1776 Birth of a nation coin Or is it 1775?

tymcmurray · Jun 28, 2008

Civilman and I hit the house that produced the 1784 counterfit
coin last weekend. We had high hope for a good hunt and were
not disappointed!
Joe and I quickly found a large cent each. We waited for a break
to clean them to see what exactly we found. Boy, was I surprised!!!!!!!!!!!!
I had to have Joe verify what I thought I was seeing. He did.
I was lucky enough to find a King Georgius III Rex 1776!!!
What are the odds of finding two rare coins in two hunts?
NOTHING could bring me down after that.
I went on to find a dateless Indian, a flat button with some gold guilt,
A small buckle, and a Lions' leg furniture foot. I'll let Joe share his finds
with you.

I am going to have to run my coin finds by you guys
before I name them. LOL :BangHead:

tymcmurray · Jun 29, 2008

Mona Lisa said:
You found the leg off of Cilvil's lion!! Now get back there and find the rest of his parts!!

Congrats on a great coin!!

It was an odd thing, Mona.
I found a large, Joe found a large.
Joe found a button, I found a button.
I found the lions' leg, Joe found the head.
I found the fatty, Joe found the eagle.
At one point we were both digging about 15 feet apart and
we both pulled a buckle out at the same time.
Like I said, odd, but fun!

Derek752 · Jun 29, 2008

AWESOME !! :wav:

AWESOME !!

Derek :icon_king:

Iron Patch · Jun 29, 2008

tymcmurray said:
Iron Patch said:

Can't say. How about a real close shot of the date? As I said some 5s are close to a 6 but just not quite closed.

Click to expand...

Iron Patch, I am still trying different things in order to get a better photo.
I haven't forgotten.

No worries. From seeing so many previous coins (even just the back) I'm quite convinced your's will be a 75. Even the MM or British forgeries tend to be at least a little different, that looks like a Regal issue or very close. I've personally owned two British 1776 counterfeits and they were different on the back, and very different on the front. However, all that being said, there ain't no rules in this game when it comes to counterfeiting so good luck, I hope it's 1776! Again I'm just being part of the thread and it's Don's buddies that should have any final say on dug Colonials ...they are the big guns! :thumbsup:

I'm more like a squirt gun.

weasel606 · Jun 29, 2008

great finds once again

congrats

allen · Jun 29, 2008

wow !!!! awesome finds...

Don in SJ · Jun 29, 2008

One of the researchers of Machin's Mills Halfpennies, and very qualified in determining one or even distinguishing a counterfeit by appearance from a Regal, has agreed with both you (Iron Patch) and I that it appears to be more in line with a 1775 coin, however he is positive it is a British made counterfeit. The date is the only thing not known 100% for sure. ( NOTE: if weight in grams or grains would be given on most of the colonial era finds, we could tell by that in most cases whether counterfeit or regal.)

I did not know I have one until this morning, but in one of our C4 quarterly newsletters are beautiful in color, plates, showing the varieties of Machin's Mills Halfpennies, they are clear enough in most cases to where if a good photograph is posted of a ground found, I have a much better chance now of IDing if it is one or not, depending of course on how good of condition the ground found coin is.

My friend and I were just discussing this morning, how Red Book should emphasize more the last sentence in the last paragraph about "These pieces are not to be confused with the similar, English-made counterfeits(some of which have identical dates) or with genuine British halfpence (dated 1770-1775).

Perhaps one day they will list British made counterfeits, as they should, since the vast majority of small change circulating was the British made counterfeit, which probably outnumbered the combined total of Machin's Mills and State coinages 10 to 1, and probably more.

So many sellers on e-bay try to sell British made counterfeits as Machin's Mills, whether intentional or not, to get a higher bid, and I have seen it on all the metal detecting forums where so many think they found a Machin's Mills halfpenny, thanks to basically Red Book only showing photos of them and not even the Regal British Halpennies, or the counterfeits, like our desire in the colonial collector world would be.

Don

tymcmurray · Jun 29, 2008

Don in SJ said:
One of the researchers of Machin's Mills Halfpennies, and very qualified in determining one or even distinguishing a counterfeit by appearance from a Regal, has agreed with both you (Iron Patch) and I that it appears to be more in line with a 1775 coin, however he is positive it is a British made counterfeit. The date is the only thing not known 100% for sure. ( NOTE: if weight in grams or grains would be given on most of the colonial era finds, we could tell by that in most cases whether counterfeit or regal.)

I did not know I have one until this morning, but in one of our C4 quarterly newsletters are beautiful in color, plates, showing the varieties of Machin's Mills Halfpennies, they are clear enough in most cases to where if a good photograph is posted of a ground found, I have a much better chance now of IDing if it is one or not, depending of course on how good of condition the ground found coin is.

My friend and I were just discussing this morning, how Red Book should emphasize more the last sentence in the last paragraph about "These pieces are not to be confused with the similar, English-made counterfeits(some of which have identical dates) or with genuine British halfpence (dated 1770-1775).

Perhaps one day they will list British made counterfeits, as they should, since the vast majority of small change circulating was the British made counterfeit, which probably outnumbered the combined total of Machin's Mills and State coinages 10 to 1, and probably more.

So many sellers on e-bay try to sell British made counterfeits as Machin's Mills, whether intentional or not, to get a higher bid, and I have seen it on all the metal detecting forums where so many think they found a Machin's Mills halfpenny, thanks to basically Red Book only showing photos of them and not even the Regal British Halpennies, or the counterfeits, like our desire in the colonial collector world would be.

Don

Wow!!! I had no idea it was so involved.
I may never find another one, but if I do I will
most certainly be asking for all of your help for
IDing the coins.
I have found 4 Rex's and I haven't got the
initial ID right yet.
Live and learn, eh?!

Iron Patch · Jun 29, 2008

tymcmurray said:
Don in SJ said:

One of the researchers of Machin's Mills Halfpennies, and very qualified in determining one or even distinguishing a counterfeit by appearance from a Regal, has agreed with both you (Iron Patch) and I that it appears to be more in line with a 1775 coin, however he is positive it is a British made counterfeit. The date is the only thing not known 100% for sure. ( NOTE: if weight in grams or grains would be given on most of the colonial era finds, we could tell by that in most cases whether counterfeit or regal.)

I did not know I have one until this morning, but in one of our C4 quarterly newsletters are beautiful in color, plates, showing the varieties of Machin's Mills Halfpennies, they are clear enough in most cases to where if a good photograph is posted of a ground found, I have a much better chance now of IDing if it is one or not, depending of course on how good of condition the ground found coin is.

My friend and I were just discussing this morning, how Red Book should emphasize more the last sentence in the last paragraph about "These pieces are not to be confused with the similar, English-made counterfeits(some of which have identical dates) or with genuine British halfpence (dated 1770-1775).

Perhaps one day they will list British made counterfeits, as they should, since the vast majority of small change circulating was the British made counterfeit, which probably outnumbered the combined total of Machin's Mills and State coinages 10 to 1, and probably more.

So many sellers on e-bay try to sell British made counterfeits as Machin's Mills, whether intentional or not, to get a higher bid, and I have seen it on all the metal detecting forums where so many think they found a Machin's Mills halfpenny, thanks to basically Red Book only showing photos of them and not even the Regal British Halpennies, or the counterfeits, like our desire in the colonial collector world would be.

Don

Click to expand...

Wow!!! I had no idea it was so involved.
I may never find another one, but if I do I will
most certainly be asking for all of your help for
IDing the coins.
I have found 4 Rex's and I haven't got the
initial ID right yet.
Live and learn, eh?!

Now you know why several of us laugh to ourself when people suggest taking it to the local dealer. The more I became interested in these types of coins, the more I realized you damn near need a PHD in Colonials to sort them all out. Lucky for us the people who really know like to hear about what's found, and are usually happy to help.