Does anyone know the laws regarding abandon colonial grave yards?

[HutSiteDigger]

I have a farmer friend of mine out near the Northern Neck of Virginia who let's me hunt his property though I haven't been back there in a few months due to the fact there wasn't much found there!! he told me about a spot on his farm (which is 800 acres and 300 a. of it is woods and marsh) that was more of less an abandon colonial graveyard or a slave graveyard, I went out to the spot today with him and dug a few test holes (in the rain) and hit 4 spots where there was big flat rocks (like a flat stone grave marker) about 6 inches in the ground, the rocks is so deteriorated you can't make anything out on them but you can clearly see that spots in this little section of the woods had to be a graveyard mainly with the small depressions in the ground and flat rocks being under them that was used for a gravestone. The land owner wants me too dig one of them up and see who or what is buried there he is thinking more of less it was pets like horses and sheep, my question is Since the farmer owns this property and the graveyard is abandon is this still legal to do? I was told that if the graveyard is on record and the graveyard is still intact that it is illegal unless you get permits from the county but if the graveyard is abandon with no tombstones visible and on private property you do not need permits. Any info would help because he is planning on logging this spot in the next 6 months, thanks.

 

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[Gator Trapper]

One word - Poltergeist.........

 

[HutSiteDigger]

One word - Poltergeist.........

I aint scared of no ghost.. I been in worse situations, i'm trying to ask a legit question to try and figure out what is buried there so we can make record of it and bring history back for these people buried there in the 18th century or possibly 17th century and protect the site from future logging because the landowner is considering logging the woods and wants to make sure it is no disturbed and if its just not a pet cemetery or what have not.

 

[dustytrails123]

Im pretty sure its not alright to dig dead peoples graves just to see if theres bodies there....disturbing to even think about something like that

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Im pretty sure its not alright to dig dead peoples graves just to see if theres bodies there....disturbing to even think about something like that

Not even sure if it is a graveyard and i respect your gentle approach of not disturbing something but when the logging crew comes in there and tears it all up not knowing it was a graveyard because "it is just too disturbing to think about" then may i ask what shall happen then? would you want bulldozers digging up your grave 200 years from now because know one took the time too see if it was really a graveyard? You make sure if people are buried there you document it and submit it to the county so the site is protected, i am not digging it up for relics but to make sure the site is preserved.

 

[dustytrails123]

Im pretty sure its not even legal to break ground at a site like that the only thing you can do is report it to the state archaeologist

 

[Pulltab Parson]

there is a reason we say Rest In Peace when we bury someone. . . .

I personally would want to continue to respect those who have gone before. If anything, it would be better to mow the grass, edge the stones and remark the graves. . .

Just my 2cents. . .

P.S. if the land owner wants to know what's there, hand him a shovel.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

P.S. if the land owner wants to know what's there, hand him a shovel.[/QUOTE]

That was my two cents for him lol... but i understand where he is coming from before running a bulldozer all through there but he wants to find bone and then send them to the state to make sure they are human and not horse or pets.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Im pretty sure its not even legal to break ground at a site like that the only thing you can do is report it to the state archaeologist

have you EVER dealt with state archaeologists before? the moment they find out your a metal detector you better stand wayyyy back and its like pulling teeth to get them to come out for anything unless your finding gold or george washingtons relatives

 

[PYRATE]

Leave 'em be...

Couple of excerpts from the Code of Virginia:

§ 18.2-126 Violation of sepulture; defilement of a dead human body; penalties.
A. If a person unlawfully disinters or displaces a dead human body, or any part of a dead human body which has been deposited in any vault, grave or other burial place, he is guilty of a Class 4 felony....
__

§ 18.2-127. Injuries to churches, church property, cemeteries, burial grounds, etc.; penalty.
.....B. Any person who willfully or maliciously destroys, mutilates, defaces, injures, or removes any object or structure permanently attached or affixed within any church or on church property, any tomb, monument, gravestone, or other structure placed within any cemetery, graveyard, or place of burial, or within any lot belonging to any memorial or monumental association, or any fence, railing, or other work for the protection or ornament of any tomb, monument, gravestone, or other structure aforesaid, or of any cemetery lot within any cemetery is guilty of a Class 6 felony.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

No no no, the "state archaeologist" is only going to have say-so over state land. A private land owner can do whatever-the-heck he wants on is own land. There's no law making it illegal to dig a grave (that I know of) on your own land. Not saying that will make it right in the eyes of a lot of t'net members, but .......... if the question was just about what's "legal" or not, that's the answer, IMHO.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

pyrate, thanx for the info. I wonder if there's wording like that in CA too? There was a contractor here who was using heavy equipment .... grading some land .... to make-way for industrial park blgs going to be built. The bulldozers exposed some fragmented remains of wood coffins, hinges, etc.... The workers stopped, took a look around, and figured it must be an old graveyard. Work stopped for the day as the owner of the company came out to take a look. Turned out the guy was a local historian, with ample access to lots of historical resources. He researched it, and found some vague reference to a graveyard that was supposed to have been somewhere in this area, but that all knowledge of exactly where, had been lost to time (it was just a shortlived 1850 to 1860s graveyard, and perhaps only a few dozen graves were ever there). So he reasoned that he'd just FOUND it, quite by accident He called out all sorts of authorities, and multiple agencies came out to take a look. In the end, once they determined that none of the bones were indian bones (it was a post-contact graveyard), no one cared!

So he just moved what he could (of his own accord, not sure if he was required to) to an existing newer graveyard across town, and continued with his work.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Leave 'em be...

Couple of excerpts from the Code of Virginia:

§ 18.2-126 Violation of sepulture; defilement of a dead human body; penalties.
A. If a person unlawfully disinters or displaces a dead human body, or any part of a dead human body which has been deposited in any vault, grave or other burial place, he is guilty of a Class 4 felony....
__

§ 18.2-127. Injuries to churches, church property, cemeteries, burial grounds, etc.; penalty.
.....B. Any person who willfully or maliciously destroys, mutilates, defaces, injures, or removes any object or structure permanently attached or affixed within any church or on church property, any tomb, monument, gravestone, or other structure placed within any cemetery, graveyard, or place of burial, or within any lot belonging to any memorial or monumental association, or any fence, railing, or other work for the protection or ornament of any tomb, monument, gravestone, or other structure aforesaid, or of any cemetery lot within any cemetery is guilty of a Class 6 felony.

I think that law is more setup for cemetery that is got visible tombstone and like i said is recorded with the county and state and does not apply for abandon graveyards with no tombstones visible that is what I was told by the county, that law is more intended for grave robbers and people digging up bodies and removing them from a cemetery, and like I said if they are left there the bulldozers will find out what they are in a few months. The only way to find out what is under those flat rocks is digging it up and pulling a couple bones out and sending them to the state other then that how in the world you gonna know if it was or was not a colonial graveyard? There are a lot of abandon graveyards in the northern neck of virginia with a lot of rev. war soldiers in them and lost 17th century graveyards.

 

[Pulltab Parson]

after growing up in CA, I'm sure that you would go to jail for up to 10 years for just thinking about it. . . . you know, thought police.

 

[poorman15]

I know a little bit about logging, a skidder can make a road pretty much anywhere. Place yellow construction tape around the area have them stay away from the possible graves. A simple solution without hurting any possible resting areas, it can't be that big of an area that they can't go around it.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

So he reasoned that he'd just FOUND it, quite by accident He called out all sorts of authorities, and multiple agencies came out to take a look. In the end, once they determined that none of the bones were indian bones (it was a post-contact graveyard), no one cared!

So he just moved what he could (of his own accord, not sure if he was required to) to an existing newer graveyard across town, and continued with his work.

Dam that sucks that no one cared, guess thats the way it goes.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

I know a little bit about logging, a skidder can make a road pretty much anywhere. Place yellow construction tape around the area have them stay away from the possible graves. A simple solution without hurting any possible resting areas, it can't be that big of an area that they can't go around it.

More of less that is what i'm gonna tell him to do tomorrow and tell him to contact his property lawyer for 100% answer.. Or hey just let the bulldozers and logging equipment run through there and destory everything, that is normally how it goes anyway.

 

[kuger]

well,I can also tell you that if you are caught with a human bone you are in deep do-doo regardless where you got it,private land or not...in any state.Its against Federal law!!!Also I know of one person that was a correctional officer...with 16 years in,that decided to do his own little archi dig on some Indian burial sites on his OWN property...he went to prison....on the other side of the bars...in CALIFORNIA,so ya might wanna check the laws TOM

 

[HutSiteDigger]

well,I can also tell you that if you are caught with a human bone you are in deep do-doo regardless where you got it,private land or not...in any state.Its against Federal law!!!Also I know of one person that was a correctional officer...with 16 years in,that decided to do his own little archi dig on some Indian burial sites on his OWN property...he went to prison....on the other side of the bars...in CALIFORNIA,so ya might wanna check the laws TOM

I know lot of MDers who dug around old Civil War hospitals and have found human bones before, how does that law apply to that? and why would the county tell me it was okay to dig up an abandon grave yard if it is not on record, because they have had problems with people building houses on graveyards before and none of them cared who or what they just bulldozed the abandon graveyard and hauled it out and up went houses. Why did none of them go to prison? If it is not Indian like Tom CA said NO one Cares...

 

[dieselram94]

I would think if you are determined to do this......and I understand you are trying to protect the site, I would first try to get one of those ground penetrating sonar devices and see if the soil show to have been disturbed and map what you find. If this is not possible then you AND the owner should dig very gently down and see if you can find a hinge, nails, or other remains of a casket. And be very, very quiet about it. As far as removing bones.....well that is best left to the professionals. Maybe the land owner could just not log and or run logging equipment through this particular site? If I were you I would also stop talking about it online....you never know who is listening and waiting to nail you (this kind of thing has happened with gold dredging in california). Just saying.