Info on Turkey (the country)

[reg11756]

Going to Turkey in August to watch my son play volleyball for the USA team. Staying the first week in Izmir on Aegean coast. Any knowledge about md rules there? Best way to get my machine/s there and back safely?

 

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[bzbadger]

Wasn't there something just a couple months ago where an American husband nd wife went to turkey and he picked up a couple rocks from the beach and as they tried to leave country they grabbed him for trying to steal historical items, said they were from old buildings. He went to Turkish jail and wife went home without him and they're fighting for his release. All over a couple stones off the beach. As much as Americans are hated I have no desire to travel and spend money in a country like that

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[Tom_in_CA]

Wasn't there something just a couple months ago where an American husband nd wife went to turkey and he picked up a couple rocks from the beach and as they tried to leave country they grabbed him for trying to steal historical items, said they were from old buildings. He went to Turkish jail and wife went home without him and they're fighting for his release. All over a couple stones off the beach. As much as Americans are hated I have no desire to travel and spend money in a country like that

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bz-badger, if you have the link, please post it.

Oh, and are you aware that so too are there stories of persons getting roughed up here in the USA for picking up stones (or arrow heads or a wheat penny etc...) as well. The horror stories of someone who get his detector and machine confiscated, fined, threatended with jail (heck, perhaps even jailed, I'm sure some story exists!), etc... All right here in the USA.

The reason I am certain of this, is I have often floated the challenge to cite such incidents. When this fear we are all supposed to be ready for of "arrests" etc... get bandied about, I ask "are there any such incidents?" And normally, no one ever has such an incident (barring someone who can't take a warning, or someone night-sneaking sensitive monuments, etc...). HOWEVER, yes indeed a few times there actually HAS been some examples cited for someone who picked up pretty bottle in the Mojave desert, or an arrow head on the canal TVA property, or a wheat penny at some federal site, etc.. While rare, such stories do exist, even here in the USA.

Now I know that your knee-jerk reaction will be to say "... but Turkish jails are worse". But this just goes in a big loop: It assumes that a) it's illegal, and there's no legal way to detect there ever (farmers fields with permission, etc..), and b) you will be arrested for any morphed violation clauses (just as it assumes that anyone here "gets arrested" for going to sandboxes w/o the mayor's permission).

I mean, sure, all those things *could* happen. So too could you be arrested, loose your car and machine, etc... here in the USA.

I guess it's all a matter of caution level and risk assessment. Some people are more cautious, and won't even go "across the tracks" the "bad side of town", lest they get "car-jacked". Other people, who like the tacos served at a particular shop on that "side of the tracks" and don't feel they're in danger (or the risk is so remote) that "they'll chance it". Or another example: The humorous husband /wife scenario where the father lets his little boy run fast, climb trees, etc... Where the mother forbids running, climbing trees, and puts a crash helmet on her little boy "lest he fall down", etc..

At some point, we can all talk ourselves into any fear. I mean, sure, a 747 might fall on my house tomorrow. Sure, I might get arrested in Turkey (even after I've studied the laws which don't forbid it in xyz situation), and sure, I might get arrested here in the USA for hunting a sandbox. At some point, yes I agree that all those things *could* happen. But heck, at which point do I cower in my house and never go out?

 

[Ism]

bz-badger, if you have the link, please post it.

Oh, and are you aware that so too are there stories of persons getting roughed up here in the USA for picking up stones (or arrow heads or a wheat penny etc...) as well. The horror stories of someone who get his detector and machine confiscated, fined, threatended with jail (heck, perhaps even jailed, I'm sure some story exists!), etc... All right here in the USA.

Goes both ways Tom, please post the link.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Goes both ways Tom, please post the link.

what? I'm not the one saying such a thing happened (nor am I disputing it, as I'm sure people can get "roughed up" anywhere, for even having a tail-light out on their car). I wondered to see the link though, to know whether there's "more to the story". Not to say "it never happened". I don't doubt it could have happened. So too has all sorts of evil befallen md'rs in any country of the world (even friendly ones like Britain and the USA which ... historically ... are seen as relaxed and such).

Hope that clarifies

 

[U.K. Brian]

Tom is quite right for once. You can detect anywhere in the world including the lawn in front of the White House....if your certain your not going to be caught.

 

[Mackaydon]

UK Brian: That same logic must then apply to druggies: Do it anywhere if you're certain you're not going to be caught. Is that the current attitude of our youth?
Don.......

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... You can detect anywhere in the world ....if your certain your not going to be caught.

"If you're not going to be caught"? You know what's funny about that statement Brian? It assumes your own point of the debate, to begin with. I mean, to say "don't get caught" ASSUMES that it is wrong, to start with. But wait, isn't that what is being discussed here, in the first place? Whether or not there's laws forbidding it? Thus your statement merely presumes your own view from the start.

Because, yeah, if it's illegal, then sure, by all means, don't do it. But if it's not illegal, then what's there to be "caught" for? Just do it within the perameters of the law there (like those locals who are buying machines to ... uh ... presumably "use"), and presto, what's there to be "caught" for? No different than the USA: places you can detect here (schools, parks, beaches, forests), and places you can't (white house lawn, shiloh, ghettysburg, etc..).

 

[LM]

"If you're not going to be caught"? You know what's funny about that statement Brian? It assumes your own point of the debate, to begin with. I mean, to say "don't get caught" ASSUMES that it is wrong, to start with. But wait, isn't that what is being discussed here, in the first place? Whether or not there's laws forbidding it? Thus your statement merely presumes your own view from the start.

Because, yeah, if it's illegal, then sure, by all means, don't do it. But if it's not illegal, then what's there to be "caught" for? Just do it within the perameters of the law there (like those locals who are buying machines to ... uh ... presumably "use"), and presto, what's there to be "caught" for? No different than the USA: places you can detect here (schools, parks, beaches, forests), and places you can't (white house lawn, shiloh, ghettysburg, etc..).

I just can't let this keep sliding.

You seem to have some sort of enormous issue about 'do as thout will', probably stemming from being given shitty information by some bureaucrat. Its frustrating, I know. If you've never acted as an owner-builder of a house, try it sometime. You have to become a quasi-lawyer just to deal with precisely that... I also relate to the idea of people impulsively assuming things are illegal when they aren't. As a former firearms enthusiast who enjoyed all manner of 'scary looking' guns, I've experienced that specific breed of ignorance on many occasions.

I understand that frustration but you need to understand that no matter how long your encyclicals are, no matter what sort of elaborate rationale you've developed in your mind, the inherent logic of your position is precisely the sort of thing that people *think* will get them out of a pickle but ultimately, lands them in trouble. Normally not *that* big a deal, but when the words Turkish+Prison are in play, don't you think the stakes are high enough to take it further than bleating idealism and actually learn the truth?

I don't speak Turkish, I'm guessing you don't either. On this basis, we can conclude that neither of us are competent enough to interpret Turkish law as a Turkish lawyer might. Still, either of us can go to the internet and type in things such as "metal detecting in Turkey" or "Turkish Antiquities Laws" and find all manner of anecdotes and empirical information that suggests, at the very least, the issue warrants considerable further examination.

Your position is basically "JUST GO OVER THERE THE BUREAUCRATS KNOW NOTHING I WILL DO WHATEVER I WANT" which, given the circumstances of this situation and the anecdotal evidence we have at hand, is just mind-boggingly stupid. It begs the question, is your hang-up over arbitrary gestures of authority so deep and disjointing that you find yourself losing track of reality?

It just amazes me that someone who is at least prosperous enough to own a computer and pay for internet service could possibly be presented with these set of circumstances and conclude as you have. It's incredible to me.

So unless I personally see an actual rule that says "no metal detectors", I will detect.

I always wondered just who they were speaking to when they put warning labels on shampoo telling people not to drink it. I guess I've finally encountered that man.

 

[U.K. Brian]

Tom was a twit, he's now a big twit as he becomes more dangerous. He sold a detector to someone in Spain (where there are regulations against detecting in some areas) and that has become his reason to say you can detect anywhere in the world. Now didn't the buyer say that your O.K. if not seen ?
I gave up on this forum as I was spending to many hours posting up links to people who had either had their detectors confiscated, been fined or even enjoyed a time in prison (or a combination of all three). Very nice people in Turkey but you don't want to get arrested.

Its a sad case of been nowhere, found little, having nothing useful to talk about but desperate to see his name up in print.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Brian and LM, I've said over and over again that: If there are really laws that say you can't detect a certain area, "then by all means, obey it". So the issue here is .... is there really a law there saying you can't detect anywhere, under any circumstance, at any time? OR ISN'T there? It's not about sneaking around, or breaking laws. It's about looking them up for oneself.

Or how about this: going by "actual practice". What I mean by that is: Have you ever seen some threads where someone asks something like this: "Hi, I'll be going to such and such beach (or city, or park, or whatever), and want to know if it's legal to detect there?" And in response, persons from that local (or who have been there and hunted) might chime in and say "sure, come enjoy it, we hunt there all the time" or "sure, come have a ball, that's right across the street from me, and our club hunts there 24x7 w/no problems", etc... And you'll notice if answers like that are floated, that the persons reading can seem to infer "ok gee then, I guess it's ok". BUT WAIT, did you notice that the persons answering the question did not cite any laws (or silences of the law) to back up their answer? They merely said "it's no problem".

Example: A fellow here in CA inquired about a certain private college campus in north central CA. He wanted to know if it was ok to hunt there (this campus has sprawling acreage and lots of of grassy undeveloped tree-laden perimeters). Right away someone from another part of CA answered the post first by saying "you better not, as it's a private campus, so campus security might lock you up and throw the key away, better to go ask the provost, blah blah". However, right after this dire warning, several others who are from right in the vicinity came on to say "sure, have a ball, we've hunted there for years. It's an open campus. No one cares" etc... (and posted pix of finds made there over the years, etc...). A funny thing then happened next;: The first person (who said you need to go ask), changed his tune and came back on the thread. He says "oh ... I guess it's ok then". Do you see how human nature works with the information that "everyone's detecting there". Thus the next person naturally assumes "oh, it must be ok then". But notice that no one has said "I went and asked the provost and he said ok".

I'M NOT SAYING THAT'S THE CASE IN TURKEY, perhaps there really IS a law. So too are there laws in the USA and elsewhere too about places you can't go. But just saying, that sometimes "actual practice" seems to rule over even the most timid md'rs, rather than "actual law". Another example: I have no doubt that if you went to Sacramento and asked enough archies: "can I detect state of CA beaches?", you find one to tell you "no". In fact, they can probably cite scary verbage and penalties (morphed from cultural heritage wording, etc...). However, oddly, you can detect state-of-CA beaches here till you're blue in the face, and no one cares.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT THE SAME AUTOMATICALLY APPLIES TO TURKEY. Perhaps things are really applied. But just saying that if someone thinks that simply having "cultural heritage" verbage automatically disallows md'ing, then .... it's then about time to cut off most of the USA too, where detecting is common place (yet if you'd dug deep enough, and given enough wrangling, can make a whole host of things apply to yourself).

So that brings us back to the dealer there. Where are those guys detecting? Why can't anyone answer that? Do you guys REALLY believe they're using them for industrial purposes, and not hobby purposes? Then what's so hard about merely finding out where those locals hunt, and hunt along side of them?

 

[FloridaHunter]

Please don't try it. You can't even detect in America without drawing major attention. This is a recipe for disaster. And say you do find something valuable? I'm sure the locals wont mind you toting off the gold, silver, and other historic items you dug up while on vacation. I do not think you will enjoy it when you realize you were followed back to your hotel room after you were seen digging up items. DO NOT put you and your family in danger. Bad bad bad bad bad idea.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

N/T. Accidental double post .

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... This is a recipe for disaster.....

Floridan hunter, did you see the part where there's actually dealers there (well, at least one as you can see in the pix I posted, if not others in major cities there). Then, if it's a "recipe for disaster", who are those dealers selling their machines to, and for what purpose ?

 

[FloridaHunter]

Well, people are free to do what they like. But you are seriously going to advocate an American going to metal detect with his son in Turkey? This is a bad idea on many levels. It could easily turn into a dangerous situation, made even worse if you do find something of value. I'm sure they love rich Americans over there stealing their precious artifacts. I'm sure if he does get into trouble he can tell the thugs roughing him up that he got the ok from this internet site and all will be well.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Well, people are free to do what they like. But you are seriously going to advocate an American going to metal detect with his son in Turkey? This is a bad idea on many levels. It could easily turn into a dangerous situation, made even worse if you do find something of value. I'm sure they love rich Americans over there stealing their precious artifacts. I'm sure if he does get into trouble he can tell the thugs roughing him up that he got the ok from this internet site and all will be well.

Hmm, ok then, how about this: How about a guy from Turkey coming to md in the United States? I suppose he could look ahead at the laws here (arpa, various state laws, and ask enough archies), and he too might come away with the same sage advice: Even though there's md'rs there in the USA who appear to be md'ing somewhere (and even dealers in the USA), that ... it's a bad idea on many levels. Thus he leaves the detector back home in Turkey, when travelling to the USA.

I mean, I wonder what would happen if that Turkish person asked a consolate here in the USA: "Hi, is it ok if I export precious USA artifacts back to my home country of Turkey?" what would the USA consolate say? He'd probably conjur up images of the mel fisher legal hassles (ie.: "who owned the gold bars?") and tell the Turkish tourist "no".

 

[FloridaHunter]

I'm just saying I believe it is very risky and I would never do it. If someone is ok with that risk, then go for it. Me? Never.

 

[RotZorn]

I just got off the phone with this guy... And he wanted me to tell all you bible thumping American pigs ........" if you dare bring a detector into his motherland to rob his people of their valuables, that your equipment will be set afire by the power of Allah, and you will be executed without trail"......

Ok back to reality in 2013, Turkey is one of the FOUNDING MEMBERS OF THE UNITED NATIONS! Stop freaking out because its close to Iraq. They are a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC for crying out loud.

They also joined the European Union if I remember correctly- or were in talks about it with Britain at one time- not long ago, maybe like 3-4 years ago? I haven't looked but I bet it's a done deal by now?!?!

Yes, I realize they are a population that is mostly Islamic, but there are different denominations of Islam just as there are different forms of Christianity- not all of the population of Turkey hates you because you are American, I say this with confidence - And no, I've never been there. But I've met MANY, MANY, people from many, many different countries (several Islamic) and I'm just going to take a wild guess and say.....

If they disliked us soooo badly they wouldn't immigrate here and get jobs as your attorney, waiter, loan officer, policeman.....you name it, and be of service to all of us "infidels".

None of this has a thing to do with laws pertaining to detecting, but I think a lot of people who have chimed in here are assuming the worst about the country itself- and basing a lot of comments with that in mind. YES IM SURE THE JAILS OR PRISONS ARE BAD.....probably the same as here- where you go to serve a 3 year sentence but get gang raped by 5 guys who all have AIDS.

Prison is BAD everywhere. Not just in Turkey. Whatever bad fears you have about prison, if you imagine the worst, I can promise you something similar has probably happened at the pens here in the good ole USA.

I would say if you want to detect there, do some research first, but I doubt they will maim you and set you on fire for just asking about it. If they have laws against it then so be it. Maybe they do, but some of you guys see the word Islam and just automatically assume the worst right of the top?!?!?

Ridiculous.

 

[dirtfisher23]

I visited Turkey several years back, before I got into MDing.
I would imagine if you stayed on the beaches you'll have no problems. As
for communicating with the farmers for permission, you better have a
translator because not that many people in the country side speak English.
If you DID did find anything really valuable, even a couple ancient gold or silver
coins, consider how your going to get it out of the country.

English IS spoken widely in the cities, so if you did find something
valuable, you might be able to strike a deal with a shop owner to buy it
from you, then convert the proceeds back into American money...or pay
him to ship it to your home address as "tourist junk" but that is risky
and against the law.

 

[M Scott @ FTP]

Metal detecting is illegal in lots of countries throughout the world but they still buy and sell detectors.
I visited my Fisher/Teknetics distributor in Turkey last year and did training for dealers throughout the country. As always I wanted to do some detecting with them but none would take me because its so illegal with severe punishments…..despite this most of them they still do it.
Some countries all detecting is restricted but they still buy and sell legally, some countries its only legal on private land, some only beaches, some only meteorite and gold nugget detecting is allowed and hunters look for other items under the ruse of ‘meteorite’ hunting. Some just detect under the guise of planted or seeded hunt competitions like the rally I will go to in Czech next month after a rally in Hungary and then visit Macedonia, Bulgaria and then UK for another rally on an 18 day trip.

Hope this helps.

Mike

 

[aarthrj3811]

Gee guys...I was working with a guy from Syria a few years ago... His wife sent me an E-mail and told me he had been caught..No head...Now I ask a lot more questions...Art