grooved stone tool!

[Charl]

I do have a lot to learn. Would you admit that possibly you still have room to learn.

Of course I do. When, in the course of any of your threads, have I indicated that I have nothing else to learn in life? I attempted to address your now deleted comment. I was making an honest effort to help you. And you were intellectually dishonest by deleting your comment. You can't tolerate constructive criticism. If your fin-like rock is natural, why should I lie to you and tell you it's man made? If I can't make honest observations, without senseless comments by you, such as I am quoting above, then we have nothing to talk about. Your "I'm gonna take my rocks and go home" attitude reflects on you, and only you.....

 

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[The Grim Reaper]

I can't verify from the pictures but possibly for smoothing arrow shafts.

The groove would be straight if that were the case.

 

[jamus peek]

Of course I do. When, in the course of any of your threads, have I indicated that I have nothing else to learn in life? I attempted to address your now deleted comment. I was making an honest effort to help you. And you were intellectually dishonest by deleting your comment. You can't tolerate constructive criticism. If your fin-like rock is natural, why should I lie to you and tell you it's man made? If I can't make honest observations, without senseless comments by you, such as I am quoting above, then we have nothing to talk about. Your "I'm gonna take my rocks and go home" attitude reflects on you, and only you.....

.

I deleted the post because it is upsetting that atleast 50% of opinions I have received here differ from opinions I have gotten in person. I live near 3 museums I make a lot of trips to these museums as well as have a contact whom is an archeologist and trust me he has seen my rocks and he has seen this anchor in which is authenticated. I have donated fossils and artifacts. It's okay though you believe what you want. Also if you read correctly the conclusion on the anchor is it wasn't meant to stop the canoe tides really rip where I am from it was meant to slow down the canoe to trolling speed thus the reason for the fin to allow th anchor to drag in the mud with the fin at a diagonal angle allowing the canoe the momentum needed. Which obviously would be easier to hunt quail as well as other types of hunting. Lets leave it at that. If you don't believe me that's fine

 

[Charl]

I do have a lot to learn. Would you admit that possibly you still have room to learn.

jamus, I attempted to describe the situation you are putting yourself in, in comment # 18 of this thread. There are two mistakes that are tripping you up:

1. You don't have enough experience to distinguish artifact from geofact. It takes time. It takes developing an eye for it. I'm not perfect, and nobody here is perfect at making that call. There are a gazillion things I don't know, or have much knowledge regarding. Distinguishing rock from artifact is something I've been doing for 60 years. Can you even show how that fin rock was pecked and ground into shape? Can you Why is no such work visible on that rock? Could it be because it is natural?

2. The other problem is correctable, but it's up to you. You assume you know more then you do. You do not want to learn anything. You assume you know more then folks with decades of experience. Rather then acknowledge the help of such people, you decide to think more highly of yourself. You decide your inexperienced eye knows more then it actually does. It upsets you that we don't see things as you do. But, rather then conclude that you might not know everything you think you know, you conclude you must be right, and we must be wrong. People do this all the time. Making fools of themselves in the process.

 

[Charl]

.

I deleted the post because it is not part of the original topic. Guy's like me follow the rules on the forum. I can send you all the pics you want to see or start a new topic. I have had it looked at.

Baloney. Threads change directions all the time. That's lame. But, that said, I'll just apologize to you for trying to help you distinguish artifact and geofact. That was my mistake. I have seen denialists on this forum, on all the forums, and I clearly should have known better then to try and help educate you. It won't happen again.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Jamus, I have been collecting for over 50 years and I still learn new info about artifacts every day. But, as Charl has stated on here before, our 30, 40, 50+ years of experience help to determine a natural stone from an actual artifact. It is innate within us. We have studied so many artifacts, I estimate I have probably looked and at handled close to 100,000 artifacts in all these years and probably more, so we can just look at something and we get a feel for good/bad, artifact/geofact. It's hard to explain, but it just comes natural to people that have did this all our lives.

All of us are just doing our best to help you when you post something. If you post an artifact we will tell you so. Same with any natural stone you post. We are going to tell you it's our opinion it's natural. You say you have "professionals" looking at your pieces so are they collectors or archaeologists? You need to let someone from your area that has collected and handled a lot of your local artifacts to look at them. Stay clear of museums, colleges, and archys. Most don't really know a lot about true artifacts. There are some that do, like Matt Rowe for instance. Probably one the most knowledgeable people I know and he also runs a museum.

If you listen to us we will help to look for and spot true artifacts and once you start finding those you will enjoy the hobby much more.

Happy Hunting!!

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Jamus, as for the rock you posted that you think is a Fin for a boat, wouldn't have made a lot more sense to use wood?? Just sayin'.

 

[Charl]

Jamus, as for the rock you posted that you think is a Fin for a boat, wouldn't have made a lot more sense to use wood?? Just sayin'.

Personally, I tire of the "archaeologists" that are so often cited by denialists as somehow being proof of an authentic artifact. We all know it does not work that way. It's transparent and absurd. That archaeologists seldom have as much experience as long time collectors, both in handling artifacts, and in separating artifact from geofact, is well known. Some certainly do. But most spend more time pushing paper then handling lithics. It's just makes me shake my head to think some believe "an archaeologist has authenticated this" is some kind of get-out-of-jail trump card, that can't be topped. Argument over. When, in fact, it is so often absurd when one simply looks at the rock.

 

[jamus peek]

Personally, I tire of the "archaeologists" that are so often cited by denialists as somehow being proof of an authentic artifact. We all know it does not work that way. It's transparent and absurd. That archaeologists seldom have as much experience as long time collectors, both in handling artifacts, and in separating artifact from geofact, is well known. Some certainly do. But most spend more time pushing paper then handling lithics. It's just makes me shake my head to think some believe "an archaeologist has authenticated this" is some kind of get-out-of-jail trump card, that can't be topped. Argument over. When, in fact, it is so often absurd when one simply looks at the rock.

It's not an argument. I understand to a degree what you are saying. My problem is really simple. You look at 2 pics an say it is natural. He spent a lot more time diagnosing. He pointed out striations notches and how nice the work was done for the purpose of the anchor. I think anybody who is my situation would understand my issues. And when you discredit an archeologists opinion when all you have seen is 2 pics that say's a lot about you.

Also I have seen the hoard of California artifacts. Very few are grooved axes or the things I see on line. Most of the items I have seen are of geometric design very beautiful well made tools with lots of angles. Very seldom you see the same design. The hafting methods are different on each one. Some have opposite notches on both sides others are narrowed towards the back by pecking and grinding with clear notches on the side of the bodies as opposed to the top. I have access to looking at these whenever I want. As mentioned I am learning you however need to open up the possibility that because you don't recognize something does not mean it is not authentic. You do not have to reply to my threads but are welcome to.

Also everybody keeps telling me they are here to help me. I believe this with the exception of a few disrespectful posters that back each other up like children.

 

[jamus peek]

Jamus, as for the rock you posted that you think is a Fin for a boat, wouldn't have made a lot more sense to use wood?? Just sayin'.

It's all good Grim I know you know you're stuff. We will talk again someday and I really appreciate you replying to my posts And I realize you are doing you're best to give the best educated opinion based on you're knowledge base and what you have seen. That's why I am so perplexed as why locals have different opinions.

 

[jamus peek]

Baloney. Threads change directions all the time. That's lame. But, that said, I'll just apologize to you for trying to help you distinguish artifact and geofact. That was my mistake. I have seen denialists on this forum, on all the forums, and I clearly should have known better then to try and help educate you. It won't happen again.

It was lame it was a reaction that I wish I did not do. I am far from perfect but I try. My opinion is you are wrong based on what I have learned and what others have pointed out. Good luck.

 

[monsterrack]

Can't touch this !!!!

 

[jamus peek]

Can't touch this !!!!View attachment 1365207

Good job a lot of people will love this I imagine you will get at least 6 likes. Indirectly put somebody down and receive likes while you're doing it. Smart man not respectable though

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Please end the insults.

 

[jamus peek]

It's all good Grim I know you know you're stuff. We will talk again someday and I really appreciate you replying to my posts And I realize you are doing you're best to give the best educated opinion based on you're knowledge base and what you have seen. That's why I am so perplexed as why locals have different opinions.

Also I didn't ever say it was a fin for a boat. And yes that would be rediculous.

 

[monsterrack]

First Jamus I didn't post that to put you down are to make fun of you. I put that up because I read all the comments from the others that I know to have a great deal of experience in artifacts and there would be nothing I could add to this. The little animal was for a photo for (I don't understand). I have not and never will make fun of someone who post an item that gets shot down by people that know a lot about artifacts. If you want to prove your point on a item that is not a mainstream artifact post photos from a controlled dig or a professional that put out a paper with photo's and others will take what you state better. Sorry if you took my post the wrong way !!!!!

 

[rock]

Limestone in my area isnt heavy at all.

I just took a 2nd look at it and no it doesnt look like limestone texture maybe sandstone but does have the limestone color.

 

[jamus peek]

I just took a 2nd look at it and no it doesnt look like limestone texture maybe sandstone but does have the limestone color.

Doesn't have sandstone color. It has a blue tinge. Which is reminiscent of blue shist grinded down. Hard heavy bluestone. One which would not be overlooked sitting within 15 ft of a mortar as I only work sites. Especially if the groove was natural which it is not.

here is a pic of another type of blue stone.

worked side of an axe head.

View attachment 1365342

or possibly this type of stone

View attachment 1365343

or this worked side of this large tomahawk blue stone probably not made for use.

View attachment 1365345

Pics are tough for stone items I believe you may notice the work done here on the non show sides.

 

[jamus peek]

I just took a 2nd look at it and no it doesnt look like limestone texture maybe sandstone but does have the limestone color.

This is another type of bluestone we have. A knife. Maybe not recognized as a knife to some. This is a nice one though.

I tried to take the picture so the shadow shows the flaked out portion to create the notch to haft.


View attachment 1365346

View attachment 1365348

 

[mainejman]

When I first posted on here I had skeptics.....not anymore...try posting things that can not be denied...mjm