Ancient coin ? (Updated! more pics)

[history hunter]

I found this coin while metal detecting when I was a kid. I thought it was fake until I brought it to a coin show and a dealer said it was not necessarily fake. I was wondering if anyone knew anything about it?

 

[Dano Sverige]

Morning!
Still no further on i see,lol. Odd that the experts haven't replied to BCH yet.Maybe they're out on discovery expeditions or something?

@SWR - I seem to recall reading in one of the links on page one that the "earring and rootless palm tree" coins were a much later "cast".As you obviously couldn't be bothered reading it all,i can't be bothered going back to copy and paste it, but it's there.

I too am finding this really interesting BCH.Just am keeping out of it a lot as i seem to cause fights. Anxiously awaiting the outcome from a respected and recognized authority.(IF they can ever pick up calls or messeges!!)

 

[IronSpike]

Patina or corrosion? The patina cleaned/removed and most likely when fashioned as a pendant.

Any links on how ancient metal is dated Without original patina how much can be established on methods used?

HH's coin could be the lost Arkansas coin but not the Alabama coin. Wish we could get quality pics like the ones HH provided

 

[Dano Sverige]

@SWR - I seem to recall reading in one of the links on page one that the "earring and rootless palm tree" coins were a much later "cast".As you obviously couldn't be bothered reading it all,i can't be bothered going back to copy and paste it, but it's there.

No need to be pompous. Lets try to keep a friendly attitude about ourselves.

Regardless of what you believe I read, or did not read...the fact remains on legitimate coins of that era the bust has an earring and the Palm Tree has no roots.

Furthermore, the word SYRAKOSIAN or SYRACUSE, spelled in Greek of course, is not embossed on that type of coinage due to the complexity of the hair/crown being so close to the rim. This also adds to the fantasy coin theory. Plus, the word itself (syrakosian) appears to be fabricated

"...I too am finding this really interesting BCH.Just am keeping out of it a lot as i seem to cause fights."

I rest my case.

 

[IronSpike]

@SWR - I seem to recall reading in one of the links on page one that the "earring and rootless palm tree" coins were a much later "cast".As you obviously couldn't be bothered reading it all,i can't be bothered going back to copy and paste it, but it's there.

No need to be pompous. Lets try to keep a friendly attitude about ourselves.

Regardless of what you believe I read, or did not read...the fact remains on legitimate coins of that era the bust has an earring and the Palm Tree has no roots.

Furthermore, the word SYRAKOSIAN or SYRACUSE, spelled in Greek of course, is not embossed on that type of coinage due to the complexity of the hair/crown being so close to the rim. This also adds to the fantasy coin theory. Plus, the word itself (syrakosian) appears to be fabricated

"...I too am finding this really interesting BCH.Just am keeping out of it a lot as i seem to cause fights."

I rest my case.

Rest your case What exactly makes you think this find is ancient?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Patina or corrosion? The patina cleaned/removed and most likely when fashioned as a pendant.

Any links on how ancient metal is dated Without original patina how much can be established on methods used?

This coin is most likely 100 years old and the others may have shown substantial patina, corrosion and discoloration. Maybe that explains why they think its ancient..

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Regardless of what you believe I read, or did not read...the fact remains on legitimate coins of that era the bust has an earring and the Palm Tree has no roots.

Furthermore, the word SYRAKOSIAN or SYRACUSE, spelled in Greek of course, is not embossed on that type of coinage due to the complexity of the hair/crown being so close to the rim. This also adds to the fantasy coin theory. Plus, the word itself (syrakosian) appears to be fabricated

Good eye on the earing and SYRAKOSIAN wording. Someone sent me an email and told me that the lettering on ancients just does not look like that. Compare the lettering under the horse with the original you posted.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

After examining 3 coins, Mark McMenamin leaves open the possibility that they are forgeries.
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/offices/comm/csj/990108/mcman.html

He has borrowed three of the coins and has conducted various tests on them. One incorporated a new technique he developed to assay the elemental makeup of corroded ancient coins using Mount Holyoke's scanning electron microscope and energy dispersive spectrometer. While discussing the possibility that the coins are forgeries, McMenamin provides scientific evidence suggesting they are more likely the genuine article, confirmation that the Phoenicians were here first.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

 

[IronSpike]

HH's coin was only cleaned with soup and water so unless it's the lost Arkansas coin it must have been a relative rescent drop in order to qualify for ancient.

Good karma

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

?? Why does it have to be a recent drop?


B

 

[IronSpike]

?? Why does it have to be a recent drop?


B

I don't see any patina on HH's coin (rust layer which protect against corrosion).

 

[Dano Sverige]

You don't see any pj's with a big "S" on Clark Kent either...but he's still Superman! right?

 

[IronSpike]

You don't see any pj's with a big "S" on Clark Kent either...but he's still Superman! right?

Point was that in order for an ancient non silver coin to survive in this great condition it would have been protected against corrosion with a layer of patina. Patina not easily removed with soupy water alone.

 

[Silver Searcher]

You don't see any pj's with a big "S" on Clark Kent either...but he's still Superman! right?

Point was that in order for an ancient non silver coin to survive in this great condition it would have been protected against corrosion with a layer of patina. Patina not easily removed with soupy water alone.

Or perhaps buried with outhers in a sealed pot

SS

 

[IronSpike]

You don't see any pj's with a big "S" on Clark Kent either...but he's still Superman! right?

Point was that in order for an ancient non silver coin to survive in this great condition it would have been protected against corrosion with a layer of patina. Patina not easily removed with soupy water alone.

Or perhaps buried with outhers in a sealed pot

SS

True, but HH only found the coin.

 

[Silver Searcher]

You don't see any pj's with a big "S" on Clark Kent either...but he's still Superman! right?

Point was that in order for an ancient non silver coin to survive in this great condition it would have been protected against corrosion with a layer of patina. Patina not easily removed with soupy water alone.

Or perhaps buried with outhers in a sealed pot

SS

True, but HH only found the coin.

Perhaps there are more out there IS HH coin might have been found and lost before

SS.

 

[IronSpike]

You don't see any pj's with a big "S" on Clark Kent either...but he's still Superman! right?

Point was that in order for an ancient non silver coin to survive in this great condition it would have been protected against corrosion with a layer of patina. Patina not easily removed with soupy water alone.

Or perhaps buried with outhers in a sealed pot


SS

True, but HH only found the coin.

Perhaps there are more out there IS HH coin might have been found and lost before

SS.

True too. But why only found in the US? If explorers actually minting coinage in the US it would indicate a more permanent settlement. Are the coins found all that's left

 

[Silver Searcher]

You don't see any pj's with a big "S" on Clark Kent either...but he's still Superman! right?

Point was that in order for an ancient non silver coin to survive in this great condition it would have been protected against corrosion with a layer of patina. Patina not easily removed with soupy water alone.

Or perhaps buried with outhers in a sealed pot


SS

True, but HH only found the coin.

Perhaps there are more out there IS HH coin might have been found and lost before

SS.

True too. But why only found in the US? If explorers actually minting coinage in the US it would indicate a more permanent settlement. Are the coins found all that's left

Perhaps they wern't minted in US but took there by explorers to trade it's all fasanating, we will proberbly never no

The main thing is to find out what exactaly HH find is, like I have said before, I have a Mark Anthoney coin which should be Silver, but it's Bronze.

I emailed a collecter who said it was proberbly a Plated Silver(there are no traces of Silver) I have never found another on line that was a Plated Copy

SS

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Perhaps they wern't minted in US but took there by explorers to trade it's all fasanating, we will proberbly never no

The main thing is to find out what exactaly HH find is, like I have said before, I have a Mark Anthoney coin which should be Silver, but it's Bronze.

I emailed a collecter who said it was proberbly a Plated Silver(there are no traces of Silver) I have never found another on line that was a Plated Copy

SS

This is getting out of hand. Yes we can know.. Maybe a little reading up on ancient buried coins is necessary to recognize patina and discoloration. http://www.forumancientcoins.com/moonmoth/patina_coins.html

http://coins.about.com/od/coinsglossary/g/coin_patina.htm

Put your Mark Antony in a new post and maybe someone can help ID it for you. Would love to see it.

HHs coin/medallion is not silver nor silver plated. From the picture, it appears to have some form of brass guilting or plating that is clearly wearing off. It may not even be solid bronze. The few corroded spots seem to reveal a different, possibly zinc, base metal.

Ill repost HH's coin here (with the shiny brass loop) because maybe some of us are forgetting what it looks like. Notice the shiny brass-like plating wearing off, similar to a zincoln.

 

[IronSpike]

Maybe gypsies from Sicily brought all known minted coinage of this type to America many centuries later

Quote from above posted link:

Carthago. It is noteworthy that this wealthy commercial State, with its population of some 700,000 inhabitants, made no use whatever of coined money until the great invasion of Sicily, B.C. 410, brought her armies for the second time into contact with the Greeks. Then and not till then does it appear that the necessity arose for striking coins, and it may be assumed that the payment of troops employed in the devastation of the flourishing Hellenic settlements in that island was the immediate occasion of the coinage. That the use of coined money and the art of coining were borrowed by the Carthaginians from their Greek enemies is obvious from the adoption of the Sicilian type of the head of Persephone, and from the unmistakably Greek style of the earlist Carthaginian pieces.