Help ID Pistol Please.

[SoMdRelicHunter]

Hey guys,
Dug this pistol at the last DIV, mixed in with a bunch of Gardners, Ringtails, and Teardrops. (And a few Confederate buttons although not dug by me but I did get to watch my old man dig a nice little VA cuff) I tried like hell to find the barrel with no luck...I cannot seem to find a match for this anywhere. Checked all the books I have (admittedly not as many on guns as I should have in my arsenal I suppose) Also searched online to no avail...
I really like this piece a ton and would love to figure out what it is. Figured there's no one better at the gift of ID'ing things on the internet than y'all here!
Thanks a lot for your help!!

-JP

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Minelab PRO-FIND 35 Waterproof Pinpointer Metal Detector for Experts with Tone ID & Adjustable Sensitivity - Grab it through Amazon!

[Bigcypresshunter]

I agree, never give up if you feel its not the correct ID. We need to get it right. That last flintlock looks like a good possibility. Did you post it before? I keep thinking the barrel sits on the OP's piece in question but it appears the barrel sits on wood and the trigger guard is attached to the wood underneath, It also has a head knocker knob but no screw hole for the grips. We need someone to dissassemble a flintlock pistol but I dont have one.

Hey Bob how do you change colors?

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Family Maps of Hinds County, Mississippi, Deluxe Edition - Grab it through Amazon!

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Hey Bob how do you change colors?

Big Cy ~

By arrowing down on the big A of the options bar. And then clicking on the color of choice. You can do it with any word and see the results Instantly. You can even revert it back to "automatic" black.


Thanks for the support.


Bob

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Big Cy ~

By arrowing down on the big A of the options bar. And then clicking on the color of choice. You can do it with any word and see the results Instantly. You can even revert it back to "automatic" black.


Thanks for the support.


Bob

Ah OK thanks. A big black "A" for "Text Color" or A for Automatic? . Somehow I missed it and I didnt see the tiny arrow.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Im jumping on the flintlock pistol bandwagon. But the hand grip screw has me puzzled. Are there any fllinlocks with ivory grips?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Incorrect angle ...

View attachment 626848
View attachment 626849

Can you tilt it?

 

[l.cutler]

Well it really can't be a sidelock flintlock like the one pictured. The way the trigger is set up just could not work. Also a flintlock like the one pictured has just a small trigger plate no more than a couple of inches long, if any at all. Some triggers are just pinned into the wood. It really just could not work with any sidelock muzzleloader. It would appear to be from some sort of firearm with a centrally located firing mechanism, not a sidelock. I really can't see it being from a revolver either, Every one I have ever seen had the trigger mounted into the frame, no way it could be fastened to a triggerguard. Another possibility would be to some sort of Civil War era carbine, there were many different types and all sorts of trigger and breech arrangements. There is also the chance that it is much newer, and part of a cartridge type gun, or even some sort of flare gun. Further cleaning may be the only way to get more information on it, but it may be too far rusted for that.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I really can't see it being from a revolver either, Every one I have ever seen had the trigger mounted into the frame, no way it could be fastened to a triggerguard. .

I thought the possibility that the trigger was frozen with the trigger guard in a clump of mud and rust, certainly not fastened to it.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

L.cutler ~

I hear what you're saying 100%. I admit I don't know the difference between a sidelock and a padlock. I'm mainly trying to emphasize my belief that there is a major clue to be found in the angle of the handle portion.

Thanks.

SBB

 

[timekiller]

IMHO,that trigger guard is to cheesy looking to come off any real gun.It just looks like what I would think of as a toy.Rather that would be a cap gun,BB gun,hell I've even seen vintage cross bow triggers that look like that but no real bang bang guns that come to my mind.Couple pics. below to see what I'm saying.

 

[creskol]

This all is out of my league now .... ..... good luck with the ID.

 

[timekiller]

This all is out of my league now .... ..... good luck with the ID.

No need to leave now buddy.
Take Care,
Pete,

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

L.cutler ~

I hear what you're saying 100%. I admit I don't know the difference between a sidelock and a padlock. I'm mainly trying to emphasize my belief that there is a major clue to be found in the angle of the handle portion.

Thanks.

SBB

I was trying to say if you tilt the Colt counterclockwise, the triggerguard angle would be closer to the OPs.

But I just overlayed my Colt trigger guard on the screen and its not the same curve but there are many different revolvers. Hooray we have the "dont know" icon back.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

SoMdRelicHunter ~

I have a simple question for ya ...

Based on your experience and opinion, what are the odds of your dig site being anything other than Civil War era? In other words, did you find evidence of any newer stuff there, say post 1900? I realize just about anything can be dumped anywhere, but based on the testimonies of numerous members on this forum, it seems there are times when they just know for certain when a dig site is old-old and untouched. Is your site like one of those for sure/untouched ones?

Thanks again.

SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Drum roll ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

After careful consideration of all the evidence, including my personal opinion based on research and pictures obtained from the internet, my best guess regarding SoMdRelicHunter's trigger guard, is that it is of European design and origin. I base this primarily on the shape of the handle or grip aspect, which by many accounts is described as European, with England, France, Belgium, and Germany all being possible places of origin.

Below are examples of several European handguns, all of which feature what I call Slant Grips. Unfortunately I do not know the exact dates they were made, other than they range from about the mid 1800s to about the early 1900s. Although inconclusive, there may be a clue related to my claim which hopefully will lead to more clues and eventually to a final and positive identification.


SBB


European handguns with slant grips ... each one by a different maker. The trigger on the rusted relic is in the back position. The others are in their forward positions. I wish I had reduced the relic to the same scale as the others for a better comparison.

 

[SoMdRelicHunter]

Hey Guys!
Sorry again for being absent in my own what's-it discussion. At work since 9:30 this morning. Still here but I just wanted to take a few seconds to express my thoughts and thanks. You guys truly are in a league of your own here. I feel that we are getting very close. I have hesitated to state my opinion on the piece as I do not intend to be like one of those people who ask for help but are so sure of what they have. I prefer to keep an open mind on the matter. However; seeing as how we are getting some pretty close matches here... And to answer this question:

SoMdRelicHunter ~

I have a simple question for ya ...

Based on your experience and opinion, what are the odds of your dig site being anything other than Civil War era? In other words, did you find evidence of any newer stuff there, say post 1900? I realize just about anything can be dumped anywhere, but based on the testimonies of numerous members on this forum, it seems there are times when they just know for certain when a dig site is old-old and untouched. Is your site like one of those for sure/untouched ones?

Thanks again.

SBB

I did not witness anything dug in this section of the farm (not to say there wasn't) that was indicative of a homesite or other area of habitation beyond a civil war camp. Not to say there wasn't. This is and was a working cattle farm. The item in question was found near the boundary line of an adjoining farm of which runs right through a Confederate camp. This was found amongst many Confederate bullets and my Dad found a Virginia cuff button about 30 feet from this. There were also many .36 caliber pistol bullets (Teardrops as they're referred to, also which are considered Confederate). There was Union stuff too a little further down the hill as they occupied the same spaces at different times... All that being said I am of the opinion(though with open mind) that this is a period weapon. In fact, in my mind, European makes sense. I too think it is odd for the trigger sear to come up the middle of the frame for a flintlock, though I have none to compare to. I will say that (other than the design and shape) the mechanism is similar to My and CY's Colt. I am thinking pocket revolver.
All that being said, I am certainly not opposed to any and all ideas and I really just want to know what it is. It doesn't have to turn out to be what I think it is for me to be happy. Just that we know what it is. Sooooo... Was that the right answer? lol It turns out I have one of those midget flintlocks btw. Here's a pic of the two together. The midget is two halves of pressed metal and is hollow in the middle... Just thought I'd post the pic up.
Also, This thing is really quite heftier than it looks in the pictures... I think just based on the heft it isn't a toy.

 

[SoMdRelicHunter]

Wishful thinking, but I am somewhat ignorant on the matter... Perhaps a southern produced item? Could explain the "crude" trigger guard...

 

[SoMdRelicHunter]

Just some I thought were close...

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

SoMdRelicHunter ~

Gracias for the info. Very well said and helpful. I too believe the item is genuine, always did. And to show my appreciation to you and everyone else, here's a link to a website that I guarantee you will enjoy. If not, then I'll give you a full refund with no questions asked.

SBB

Link: New Page 0

 

[davidpitt]

It's really difficult to identify the pistol just from the image you have provided. It needs to be examined carefully.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I think its going to take a true gun expert to solve this, which I'm confident will occur eventually. In the meantime I believe there are three distinctive features to the relic that will identify it ...

1. The slant of the grip portion.
2. The shape of the guard portion. Not round or oval, but more horseshoe shaped.
3. The unusually long (appx 2") barrel portion.


But I suppose only after a good cleaning and the close examination of a true expert will we ever know for certain.

SBB

Remington Single shot pistol. (Drawing)



The relic.


Real Remington.