Early Scottish Rite Notebook on ritual rediscovered

mdog · May 30, 2015

Thanks again for the information, Senior Deacon. I might take advantage of the Lodge's generosity.

I have a question for you. What would a Templars responsibilities have been in a 19th century lodge?

senior deacon · May 30, 2015

mdog my answer might vary from that of my most learned and esteemed brother Rebel-KGC. Here is my take on the subject. They would have had no responsibility in a Freemason's lodge what so ever. The Knight's Templar is a independent Masonic order that is part of the York Rite of Freemasonry. Each of the parts of masonry has it's own responsibility to it's own members. The members have a responsibility to one another and to the order. Today the only interaction between the two orders are that the Knights Templar will provide a uniform escort for the Grand Master in certain States for the laying of Cornerstones and Masonic Funerals of high Masonic figures. Such as Grand Masters or past Grand Masters and masons at the request of the brother or his family.

The Structure of Freemasonry in the 19th century was that the blue lodge was the base the foundation . To join any other rite one had to be a Master Mason first. A Master Mason was and is as High as One can get in the Fraternity. The Rites both York and Scottish are like a college. They expand on the lessons that you first learn and teach you how to better implement them into your life. There by making you a better man.

I don't think that this may be the answer that you are hoping for. They are not the military arm of the Freemasons. They are a benevolent order that today funds eye research in to sight robbing diseases. BTW the Knights Templar degree and the 30th. Degree of the Scottish Rite are basically the same degree with one big difference. The degrees after the 30th. degree in the Scottish Rite expand on the teachings of the 30th. degree of the Scottish Rite and the 3rd. degree of the Blue Lodge.

Now I would love to hear what Brother Rebel has to say on the subject. As he might have a different idea that would add to your understanding of the subject at hand. As he is very knowledgeable on the subject as well. Remember that we must keep our minds open to all ideas. Sometime we become wiser by doing so.

Senior Deacon

mdog · May 30, 2015

Thanks again for the reply, Senior Deacon.

Rebel - KGC · May 31, 2015

senior deacon said:
mdog my answer might vary from that of my most learned and esteemed brother Rebel-KGC. Here is my take on the subject. They would have had no responsibility in a Freemason's lodge what so ever. The Knight's Templar is a independent Masonic order that is part of the York Rite of Freemasonry. Each of the parts of masonry has it's own responsibility to it's own members. The members have a responsibility to one another and to the order. Today the only interaction between the two orders are that the Knights Templar will provide a uniform escort for the Grand Master in certain States for the laying of Cornerstones and Masonic Funerals of high Masonic figures. Such as Grand Masters or past Grand Masters and masons at the request of the brother or his family.

The Structure of Freemasonry in the 19th century was that the blue lodge was the base the foundation . To join any other rite one had to be a Master Mason first. A Master Mason was and is as High as One can get in the Fraternity. The Rites both York and Scottish are like a college. They expand on the lessons that you first learn and teach you how to better implement them into your life. There by making you a better man.

I don't think that this may be the answer that you are hoping for. They are not the military arm of the Freemasons. They are a benevolent order that today funds eye research in to sight robbing diseases. BTW the Knights Templar degree and the 30th. Degree of the Scottish Rite are basically the same degree with one big difference. The degrees after the 30th. degree in the Scottish Rite expand on the teachings of the 30th. degree of the Scottish Rite and the 3rd. degree of the Blue Lodge.

Now I would love to hear what Brother Rebel has to say on the subject. As he might have a different idea that would add to your understanding of the subject at hand. As he is very knowledgeable on the subject as well. Remember that we must keep our minds open to all ideas. Sometime we become wiser by doing so.

Senior Deacon

TY, Bro SD... You have it ALL correct. I am not FKT; they ARE "encouraging" me to join. NOT yet, Bros. It IS part of York Rite; Degrees 8-10... I have seen the Rituals; ALL "OT". "Google" YORK RITE - Freemasonry.

mdog · May 31, 2015

senior deacon said:
mdog my answer might vary from that of my most learned and esteemed brother Rebel-KGC. Here is my take on the subject. They would have had no responsibility in a Freemason's lodge what so ever. The Knight's Templar is a independent Masonic order that is part of the York Rite of Freemasonry. Each of the parts of masonry has it's own responsibility to it's own members. The members have a responsibility to one another and to the order. Today the only interaction between the two orders are that the Knights Templar will provide a uniform escort for the Grand Master in certain States for the laying of Cornerstones and Masonic Funerals of high Masonic figures. Such as Grand Masters or past Grand Masters and masons at the request of the brother or his family.

The Structure of Freemasonry in the 19th century was that the blue lodge was the base the foundation . To join any other rite one had to be a Master Mason first. A Master Mason was and is as High as One can get in the Fraternity. The Rites both York and Scottish are like a college. They expand on the lessons that you first learn and teach you how to better implement them into your life. There by making you a better man.

I don't think that this may be the answer that you are hoping for. They are not the military arm of the Freemasons. They are a benevolent order that today funds eye research in to sight robbing diseases. BTW the Knights Templar degree and the 30th. Degree of the Scottish Rite are basically the same degree with one big difference. The degrees after the 30th. degree in the Scottish Rite expand on the teachings of the 30th. degree of the Scottish Rite and the 3rd. degree of the Blue Lodge.

Now I would love to hear what Brother Rebel has to say on the subject. As he might have a different idea that would add to your understanding of the subject at hand. As he is very knowledgeable on the subject as well. Remember that we must keep our minds open to all ideas. Sometime we become wiser by doing so.

Senior Deacon

As I understand your post, the Masons are a benevolent organization that teaches its members a code of conduct that will help them become better individuals. That seems to be a noble endeavor so why the secrecy and why is membership limited to only those who are invited? And it doesn't seem that the Masons, as an organization, would be involved with an outfit, like the KGC or the Klan. If that is the case, why would anybody in the Masons author KGC rituals and then place those rituals in a Masonic library where any Mason could find them?

I ask these questions with all due respect and in a non confrontational manner. Just trying to learn.

Rebel - KGC · May 31, 2015

"INVITED"...? NAH... ASK 1, to BE 1. THAT is the "CODE"...

senior deacon · May 31, 2015

There are a very few instances where people have been invited to join. Rebel has pegged this one. To be one you have to ask one to join. At least in the deep south here in Texas and Louisiana. The second part of your question as to why we have secrets. These are only so that one mason may know another mason in the dark of night as well as in the light of day. They are what we call the modes of recognition. All the rest I am able to talk about and have.

Freemasonry HAS NEVER AND WILL NEVER be associated with the KKK. PERIOD.

As far as the K.G.C. most the the founding fathers of that organization were Masons and borrowed from the the ritual rewritten to suit them. In a way that they could have there own deep and sometimes dark secrets. That is one of the reasons that I am searching for the writers of their ritual as I believe that it will contain information or clues to the K.G.C. treasure. Realize that there were many organizations that borrowed from the Masonic Fraternity their rituals. I have seen a copy of the ritual of the American Grange. It is almost the same as that of the masons. Why would the K.G.C. ritual end up in a Masonic Library simple, some one found a copy of the ritual in Gram pa's belongings along with his Masonic things not knowing what to do with them. They were given to the local lodge. The local lodge not knowing what to do with the K.G.C. ritual, past it along to the Grand Lodge Library and that is where it sits today. Somewhere!!!!

I was a secretary of my local lodge in Iowa for 10 years. In that time I don't know or can count how many times a family would come to me and deliver a box of Masonic items to me, not knowing exactly what to do with them after a family member had passed. I hauled boxes of Masonic item to the Grand Lodge Library and Museum some they were happy to receive some were sent back home to rest in the storage closet of our local lodge.

I hope that this answers some of your questions. Any others that I can answer I will.

Senior Deacon

Rebel - KGC · Jun 1, 2015

senior deacon said:
There are a very few instances where people have been invited to join. Rebel has pegged this one. To be one you have to ask one to join. At least in the deep south here in Texas and Louisiana. The second part of your question as to why we have secrets. These are only so that one mason may know another mason in the dark of night as well as in the light of day. They are what we call the modes of recognition. All the rest I am able to talk about and have.

Freemasonry HAS NEVER AND WILL NEVER be associated with the KKK. PERIOD.

As far as the K.G.C. most the the founding fathers of that organization were Masons and borrowed from the the ritual rewritten to suit them. In a way that they could have there own deep and sometimes dark secrets. That is one of the reasons that I am searching for the writers of their ritual as I believe that it will contain information or clues to the K.G.C. treasure. Realize that there were many organizations that borrowed from the Masonic Fraternity their rituals. I have seen a copy of the ritual of the American Grange. It is almost the same as that of the masons. Why would the K.G.C. ritual end up in a Masonic Library simple, some one found a copy of the ritual in Gram pa's belongings along with his Masonic things not knowing what to do with them. They were given to the local lodge. The local lodge not knowing what to do with the K.G.C. ritual, past it along to the Grand Lodge Library and that is where it sits today. Somewhere!!!!

I was a secretary of my local lodge in Iowa for 10 years. In that time I don't know or can count how many times a family would come to me and deliver a box of Masonic items to me, not knowing exactly what to do with them after a family member had passed. I hauled boxes of Masonic item to the Grand Lodge Library and Museum some they were happy to receive some were sent back home to rest in the storage closet of our local lodge.

I hope that this answers some of your questions. Any others that I can answer I will.

Senior Deacon

Once again, Bro... you are TOTALLY correct; my dad was home Blue Lodge Secretary for 30 years (Secretaries REALLY "run the Lodges"... NOT WM); HA! MY Grandpa was WM in 1928, my dad in 1955, and I was WM in 1981/part of 82. I have BOTH grandpa's CIPHER BOOKS (other grandpa was "Odd Fellow")... they are FUN! I even have Order of Essenes
Cipher Book; "same old, same old". Seen KGC 1st Degree Ritual & By-Laws of Castroville, TX Castle... NOTHING radical; "on-line".

mdog · Jun 1, 2015

Thanks again S.D. and Rebel for the information in your posts. :thumbsup:

senior deacon · Jun 1, 2015

Rebel re-read your last post on this thread. I remember one of our older members had donated a copy of the order of the Essences cipher. Almost word for word to a King Solomon. Shows that the Masonic ritual was followed by most other orders. Guess that they knew that there was none better.

S.D.

Rebel - KGC · Jun 2, 2015

senior deacon said:
Rebel re-read your last post on this thread. I remember one of our older members had donated a copy of the order of the Essences cipher. Almost word for word to a King Solomon. Shows that the Masonic ritual was followed by most other orders. Guess that they knew that there was none better.

S.D.

True... what I have is the actual RITUAL Book; not a book of CIPHERS. I will have to "dig it out" of my MASONIC MYSTICISM Box...

L.C. BAKER · Jun 2, 2015

senior deacon said:
Rebel re-read your last post on this thread. I remember one of our older members had donated a copy of the order of the Essences cipher. Almost word for word to a King Solomon. Shows that the Masonic ritual was followed by most other orders. Guess that they knew that there was none better.

S.D.

Ever ask yourself why Bro. Pike wrote Morals and Dogma? What did he truly leave for us to grasp?

L.C.

Rebel - KGC · Jun 2, 2015

L.C. BAKER said:
Ever ask yourself why Bro. Pike wrote Morals and Dogma? What did he truly leave for us to grasp?

L.C.

Eh...? YOU tell us!

senior deacon · Jun 3, 2015

L.C. and Rebel, I spend one winter in Iowa reading Morals and Dogma. I read it with a dictionary in one hand and Morals and Dogma in the other . Then kept a copy of Secrets of all ages past handy to figure out some of the philosophy and legends that he would refer to.

Some of the scholars have said that he wrote it to show that Masonry was superior to Transcendental Magic that was gaining popularity in Europe at that time. He also was said that he wrote it to show that he was a better writer that Eliphas Levi one of his rivals at the time. He must have succeeded as more people know about Pikes and his book than Levi and his book. Read them both. Pike is as hard to understand as Levi. Pike's philosophy is easier to accept than Levi.

What did he leave us, Two things. A greater understanding of the Scottish Rite and also clues to some sort of treasure somewhere, Pay particular attention to the last two chapters.

S.D.

Walker Colt · Jun 3, 2015

It seems pretty obvious to me that Bickley wrote the original KGC ritual. He wrote the Rules and Regulations and Principles of the KGC which is at the National Archives in DC. I have a copy. The ritual is in the same style of writing. The reason it resembles masonic ritual is because he was probably a member of the craft. He claimed to be a widow's son in his letter to Sec. Stanton and in a letter to him he is called a brother mason. Himself, his friends, enemies, spies all claimed he was the originator of the KGC which he founded july 4, 1854. Of course the American Legion command eventually fell to the state leaders.

senior deacon · Jun 3, 2015

WC Don't think that Bickley did. Yes he may have been a widows son. How proficient was he in the work. There were others that were in a position to do that sort of work and would have been given that job to further the cause. I am of the opinion that Bickley was in it for the money. The first few years of its existence he held absolute power but towards the war there were cracks in his power. Gen. E Greer held it for a year and Bickley took back the leadership. Think the end was the last filibuster in to Mexico. He was ten days late in arriving and with no money and little supplies and men as promised. After this it took on a life of its own with Texas leading the way and the leaders were the men who would lead the confederacy.

No disrespect only my opinion. It cost you what you pay for it. Which is not even two cents and that is what it might be worth. Why the sentinels, the Maps, the tales of K.G.C. treasure? There must be a shred of true to some of this or we are all wasting a lot of time and have been duped for 155 years.

Sincerely and Respectfully

Senior Deacon

Rebel - KGC · Jun 4, 2015

Hmmm... wasn't there a Castle/Lodge ORDER from Texas, called the Order of the Star (or LONE STAR) of the 1840's that "morphed" into the KGC of the 1850's/60's...?

Walker Colt · Jun 4, 2015

The OLS was founded in 1851 in LaFayette, La. Their ritual was written by U.S. senator John Henderson. They didn't merge with the KGC until after 1858. I'm sure Bickley borrowed heavily on their ritual as well as other southern rights clubs he was involved with.

senior deacon · Jun 4, 2015

That Walker Colt I can agree with. But do think that Rob Morris and Albert Pike had a hand at the K.G.C. Ritual. At the time that the Order of the Lone Star was merging with the K.G.C. Bickley was on the way out think that he had wrung all the cash that he could or maybe wanted. He handed over Leadership to Gen. Elkanah Greer and he had loftier expectations of the K.G.C. but was soon disappointed. There are some stories that are told of Pike after he was relieved of command of the Indian forces that he had and hid large amounts of gold coins. He would have directed others to hide it is such a way as to been very difficult to find with out certain knowledge that he would have possessed. He set up a sentinel system and they were honor bound to uphold and protect the treasure for time immemorial. One reason today I am very cautious when I do field work in this part of the country. I am of the opinion that the ties of the masonic lodge were some how merged with the K.G.C. and those ties are are very, Very strong. Again my opinion cost you what you pay for it. and is worth what it is.

Senior Deacon

L.C. BAKER · Jun 9, 2015

Scapegoat?

I think that when it comes to Bickley and other members of the K.G.C. that were said to be founders and writers of rituals etc., the truth becomes evident when we consider the K.G.C. was operating in the 1830's and possibly even before that. Anything that Bickley accomplished in his lifetime was an afterthought at best. IMO he was more like our president...a puppet with someone else moving his lips.

Just my two cents L.C.