-years-ago glasses.

 

[ZeeMartin]

see now, I thought I was asking a tech and equipment question. turns out I was asking a forensic psychology and forestry-evolution question
I had no idea, but that's cool.
sometimes you learn the unexpected.

 

[releventchair]

Cache Hunting

Before there were banks people buried their money! There really are buried caches and hoards waiting to be found! Use this forum to discussed lost/buried land treasures.

www.treasurenet.com

 

[ZeeMartin]

Cache Hunting

Before there were banks people buried their money! There really are buried caches and hoards waiting to be found! Use this forum to discussed lost/buried land treasures.

www.treasurenet.com

cool, I'll go learn. should I have posted over there instead?

 

[boogeyman]

cool, I'll go learn. should I have posted over there instead?

Go sit on where the porch is/was relax and ask yourself where would I? Have you thought about dowsing? Forget the naysayers here. Give it a try! You might be surprised. At this point it can't hurt.

 

[1CompassGirl]

Not sure if I'm posting this in the right forum or not... help me out?
So here's the story. The guy who built our in-ground house had a small paranoia thing going and buried multiple caches on the property. The owners between him and us found 3 of them using his ... odd and vegetation specific ... map and a metal detector. There should be maybe 3 more they didn't find. The found caches had countable money in them so the upside is awesome.
We don't know if he may have dug up the missing caches himself, as he was pretty well losing it by the time he sold the property, so its also possible the upside is nothing.
The caches are in plastic peanut butter jars and may contain coins or paper money or both. Possibly paperclips on paper money. possibly no metal.
And the map includes mention of things like specific trees... under the hickory. ... and there's been a lot of vegetation change in the 20 or more years since the caches were buried.
So.
I have an original map.
I have a second map made by the folks who found the first 3 caches.
I have zero skills for figuring this out.
In the early winter the underbrush will die back to make moving about and searching easier. Plus fewer ticks.
I need help with a plan.
SW Missouri area.
Someone get me started?

Have you ever used a pendulum to find treasure