Attention Archeologists, Museum curators. Could be the holy grail. You tell me.

[sonofmitch]

I found this several years ago near Victoria Texas on the San Antonio river. It's made of brass or bronze and is about 11 inches across and is approximately 1/8 thick. It stands 5 inches high and has a center hole that is 3 inches in diameter. There are six other 5/8 inch holes with one in each corner of its hexagonal shape. These holes are made such that if something were inserted into them that object would stand vertically and not at any other angle than 90 degrees. It appears to be Spanish or French just 'cause I want it to be.
The way it was made was by making 6 identical pieces that were bent to the same shape to make each of the six sides and joined with rivets through the decorative strips that cover each seam. I would say that it's off of a ship, from a mission, or off of a carriage. Surely not a hubcap. Maybe a decorative base for a flagpole Then why the little holes. Six flags over Texas?? Looks hammered into shape. Each of the six pieces at one time had other pieces riveted to them which would have stuck our from the edges that you see now.

Any ideas?? Anyone

 

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[kyphote]

Victorian ceiling fan.

 

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[Tnmountains]

Re: Attention Archeologists, Museum curators. Could be the holy grail. You tell

The relic has detailed decorative features and most likely not roofing related.

Most likely a ceiling mount or street gas lamp. I don't think it's a Spanish helmet.

I hope you guys don't intend to doubt the brush strokes of Leonardo Da Vinci.
I will admit I was mistaken. It's not Spanish.
Mitch

Now that was funny.
I do not think roof cap or cupola (sp). It would be very small way up on a steeple.
I am afraid you may never have a conclusive answer as it was manufactured by hand and probably not mass produced.

I zoomed the pic a bit and found this:

 

[kyphote]

A Victorian ceiling fan?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Mitch ~

I thought I would stop by with an update.

Of the 48 e-mail inquiries I sent out, I have heard back from 26 of them.

None have positively identified it yet, but there have been a lot of "guesses."

The number one majority guess to date from the responses I received is as follows ...

"Pole" related. (Both base and/or top).

1. Street lamp pole, (base and/or top).
2. Flag pole base.
3. Support pole, (base and/or top).
4. "Yard?" pole base.
5. Tent pole, (base and/or top).

Of course, there have been other guesses, but nothing that hasn't already been suggested/posted. So take your pick!

SODABOB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I asked my roofer friend and he says that it has the old Spanish tile look to it. He says it does not have to be waterproof for a vent. The waterproofing could be done underneath. It would be cemented down.




However there are several problems.

1- The holes. They are too big for nail holes. It would be cemented down and would not be anchored by these holes that would cause leakage.

2- The flat bottom. The bottom is not sloped to fit properly. It could only be mounted on a flat roof and you definitely do not want to anchor with nails or bolts on a flat roof. The flat bottom is not right for a pitched roof.

He mentioned weather vane but same problems. He said it looks more like a lamp part or chandelier. He says he'll look in his old books.


Another thing I thought of. Roof vents are 2 or 4 inch, not 3. But its the flat bottom that sold me. It would not mount properly on a pitched roof.

 

[SkyPirate]

The holy grail would be a thousand times more beautiful than that hunk of metal

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Mitch ~

I just stopped by with this update and to let you know I haven't entirely given up the search. I'm still sending out e-mail inquiries, and just heard back from one that may prove to be promising. It was from an archeologist in Texas who said he "may" be able to identify your find, but needs to do some more research. He had a few questions that I provided him the answers to as best I could. He said he would get back to me soon irregardless of whether he was able to come up with anything positive or not. I'm sorry to add that he didn't even hint at what he thought it might be, other than to say he was very interested in it. I'll let you know as soon as I hear something.

SODABOB

P.S. The image below is me searching for ...

 

[mojjax]

Maybe it's part of a variation of a Parlor Lamp Stove .

 

[Ramitt]

The holy grail would be a thousand times more beautiful than that hunk of metal

Not according to indiana Jones

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Mitch ~

I just heard back from a Texas archeologist who had the following to say about your find. As you know, I sent out about fifty e-mails, and in my opinion this is the most interesting response to date.

Quote;

"Although I cannot say with absolute certainty at this time, it is my professional opinion that "the item," as you referred to it, is a decorative center-post final (such as those used in the construction of) ... a medieval pavilion. The hexagon base would have held the elements of the ceiling fabric firmly in place, and the support post itself would have fit through the center hole."

This is about all she had to say about it, other than some small talk, and did not expound on an exact date, nor did she even once use the word "Spanish." Nor was there any explaination for the six 5/8" holes. But now I'm left wondering what the heck a "Medieval Pavilion" is? And although I have already done a little research in this area, I will let it hang there for the moment in case youself or others wish to do your own research. But here's a link to help you out.

http://www.currentmiddleages.org/tents/

I hope this helps, but ask in closing that you don't hold it against me if it should eventually turn out to be something else. I'm just doing my job and reporting the responses as they come in to me.

Your History Detective Friend,

Bob

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Is a Medievil Pavillion a tent?

She must be referring to reenactors. Sounds pausible from where it was found all alone.
http://www.wassonartistry.com/other.php?w=tents

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Well if this is correct its not exactly the Holy Grail lol.
I remember a while back someone found those medieval silver coins in America. It turns out those reenactors are everywhere and they even mint their own coinage.

Have you found any made of brass Bob?

May I suggest to search for medievel reenactments in Victoria Texas. http://www.historicevents.com.au/

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

BigCy ~

Not yet! I'm still doing some research - and yet, at the same time I'm shaking my head as I go. I would love more than anything for that dude to turn out to be from a Spanish military-type tent, but even as I type the words, I have to remind myself to be cautious! Only with more research will we ever know for certain! Additionally, I wish to note that several of the e-mails I sent went to institutions/museums in and around Victoria, Texas. Of the responses from Victoria, which were few, there is really nothing of interest to report that hasn't already been discussed. Just more guesses.
SBB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

You may be close to solving this.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Hey Mitch ~

I think it's just a rusted piece of junk! But just to show you I'm a good sport, I'll offer you $50.00 for it anyway. Of course, you have to pay for the shipping, which I expect would be about $50.00. Sounds like a deal to me!

Bob

 

[sonofmitch]

Sorry Bob. If your a museum I might give it to you for free once authenticated. An authentication that you have become a big part of by the way. Thanks ever so much. I think that "she" might be right. You know someone suggested something like that before. I was thinking then that it was meant maybe to go on the outside above the top of the tent and hold it up from above. The inside is a new possibility.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Hold your horses!

Today must be the day for e-mail responses ...

And just when we thought it was safe to go back into the water!

This just came in about ten minutes ago!

Bob,

We haven't come up with anything definitive about your bronze or brass item. The picture and description you provided were sent to the Texas Archeological Society listserv in hopes that it would look familiar to someone. It was also sent to a person who works with historic materials, but there was no obvious answer from either direction. The historic archeologist said that he agreed "with the preliminary suggestions in the quote [your description], that the thing, being formally ornamental, was intended to be seen as part of whatever it was attached to, whether a cowling of some sort or an actual functional/mechanical part of something (like a hub cap for a wheel, or covering for the works of a chandelier or ceiling fan)." He forwarded the information to another expert, but I haven't heard of new ideas from that direction.

~~~

Mitch ~

Like I said earlier, I just post 'em as I get 'em.

Bob

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Mitch ~

I suppose a simple inquiry to the so called pavilion archeologist would clairfy this, but from the initial research I've done, plus your suggestion that the dome thing went "outside" of the tent, I believe I understand better now what she meant. The image below will help illustrate what I mean when I suggest the finial may have had ropes attached to the six holes, and that the ropes spanned out to support the canvas of the tent itself. And, of course, the support pole fit into the hole part, and "Wah-la," you had a fully erect pavilion/tent with a flag on top of it!

Please understand I'm still groping for straws here. But hey, it was a bonified archeologist who suggested it! I just wish I could find a bonified photo of one of the darn things! And just for the record, Pavilion/Pavillion can also refer to a town square, annex building, band-stand, etc. etc. But I'm pretty sure the lady's use of the word "fabric" suggested tent.

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Mitch ~

You don't have to tell me I'm losing it! I realized that about forty years ago!

But I just couldn't help indulge myself with another post.

The photo below will catch you eye, and the link will give you the specifics.

http://www.greydragon.org/pavilions/basel.html

Not the right locale and era, but interesting nonetheless.

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Mitch ~

I just thought I would let you and everyone else know that I sent an e-mail inquiry to the Greydragon link that I posted above. If the guy really knows his stuff about pavilions, which I believe he does, he may be able to settle this whole pavilion thing once and for all. Keep your fingers crossed!

SBB