Idahodutch
Bronze Member
Thanks Dave,
Me too !
Me too !
YOUR FAVORITE CLUE/EVIDENCE
- Thread starter cactusjumper
- Start date
Well its a new day, and we have a journey to finish. The remaining parts of the directions, after, In the canyon under you is my hidden camp. go like this:
You can find the rock house with very little difficulty. You won't be able to see it until you are right upon it.
After you find the camp then come back out of the canyon. (Here Waltz gave a direction to the mine that Holmes and Roberts kept secret).
You will never be able to find the mine until you first find the rock house as the shaft is completely hidden. A prospector won't find it because there is no ledge in view.
In the mine you will find about $75,000 dollars in gold already dug out. There is enough gold left to dig to make twenty men millionaires.
" I dug the outcropping away and erased all signs of my digging."
After finding the hidden camp, along with what else that might have been left there by Waltz, we go back out of the canyon . . . . .
What were the things that were said to them? If we were Holmes or Roberts at this point, we would be hiking directly to the mine, I would think.
There are other clues that may give indications to perhaps some of what may have been delivered in the undisclosed part. Personally, I believe there is.
Like I said, I plan to see if I can finish this journey. It's going to take a few months to see if I can get myself in to a place physically, that I can go boots on the ground once again and finish this thing once and for all.
That is of course, unless one of you beat me to it.
Gentlemen, It has been a pleasure.
Sincerely, Idaho Dutch
Here's something to think about. Is he referring you rock house in regards to the hidden camp, or is the rock house something he used to mark the mine?
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
Mc4500,
From the way it is written, I would think the rock house is in the hidden camp.
Specific directions about going from the Hidden camp to the mine have not been revealed publically that I know of, but who knows.
I beg to differ, in my humble opinion.
Go through this saddle and on up a low ridge and when you get to the highest point of the ridge you can look north and the four peaks are lined up to look like one peak.
In the other direction you will see a high needle.
In the canyon under you is my hidden camp.
You can't get down there because it's too steep
After you find the camp then come back out of the canyon., go to the mouth of the canyon and then back. This part of the clue's clearly describe directions to his hidden camp in a canyon, from up on a ridge looking down into a bushy canyon.
The next part is referring to his "mine" " After you find my hidden camp in the bushy canyon, come back out of the canyon and follow up the long ridge. I believe he placed a small rock house in the area or entrance of the mine, as he is describing here: "You can find the rock house with very little difficulty. You won't be able to see it until you are right upon it. (meaning that it is small) Then his next statements are directly about the mine itself: You will never be able to find the mine until you first find the rock house as the shaft is completely hidden.( meaning the shaft is completely hidden, and you have to find my marker to know you have found the mine) A prospector won't find it because there is no ledge in view. (Again, describing the mine and how hidden it is.) In the mine you will find about $75,000 dollars in gold already dug out. There is enough gold left to dig to make twenty men millionaires." I dug the outcropping away and erased all signs of my digging." (And again describing how well he hid the mine.)
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where did you come up with those clues?
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
Mc4500,
What you posted, is not exactly the same as what I posted on page 12 post 171.
You got some added wording and directions not in the same order either.
You might be on to something, but I am unable to tell from the images you posted if they are for supporting your view, or if they are for something else.
They look like maybe images of what might be left of the hidden camp?
I guess I'll find out, whatever I find out. Maybe nothing.
I'll let you know, but it will be a few months. I gotta first, even get myself there.
Working on it.
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Mc4500,
What you posted, is not exactly the same as what I posted on page 12 post 171.
You got some added wording and directions not in the same order either.
You might be on to something, but I am unable to tell from the images you posted if they are for supporting your view, or if they are for something else.
They look like maybe images of what might be left of the hidden camp?
I guess I'll find out, whatever I find out. Maybe nothing.
I'll let you know, but it will be a few months. I gotta first, even get myself there.
Working on it.
I did rearrange the order- that was my point!
My images are showing a small rock house which is the green circle, compare both pictures and you can clearly see a small rock house.
- Jun 27, 2012
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Cowboy Robless said he saw Waltz going up Coffee Flat. Nobody would waste their efforts doing this if they knew a better place to get gold.
markmar
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What you have to take in consideration about the route that told Waltz to Holmes:
"Go to first water, then to second water, then take the old government trail to San Carlos. Where the trail turns south you will see over the point of a ridge a rock standing in the brush that looks like a man. This is where I always leave the trail. Go to the left of the trail and follow up the long ridge and you will come to a saddle. In this saddle is a round Indian ruin of rocks.
Go through this saddle and on up a low ridge and when you get to the highest point of the ridge you can look north and the four peaks are lined up to look like one peak.
In the other direction you will see a high needle. In the canyon under you is my hidden camp. You can't get down there because it's too steep, go to the mouth of the canyon and then back.
You can find the rock house with very little difficulty. You won't be able to see it until you are right upon it. After you find the camp then come back out of the canyon. (Here Waltz gave a direction to the mine that Holmes and Roberts kept secret). You will never be able to find the mine until you first find the rock house as the shaft is completely hidden. A prospector won't find it because there is no ledge in view. In the mine you will find about $75,000 dollars in gold already dug out. There is enough gold left to dig to make twenty men millionaires." I dug the outcropping away and erased all signs of my digging."
What I marked with red you have to ignore it, because if you would be at the top of the low ridge and you would know under you is the hidden camp, then you would not need instructions how to get there. You would find the way.
Also the secret clue which is missed in the route about the location of the mine, IMHO is the clue which says how the mine is about 200 feet away from the house ruin and across the ravine. So, when you will be at the camp with the house ruin and see where the mine is located , then you don't need instructions to go there too. You know the way because you have passed near by and above while you went to the low ridge.
"Go to first water, then to second water, then take the old government trail to San Carlos. Where the trail turns south you will see over the point of a ridge a rock standing in the brush that looks like a man. This is where I always leave the trail. Go to the left of the trail and follow up the long ridge and you will come to a saddle. In this saddle is a round Indian ruin of rocks.
Go through this saddle and on up a low ridge and when you get to the highest point of the ridge you can look north and the four peaks are lined up to look like one peak.
In the other direction you will see a high needle. In the canyon under you is my hidden camp. You can't get down there because it's too steep, go to the mouth of the canyon and then back.
You can find the rock house with very little difficulty. You won't be able to see it until you are right upon it. After you find the camp then come back out of the canyon. (Here Waltz gave a direction to the mine that Holmes and Roberts kept secret). You will never be able to find the mine until you first find the rock house as the shaft is completely hidden. A prospector won't find it because there is no ledge in view. In the mine you will find about $75,000 dollars in gold already dug out. There is enough gold left to dig to make twenty men millionaires." I dug the outcropping away and erased all signs of my digging."
What I marked with red you have to ignore it, because if you would be at the top of the low ridge and you would know under you is the hidden camp, then you would not need instructions how to get there. You would find the way.
Also the secret clue which is missed in the route about the location of the mine, IMHO is the clue which says how the mine is about 200 feet away from the house ruin and across the ravine. So, when you will be at the camp with the house ruin and see where the mine is located , then you don't need instructions to go there too. You know the way because you have passed near by and above while you went to the low ridge.
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Idahodutch
Bronze Member
Markmar,
I have pondered about this as well, but it is part of the information we received.
Really, it is not necessarily unneeded information, as it actually gives more insight as to whether or not you are in the right place, before trying to dig up the cache from on top of the mine.
Holmes never been there. Doesn't know about how steep it is to go from the viewing spot on low ridge, to straight down to his hidden camp. That is another clue that needs to fit imho. I hadn't brought up additional clues , because the initial exercise was to follow these instructions if possible and see where we end up. But you are very correct, we need to apply all the clues we can, if we want to find it. Waltz even said that sometimes he had a hard time finding it right off.
I may need all the help I can get for this. There are two areas in there that look really interesting to me, but I need to be up close to really see what is what.
The maker of the Waltz Map left something for us. And you know the coordinates I think.
Maybe it could work out for you to go up close too. Think about it for a while.
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
Mc4500,
This evening, I'll see what I can see on my computer monitor. Too hard on my phone.
Thanks for posting them and explaining.
- Jun 27, 2012
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Maybe it wasn't for gold?
Just saying, could have been for some other reason.
The only reason Waltz went into the mountains was for gold. It makes sense to me that Coffee Flat Mountain would be a good candidate for the LDM. Many of the known clues fit, and it’s closer to Florence where he supposedly went for supplies.
Except for the fact that he said that it is completely hidden. I've read that you can be within the entrance (or within 10 ft of it) and not even see it. Therefore you could have followed his directions, and still not know where it is. I think the key sentence there is "You will never be able to find the mine until you first find the rock house as the shaft is completely hidden." I don't believe he's talking about the rock house as his hidden camp. I think he is giving directions on how to get to the mine specifically. And he says" find my marker which is the "rock house"
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
393stroker,
You make good points. We got to go where our search leads us. Hopefully somebody finds it. There are still a few Dutch Hunters that would do what ever they could to work out a special trip to go look at it. Myself included.
Idaho Dutch
markmar
Silver Member
- Oct 17, 2012
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If Waltz could see the mine from the roofless two-room house ruin, then he could see also the roofless two-room house ruin from the mine. So, if Waltz instead the route to go first at the house ruin would said:
Go to first water, then to second water, then take the old government trail to San Carlos. Where the trail turns south you will see over the point of a ridge a rock standing in the brush that looks like a man. This is where I always leave the trail. Go to the left of the trail and follow up the long ridge and you will come to a saddle. In this saddle is a round Indian ruin of rocks.
Go through this saddle and on up a low ridge and when you get to the highest point of the ridge you can look north and the four peaks are lined up to look like one peak.
In the other direction you will see a high needle. In the canyon under you is my hidden camp. You can't get down there because it's too steep, but to see my camp, go back to the saddle and climb down at the left side of the ravine until you will find yourself at the lip of a cliff on a narrow ledge. On this ledge is my mine.
To your left hand while looking at the canyon below, above a boulder like a spur across the gulch, you will see the rock house ruin in a cave's mouth, which that shallow cave was my camp. "
This description would be closer of what Dr Thorne have seen while being at the gold outcrop according to Jim Bark manuscript.
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Idahodutch
Bronze Member
Hello Markmar,
One of the things I would definitely be looking for is the ruins of the rock house/hidden camp. In thinking about various clues, I am thinking that the hidden camp that waltz is directing Holmes to, is not up higher like the mine, but is located by way of the canyon below, hence the directions to go back down into the canyon below to get to it/find it.
I am remembering something about he and Wiser also have a shelter of some sort near the mine (since the rock house was down below and not easy to get to from mine).
I don't know if the rock house ruins are even still there, but the shallow cave should be and there should be accessible by way of the canyon floor (I would think it is maybe 15-30' above Needle creek in elevation because of rainy times and the creek raising up).
I do believe that the mine access is to "First you have to go down and then back up" and starting from the saddle.
Starting from the saddle and going down and to the west. Problem is there are at least three areas that could be considered the ravine.
I think the mine is in the 2nd or 3rd one you would come to, because wouldn't need to go down first from the saddle, to get into the first one.
You are saying to go down the left side of the ravine from the saddle. What about the part where you have to go back up?
By the way, I am enjoying this dialog if you can't tell
Here is a GE shot looking South into the ravine. The saddle I am referring to is the rounded ridge of the left (or East) side of the ravine.
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Oroblanco
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I am late to class (again) just wanted to say ditto to what mi amigo Dave said, glad to hear your surgery went well IdahoDutch!
Please do continue, and side thing but Cactusjumper has said many times, how history gets changed one word at a time - and sometimes just a single letter can change the meaning drastically!
Please do continue, and side thing but Cactusjumper has said many times, how history gets changed one word at a time - and sometimes just a single letter can change the meaning drastically!
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