EPA Bans Most Wood-Burning Stoves

[Dave44]

Firewall pitched a fit when I hit the page. Thanks, none for me.

Lol. Smart fella. Does the library scrub sites before you look at them?

 

[Rob in KS]

Radioactive contamination of wood and its... [J Environ Radioact. 2001] - PubMed - NCBI

Good thing we don't live near Chernoble...or in Croatia
I'm just using the carbon that has been sequestered in my trees... can I get a tax credit please

 

[dieselram94]

EHHI :: The Health Effects of Wood Smoke

◾Although wood smoke conjures up fond memories of sitting by a cozy fire, it is important to know that the components of wood smoke and cigarette smoke are quite similar, and that many components of both are carcinogenic. Wood smoke contains fine particulate matter, carbon monoxide, formaldehyde, sulfur dioxide and various irritant gases such as nitrogen oxides that can scar the lungs. Wood smoke also contains chemicals known or suspected to be carcinogens, such as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) and dioxin.



yea...that's what we need...more dioxin....

So does my farts after a trip to Taco Bell. Maybe we should all just put a pair of Hanes underwear over the chimney so it can act as a filter. Heck it captures all my expelled particulate matter!!!

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[Limitool]

Frank, I heat exclusively with wood pellets. One small stove and a pellet furnace. I to have per installed in my floor and plan on installing a stainless steel loop in the firebox of the furnace with a circulation pump and just continually circulate. I think i can cut dramatically my pellet usage even more...

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I got a question for you.... I use a pellet stove in my barn / wood working shop. The barn is completely insulated and dry walled with 10' ceiling. It's about 1000 sq. ft. The pellet stove does heat it up nicely enough to work (when its real cold outside) but it takes awhile. The stove sits about 18" from wall and exhaust pipe goes straight out through wall. The exhaust pipe gets very hot (as you know). Here's what I was thinking maybe and need some opinions or feedback: Since the exhaust pipe get very hot and is a total of about 3ft. long a lot of heat is going outside directly. I was wondering if the exhaust pipe could be added to internally so that it weaved up/down or back and forth say to include maybe 20ft. or more of internal pipe 3" pipe. Now I know this will disrupt the normal exhaust flow and leave a lot of smoke to flow internally into barn and the fire not to breath in firebox. BUT... if an external small fan was running at the other end of the exhaust pipe at the right speed to "pull" then a lot of heat could escape from the internal piping instead of going outside directly. I'd use single layer not triple until I went through the wall again. Would it work or be forth the effort because that pipe puts out a lot of wasted heat....

 

[Frankn]

I got a question for you.... I use a pellet stove in my barn / wood working shop. The barn is completely insulated and dry walled with 10' ceiling. It's about 1000 sq. ft. The pellet stove does heat it up nicely enough to work (when its real cold outside) but it takes awhile. The stove sits about 18" from wall and exhaust pipe goes straight out through wall. The exhaust pipe gets very hot (as you know). Here's what I was thinking maybe and need some opinions or feedback: Since the exhaust pipe get very hot and is a total of about 3ft. long a lot of heat is going outside directly. I was wondering if the exhaust pipe could be added to internally so that it weaved up/down or back and forth say to include maybe 20ft. or more of internal pipe 3" pipe. Now I know this will disrupt the normal exhaust flow and leave a lot of smoke to flow internally into barn and the fire not to breath in firebox. BUT... if an external small fan was running at the other end of the exhaust pipe at the right speed to "pull" then a lot of heat could escape from the internal piping instead of going outside directly. I'd use single layer not triple until I went through the wall again. Would it work or be forth the effort because that pipe puts out a lot of wasted heat....

The draft is critical in a heating system. The exhaust emitted creates negative pressure in the heater to draw in more air for combustion. To scavenger more heat, you could run the pipe up and across the shop and out the other side. Install concrete board or stand off aluminum directly above the flue as it runs across. Ceiling fans blowing the heat down would also help. There is also a unit that mount between the heater and the wall that has a fan and literally blows air thru the flue to scavenger heat. Hope this helps, Frank...

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

10 ft straight up is what I learned...before one puts any bends into the exhaust...

 

[Limitool]

The draft is critical in a heating system. The exhaust emitted creates negative pressure in the heater to draw in more air for combustion. To scavenger more heat, you could run the pipe up and across the shop and out the other side. Install concrete board or stand off aluminum directly above the flue as it runs across. Ceiling fans blowing the heat down would also help. There is also a unit that mount between the heater and the wall that has a fan and literally blows air thru the flue to scavenger heat. Hope this helps, Frank...
View attachment 921515

Frankn.... Thanks. I have 5 ceiling fans installed and they do help pull the heat downward from the 10ft. ceiling. And I do realize the exhaust is important. I'd really hate to install the pipe up and across the shop as it would only turn into ANOTHER dust/sawdust collection "thing". This is why I thought maybe of putting a fan outside on the end of the pipe if I did do the "weaving" thing.

pippinwhitepaws... "10 ft straight up is what I learned...before one puts any bends into the exhaust"... you say. I did have ideas of redoing the exhaust to do just this this. Now it just goes straight out the back and through wall with a short downspout. I just thought that if 10 ft. of single pipe was good how about a LOT. That's why pulling the exhaust from outside would be required. I'm probably way over thinking this idea...!!!!!! Thanks guys.... Brad

 

[releventchair]

I,ve stuck in the past with only two elbows allowed.
But, a couple tees, multiple ells and a couple straight pieces could form a flow through square to scavenge heat from.
Simpler would be to add cooling fins to and around stack made from scrap to use osmosis and a fan to pull more heat off pipe as long as exhaust temp is sufficient to not encourage creosote accumulation prematurely.
Thermal mass,(stone,brick,sand,water ect.) heated by being near will release stored heat even after fire is out. Water needs expansion room and protection from freezing.
Some ideas.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

oh...I used to gather gears from transmissions, big chunks of steel...pack around the stove...the heat settles in the large metal objects...keeps heat in the area.

best to burn outside in a fire before bringing oil soaked metal into the shop.

 

[Frankn]

Putting salt in the fire occasionally will eliminate creosote in the flue pipe.
Putting a kettle of water on the heater will increase humidity making it feel warmer and keep the woodworking from shrinking. Hay I use to heat my old house with a Columbian cook stove and a 2 barrel wood burning setup.

Frank...

 

[Limitool]

Putting salt in the fire occasionally will eliminate creosote in the flue pipe.
Putting a kettle of water on the heater will increase humidity making it feel warmer and keep the woodworking from shrinking. Hay I use to heat my old house with a Columbian cook stove and a 2 barrel wood burning setup.

Frank...
View attachment 921847

Thanks guys for the suggestions.... I want to make clear here that I'm not talking about a wood burning stove here but rather a pellet stove. It has just a small burning pot inside and a auger that turns dropping pellets into the pot to burn. You can at any time lay your hands anywhere on this stove and never get burned. The only thing that gets hot/warm externally (somewhat) is the triple insulated exiting the back of the stove and heading directly outside a short distance. Entire pipe is probably only 30" long. This is the pipe I'd like to "weave" around internally (single layer) before heading through wall outside. ?

 

[cooper36]

I dont see what the big deal is? Just like how cars must meet certain emissions and MPG standards, new wood burning stoves must meet standards too.

From the EPA website: "The draft revisions, which are soon to be proposed, would apply to new heaters ONLY and would not apply to existing wood stoves and other wood heaters installed in peoples’ homes".

So, you can keep your old wood stove as long as you want. If you wanted to go buy a new wood stove, the new stove would already comply with the new standards. Thus, this will not affect consumers in any way shape or form. If you were a manufacturer of wood stoves, then you might have a reason to complain.

Otherwise, this article is nothing more than propaganda for and by people who want any reason possible to complain about the Government.

Kind of like, if you like your insurance you can keep it

 

[Limitool]

Originally Posted by jerseyben "I don't see what the big deal is? Just like how cars must meet certain emissions and MPG standards, new wood burning stoves must meet standards too."

So with this (your) line of thinking you believe its our Federal Gov't job to set emission and MPG standards? If you do.... then yea "What's the big deal"? There is no damn difference... just more government regulations telling private business what they can and can't do according to them. I happen to believe THEY need to stay out of private businesses and just collect taxes and protect the United States.... period.

"...would apply to new heaters ONLY and would not apply to existing wood stoves and other wood heaters installed in peoples’ homes".... This does effect consumers in the future. You get to still drive your old car also while regulations drive up the price of newer ones just like the stoves.

And it is a big deal to me because I do not want MY Gov't poking it nose into private businesses and dictating what can and cannot be done. And yes I'm complaining about YOUR Government. Do you work for them?

 

[dieselram94]

I got a question for you.... I use a pellet stove in my barn / wood working shop. The barn is completely insulated and dry walled with 10' ceiling. It's about 1000 sq. ft. The pellet stove does heat it up nicely enough to work (when its real cold outside) but it takes awhile. The stove sits about 18" from wall and exhaust pipe goes straight out through wall. The exhaust pipe gets very hot (as you know). Here's what I was thinking maybe and need some opinions or feedback: Since the exhaust pipe get very hot and is a total of about 3ft. long a lot of heat is going outside directly. I was wondering if the exhaust pipe could be added to internally so that it weaved up/down or back and forth say to include maybe 20ft. or more of internal pipe 3" pipe. Now I know this will disrupt the normal exhaust flow and leave a lot of smoke to flow internally into barn and the fire not to breath in firebox. BUT... if an external small fan was running at the other end of the exhaust pipe at the right speed to "pull" then a lot of heat could escape from the internal piping instead of going outside directly. I'd use single layer not triple until I went through the wall again. Would it work or be forth the effort because that pipe puts out a lot of wasted heat....

I wouldn't have any unnecessary length or bends as pellet stoves are very finnicky about proper air flow for combustion.
After your pipe exits the wall, ideally it should have a vertical rise of at least three feet.

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[dieselram94]

The exhaust pipe should not get very hot to the touch. 120* max...
You might have to much air going through your stove. What is the color and constancy of the ash inside your stove? Should resemble cigarette ash...

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[Limitool]

The exhaust pipe should not get very hot to the touch. 120* max...
You might have to much air going through your stove. What is the color and constancy of the ash inside your stove? Should resemble cigarette ash...

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Thank you... and yes the ash is as you questioned. Now my exhaust pipe goes straight out and then a short downspout. But I've used this stove for 15 years with no problems at all. I was just trying to "steal" more heat from the exhaust piping. Sounds like I better move on.... Thanks, Brad

 

[Chadeaux]

Thanks guys for the suggestions.... I want to make clear here that I'm not talking about a wood burning stove here but rather a pellet stove. It has just a small burning pot inside and a auger that turns dropping pellets into the pot to burn. You can at any time lay your hands anywhere on this stove and never get burned. The only thing that gets hot/warm externally (somewhat) is the triple insulated exiting the back of the stove and heading directly outside a short distance. Entire pipe is probably only 30" long. This is the pipe I'd like to "weave" around internally (single layer) before heading through wall outside. ?

(I AM NOT AN EXPERT WITH STOVES!!!)

Question: Couldn't you create an opening on either end of the exterior layer of flue and use a small fan to force the heat out into the room? Even an old computer fan should be able to push cooler air into the pipe and the second opening would allow exhaust of the warm air.

If it won't work, sorry ... just a question that came to my mind.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

(I AM NOT AN EXPERT WITH STOVES!!!)

Question: Couldn't you create an opening on either end of the exterior layer of flue and use a small fan to force the heat out into the room? Even an old computer fan should be able to push cooler air into the pipe and the second opening would allow exhaust of the warm air.

If it won't work, sorry ... just a question that came to my mind.

When I lived in Missouri I had a wood stove in the basement, took a flue pipe stacked it on top the stove sitting on top of a tuna can full of holes, pipe extended to the ceiling, I cut a hole in floor and installed a floor duct with a fan.

In winter I fired up the stove in basement and it heated the house above quite well with out the stove being so hot you couldn't enjoy the finished basement where the family room was...

SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM

MALO PERICULOSAM, LIBERTATEM QUAM QUIETAM SERVITUTEM


We will NOT go quietly into the night!

 

[truckinbutch]

We call it shock cooling in distilling . If you don't maintain gradual heat curves in a heat path the whole process is defeated . Same with wood heat . Recover too much heat from your flue and you kill the draft and concentrate solids in the flue pipe (creosote) instead of venting it to the outside atmosphere .

 

[Chadeaux]

We call it shock cooling in distilling . If you don't maintain gradual heat curves in a heat path the whole process is defeated . Same with wood heat . Recover too much heat from your flue and you kill the draft and concentrate solids in the flue pipe (creosote) instead of venting it to the outside atmosphere .

Good thing I didn't try something like I was asking about then. Thanks for the advice.