Dirty Dutchman
Sr. Member
Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
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Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
- Thread starter Dirty Dutchman
- Start date
cactusjumper
Gold Member
Re: Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
Travis,
On Dec. 27, 2010 you wrote this:
Hello All,
"I am new to forums as well as to researching the Dutchman Mine. I have been reading on The Lost Dutchman Mine for about two months and my studies have included the "Bible" by Corbin and two books by T.E. Glover. I have also taken a few trips horseback to get more familiar with the mountains. They are magnificent as well as treacherous."
That suggests that, as of today, you have been researching the LDM for around 90 days. Please correct me if my math is off. It's hard to believe that, working alone, you have made all these connections and formed these opinions in such a short time.
You are a prime example why I am always suspicious of "newbies" who start their posts with "I am new to forums as well as to researching the Dutchman Mine. I have been reading on The Lost Dutchman Mine for about two months and my studies have included the "Bible" by Corbin and two books by T.E. Glover."
Within a month or so, they are usually schooling the old timers about the various legends and stories of the LDM and the Superstition Mountains. Not saying, for sure, this applies to you......just saying. Jim seems to have a familiarity with you. Is he your mentor?
Despite what I have just written, I am impressed with some/most of your conclusions. Please continue.
Nice post!
Take care,
Joe
Travis,
On Dec. 27, 2010 you wrote this:
Hello All,
"I am new to forums as well as to researching the Dutchman Mine. I have been reading on The Lost Dutchman Mine for about two months and my studies have included the "Bible" by Corbin and two books by T.E. Glover. I have also taken a few trips horseback to get more familiar with the mountains. They are magnificent as well as treacherous."
That suggests that, as of today, you have been researching the LDM for around 90 days. Please correct me if my math is off. It's hard to believe that, working alone, you have made all these connections and formed these opinions in such a short time.
You are a prime example why I am always suspicious of "newbies" who start their posts with "I am new to forums as well as to researching the Dutchman Mine. I have been reading on The Lost Dutchman Mine for about two months and my studies have included the "Bible" by Corbin and two books by T.E. Glover."
Within a month or so, they are usually schooling the old timers about the various legends and stories of the LDM and the Superstition Mountains. Not saying, for sure, this applies to you......just saying. Jim seems to have a familiarity with you. Is he your mentor?
Despite what I have just written, I am impressed with some/most of your conclusions. Please continue.
Nice post!
Take care,
Joe
Re: Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
Travis,
Good post, you seem to be on an investigative roll here so let throw a couple of things at you.
What was the source for the story of the of the gold under his bed ? wasn't it just Holmes? have you ever wondered why Gideon Roberts didn't get any of the gold from the candle box? did anyone "Bark" ever interview Holmes or Roberts?. Do you think their really ever was any gold under his bed?. Maybe the gold was just the last of his stash that he had high graded from his previous jobs. The man spent his last years in abject poverty, selling eggs to get by and just trying to stretch out the last of his "candle box stash" for as long as possible because god knows their was no social security. The whole LDM story really has no facts except that Jacob Waltz did live and die, it amazes me how many books have come out from so little factual information, while Bark was closest to the original sources even his words are now suspect. All these years, all these maps and no gold....at least none made public. Have you looked much in Bicknell and who his sources were? what was driving him?
Anyway keep it up.
Bill
Travis,
Good post, you seem to be on an investigative roll here so let throw a couple of things at you.
What was the source for the story of the of the gold under his bed ? wasn't it just Holmes? have you ever wondered why Gideon Roberts didn't get any of the gold from the candle box? did anyone "Bark" ever interview Holmes or Roberts?. Do you think their really ever was any gold under his bed?. Maybe the gold was just the last of his stash that he had high graded from his previous jobs. The man spent his last years in abject poverty, selling eggs to get by and just trying to stretch out the last of his "candle box stash" for as long as possible because god knows their was no social security. The whole LDM story really has no facts except that Jacob Waltz did live and die, it amazes me how many books have come out from so little factual information, while Bark was closest to the original sources even his words are now suspect. All these years, all these maps and no gold....at least none made public. Have you looked much in Bicknell and who his sources were? what was driving him?
Anyway keep it up.
Bill
cactusjumper
Gold Member
Re: Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
Travis,
My post was meant to be "caution", not "accusation".
"Not saying, for sure, this applies to you......just saying.........."Despite what I have just written, I am impressed with some/most of your conclusions. Please continue.
Nice post!"
I accept everything you have written as the truth. I have not forgotten what first brought us together, and I'm glad that I could help you along towards Waltz not being a "killer".
If there is anything I can provide, history wise, to help you in your research and search, just ask.
Good luck!
Joe
Travis,
My post was meant to be "caution", not "accusation".
"Not saying, for sure, this applies to you......just saying.........."Despite what I have just written, I am impressed with some/most of your conclusions. Please continue.
Nice post!"
I accept everything you have written as the truth. I have not forgotten what first brought us together, and I'm glad that I could help you along towards Waltz not being a "killer".
If there is anything I can provide, history wise, to help you in your research and search, just ask.
Good luck!
Joe
Blindbowman
Bronze Member
- Aug 15, 2007
- 2,042
- 978
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
Re: Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
calling charter members names wont get you very far here ...maybe where your from thats ok .. i dont think so .. dont worry i can show my self the way out .. i am puting you on ignore ...lol
calling charter members names wont get you very far here ...maybe where your from thats ok .. i dont think so .. dont worry i can show my self the way out .. i am puting you on ignore ...lol
cactusjumper
Gold Member
Re: Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
Travis,
There has to be a reason why Brownie denied writing that manuscript, right up to the time of his death. My theory is that, while he may have had some involvement, a ghostwriter added so much B.S., that Brownie realized that most Dutch Hunters would laugh at the story.
The deathbed confession is one of those things that seem incredulous.
I will stick with Jim Bark's Notes. I assume you have a copy of those. He actually knew Waltz and had spoken to him.....casually. He interviewed both Julia and Rhiney as well as some of those who came along later. I have my doubts about any "facts" attributed to Dick Holmes, especially if they came through a manuscript that Brownie denied writing.
Ely wrote that Bark was so angered by the person who stole Waltz's gold from under his deathbed, that he would not mention the man's name......ever. We all, pretty much, know that man to be Dick Holmes. I can't imagine he told Brownie what actually happened, so he made up the story about Waltz giving it to him. That story would not float with the police of today.
Plenty of grist for the mill once you start down that trail.
Good luck,
Joe
Travis,
There has to be a reason why Brownie denied writing that manuscript, right up to the time of his death. My theory is that, while he may have had some involvement, a ghostwriter added so much B.S., that Brownie realized that most Dutch Hunters would laugh at the story.
The deathbed confession is one of those things that seem incredulous.
I will stick with Jim Bark's Notes. I assume you have a copy of those. He actually knew Waltz and had spoken to him.....casually. He interviewed both Julia and Rhiney as well as some of those who came along later. I have my doubts about any "facts" attributed to Dick Holmes, especially if they came through a manuscript that Brownie denied writing.
Ely wrote that Bark was so angered by the person who stole Waltz's gold from under his deathbed, that he would not mention the man's name......ever. We all, pretty much, know that man to be Dick Holmes. I can't imagine he told Brownie what actually happened, so he made up the story about Waltz giving it to him. That story would not float with the police of today.
Plenty of grist for the mill once you start down that trail.
Good luck,
Joe
Blindbowman
Bronze Member
- Aug 15, 2007
- 2,042
- 978
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
Re: Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
"That story would not float with the police of today."
very true but were are talking about today are we ..?
we can set here and debate what took place and why .. but the truth always wins over in the end ..logic and the truth share a common thread ..
we never know what was said or why ..
till someone steps up and says . here is the real LDM and this is the truth and the logic we never knew before ..
and i do agree joe .. barks notes are interesting to say the lest .
i hope to meet you some day joe and get a chance to talk beyond the keys ..
just saying that reminds me of a old friend i once knew .. maybe i will be long dead and gone before i ever get the chance ... lol
see i think Holmes put the sivler dollar on the location to mark the area . but he as Waltz could never locate the mine it self .. they knew the basic area , but not the true location it self ..i carried that silver dollar for more then 10 years now ... it maybe the only money dick holmes ever gave away ...lol
it could have fallen out of the mans pocket in 1959 ...who knows ...?
one fact remains true .. this is my last expedition .. if i can still make it ...
cactusjumper said:
"That story would not float with the police of today."
very true but were are talking about today are we ..?
we can set here and debate what took place and why .. but the truth always wins over in the end ..logic and the truth share a common thread ..
we never know what was said or why ..
till someone steps up and says . here is the real LDM and this is the truth and the logic we never knew before ..
and i do agree joe .. barks notes are interesting to say the lest .
i hope to meet you some day joe and get a chance to talk beyond the keys ..
just saying that reminds me of a old friend i once knew .. maybe i will be long dead and gone before i ever get the chance ... lol
see i think Holmes put the sivler dollar on the location to mark the area . but he as Waltz could never locate the mine it self .. they knew the basic area , but not the true location it self ..i carried that silver dollar for more then 10 years now ... it maybe the only money dick holmes ever gave away ...lol
it could have fallen out of the mans pocket in 1959 ...who knows ...?
one fact remains true .. this is my last expedition .. if i can still make it ...
cactusjumper
Gold Member
Re: Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
Travis,
All fights are left outside the gate at the Rendezvous. It's how it was in the old days, and a rule I established at our first Rendezvous. Best to put those kinds of fighting words aside early on.
If Bob comes to the Rendezvous, he will be welcome in our camp and will be treated no different than any other participant. I believe that will be the case even if I'm not there.
Everyone is welcome.......except those who come looking for a fight.
Take care,
Joe
Travis,
All fights are left outside the gate at the Rendezvous. It's how it was in the old days, and a rule I established at our first Rendezvous. Best to put those kinds of fighting words aside early on.
If Bob comes to the Rendezvous, he will be welcome in our camp and will be treated no different than any other participant. I believe that will be the case even if I'm not there.
Everyone is welcome.......except those who come looking for a fight.
Take care,
Joe
Blindbowman
Bronze Member
- Aug 15, 2007
- 2,042
- 978
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
Re: Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
i am not shocked ,those are sound rules and my fighting days are over..i have one last chance to prove i am right and collect photos and evidence to prove it .. if i can get back to my sites .. i do in fact belkeive it will prove it is the LDM
/ Ma mine ..
i never dreamed i would really find it .. i tryed so hard to beleive in what my father had told be and ,he was right again ..
my father was paning gold in calf, in the med 50's and early 60's before it became the thrill seekers day out ...
joe i dont take this expedition as a joke .. i have 5 familiy members left and all 5 of them are sick .. one with cancer . 3 with hbad hearts , and my mother is getting old and can no longer get around like she did in the past ..
why i was looking for a lost gold mine .. i lost the time i could have had with them .. i can not get that back its a price i have already paid ...
i have no idea if i will even have a computer to type on at the end of this .. but one thing you can count on .. i am not going to walk away till i know one way or the other if this mine i found is the real LDM / Ma ...if i can not aford to go to the redenous . i would hope to get a chance to talk to you any way ..
i have mist out on a lot of people i would have like to talk to . but i live a long way off and i have put almost every time i could in to my search ..
i dont care if anyone else beleives this mine is the LDM .. i wont know till the rope is tight and i am collection samples in the mine shaft it self ...
i will stand by what i have said .. it would only take 5 mins .. and i can prove it to anyone ...
i am going to get a clean fresh map and i will save that map just to show you .. i am as good as i say i am .. the proff is a matter of the lines on a map and who puts them there and why ...
i have spent my life with a artist eye and other then being blinded for a few years .. i still messure land and DR tracking by eye sight .. am i am the best at it , i have ever known .....
i am sorry i just dont think the way the modern world culture dose .. in this case it was a gift ...
i see the past layed out on the ground and area around me as i walk .. my sense drink in the world and nature around me .. to most a plasitic or a gum wrapper tills them someone has been there . ot me its very diffrent .. the hidden edges of a old trail . the logic of the path that flows threw the mts the brush that grows over it threw the years that past one by ione creating layer apone layer of over growth .. each layer to its own ..
those that came and went in their day .. those that still may ...
but one thing is clear above all this .. is a dry coffie is always in need of its best friend ...
i fully apologize to you old friend .. i fell into your world and few under stand who and what i am .. dont worry i will soon fall out ...if i am gone .. and the only thing those that knew of me . can say is . " now there was one crazy old Dutchhunter .. " then i really do get the last laugh, its true .. i may be a be crazy and old
and i am part dutch , but i am no longer a dutchhunter .. !
cactusjumper said:
i am not shocked ,those are sound rules and my fighting days are over..i have one last chance to prove i am right and collect photos and evidence to prove it .. if i can get back to my sites .. i do in fact belkeive it will prove it is the LDM
/ Ma mine ..
i never dreamed i would really find it .. i tryed so hard to beleive in what my father had told be and ,he was right again ..
my father was paning gold in calf, in the med 50's and early 60's before it became the thrill seekers day out ...
joe i dont take this expedition as a joke .. i have 5 familiy members left and all 5 of them are sick .. one with cancer . 3 with hbad hearts , and my mother is getting old and can no longer get around like she did in the past ..
why i was looking for a lost gold mine .. i lost the time i could have had with them .. i can not get that back its a price i have already paid ...
i have no idea if i will even have a computer to type on at the end of this .. but one thing you can count on .. i am not going to walk away till i know one way or the other if this mine i found is the real LDM / Ma ...if i can not aford to go to the redenous . i would hope to get a chance to talk to you any way ..
i have mist out on a lot of people i would have like to talk to . but i live a long way off and i have put almost every time i could in to my search ..
i dont care if anyone else beleives this mine is the LDM .. i wont know till the rope is tight and i am collection samples in the mine shaft it self ...
i will stand by what i have said .. it would only take 5 mins .. and i can prove it to anyone ...
i am going to get a clean fresh map and i will save that map just to show you .. i am as good as i say i am .. the proff is a matter of the lines on a map and who puts them there and why ...
i have spent my life with a artist eye and other then being blinded for a few years .. i still messure land and DR tracking by eye sight .. am i am the best at it , i have ever known .....
i am sorry i just dont think the way the modern world culture dose .. in this case it was a gift ...
i see the past layed out on the ground and area around me as i walk .. my sense drink in the world and nature around me .. to most a plasitic or a gum wrapper tills them someone has been there . ot me its very diffrent .. the hidden edges of a old trail . the logic of the path that flows threw the mts the brush that grows over it threw the years that past one by ione creating layer apone layer of over growth .. each layer to its own ..
those that came and went in their day .. those that still may ...
but one thing is clear above all this .. is a dry coffie is always in need of its best friend ...
i fully apologize to you old friend .. i fell into your world and few under stand who and what i am .. dont worry i will soon fall out ...if i am gone .. and the only thing those that knew of me . can say is . " now there was one crazy old Dutchhunter .. " then i really do get the last laugh, its true .. i may be a be crazy and old
and i am part dutch , but i am no longer a dutchhunter .. !
Blindbowman
Bronze Member
- Aug 15, 2007
- 2,042
- 978
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
Re: Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
dirty dutchman
the post you started was in good taste and went off track as the topic got heated .. i Apologize for my part in the debate getting off track ..
your a smart man but sorry you really dont know me at all .. and i dont know you and most likely never will .. the piont is .. debate is a conflect waiting to happen . its up to the people to deside the lemits and guide lines of a debate .. but it dose not mean the topic needs a debate at all .. searching for clues where few are left behind is a art in it self ... you may not under stand me or my logic and reasoning .. but you only know what i am willing to share here in the open topic .. thats very little .. and i would be glad to set and talk with you at the redenous ...
i am not here to create conflects .. i am here because i was willing to puut my money where my mouth is . i am now invested over $42,000. and it will soon be over $49 ,000. i will not go over $50,000.
i have given my word to others that my research will end at that dead line .. i have give my time my life and my soul to my research
i lost count long ago how many nights i have research till the sun rises the next morning .. i dont remember if i splep the night before or after ...
i have been injured 3 times in those mts .. once almost cost me my life . i would do it again today if i could ,
even if no one else under stands why ...
if i could tell anyone of one thing that would help you in your search .. it would be simple.. and to the point ..
beyond that car or truck door beyond the parking lot .. beyond sight of the every day world we all live in .. is a place were god created everything .. even us even if we dont remember it ...dose it matter if you find what your looking for .. dose it really matter . if you dont find it dozens will come after you and look just as hard as you do .. will they find it .. good question .. but the fact is .. its up to you to do the best you can .. and even if you think some one is being crazy or foolish or phoney wont change that ...
i have found a old mine and yes i can and will do everything i can to prove or disprove what mine this is and if it is the LDM ..
ido i like the risk and danger i face .. no ... my familiy fears for my return each time i have gone .. i walked around out there as if i was in my own back yard .. but i dont have mt lion tracks in my back yard or 200 ft strainght drops or old mine shafts ..
you want to know something dirty D .. i have told only about 20% of what i really know about the mine i found and the translation of the stones ... i really was not joke when i told joe . i could prove it was the LDM /ma in 5 mins ..
if you want to search for the lost dutchman .. go ahead my searching days are almost over ..i will post my expedition findings here on the sight when i am done
then its up to you , no conflects .. no debates .. it is or it ant its that simple .. but will it change how much i have done to get where i am .. no it wont ...
see i know what Waltz felt like looking in that mine . and it tells the whole story .. it is something i can not explain .. with words .. you have one eye on the greatest thing you have ever seen in your life time and the other eye looking over your back for hungery cats and even worse .. greedy humans ....
its not much to look at . just a short shaft whole ... , but when you look at it .. you know and feel this is not like the rest .. its diffrent . its something god touched for some reason he created it this way .. and there is no question what so ever what it is when your looking at it ...
do i really have to end up dead to prove i am not a phoney .. will that make it worth it ..?..
i am risking everything i own to get back there one time just to see if i am right ....
untill you and anyone else is willing to to take it to the next level .. you wont under stand why .....you can learn a lot from just setting on a mt and looking around .. thinking about where you are and why . and how you got there is a matter of who you are .....
stay safe stay free
dirty dutchman
the post you started was in good taste and went off track as the topic got heated .. i Apologize for my part in the debate getting off track ..
your a smart man but sorry you really dont know me at all .. and i dont know you and most likely never will .. the piont is .. debate is a conflect waiting to happen . its up to the people to deside the lemits and guide lines of a debate .. but it dose not mean the topic needs a debate at all .. searching for clues where few are left behind is a art in it self ... you may not under stand me or my logic and reasoning .. but you only know what i am willing to share here in the open topic .. thats very little .. and i would be glad to set and talk with you at the redenous ...
i am not here to create conflects .. i am here because i was willing to puut my money where my mouth is . i am now invested over $42,000. and it will soon be over $49 ,000. i will not go over $50,000.
i have given my word to others that my research will end at that dead line .. i have give my time my life and my soul to my research
i lost count long ago how many nights i have research till the sun rises the next morning .. i dont remember if i splep the night before or after ...
i have been injured 3 times in those mts .. once almost cost me my life . i would do it again today if i could ,
even if no one else under stands why ...
if i could tell anyone of one thing that would help you in your search .. it would be simple.. and to the point ..
beyond that car or truck door beyond the parking lot .. beyond sight of the every day world we all live in .. is a place were god created everything .. even us even if we dont remember it ...dose it matter if you find what your looking for .. dose it really matter . if you dont find it dozens will come after you and look just as hard as you do .. will they find it .. good question .. but the fact is .. its up to you to do the best you can .. and even if you think some one is being crazy or foolish or phoney wont change that ...
i have found a old mine and yes i can and will do everything i can to prove or disprove what mine this is and if it is the LDM ..
ido i like the risk and danger i face .. no ... my familiy fears for my return each time i have gone .. i walked around out there as if i was in my own back yard .. but i dont have mt lion tracks in my back yard or 200 ft strainght drops or old mine shafts ..
you want to know something dirty D .. i have told only about 20% of what i really know about the mine i found and the translation of the stones ... i really was not joke when i told joe . i could prove it was the LDM /ma in 5 mins ..
if you want to search for the lost dutchman .. go ahead my searching days are almost over ..i will post my expedition findings here on the sight when i am done
then its up to you , no conflects .. no debates .. it is or it ant its that simple .. but will it change how much i have done to get where i am .. no it wont ...
see i know what Waltz felt like looking in that mine . and it tells the whole story .. it is something i can not explain .. with words .. you have one eye on the greatest thing you have ever seen in your life time and the other eye looking over your back for hungery cats and even worse .. greedy humans ....
its not much to look at . just a short shaft whole ... , but when you look at it .. you know and feel this is not like the rest .. its diffrent . its something god touched for some reason he created it this way .. and there is no question what so ever what it is when your looking at it ...
do i really have to end up dead to prove i am not a phoney .. will that make it worth it ..?..
i am risking everything i own to get back there one time just to see if i am right ....
untill you and anyone else is willing to to take it to the next level .. you wont under stand why .....you can learn a lot from just setting on a mt and looking around .. thinking about where you are and why . and how you got there is a matter of who you are .....
stay safe stay free
Tuberale
Gold Member
Re: Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
Newbie to this thread.
I've been working too long a my cross-reference index, kind of put-aside since 1982 or so.
My research indicates Jacob Waltz was also known, at least in some references, as Jacob Waltzer. There. I've said it.
I've never seriously hunted this "mine" because I don't believe the mine should have been called "Dutchman" in the first-place. Yes, I understand the history, as well as anyone who has a background in research does. I agree Dutchman Mine should be cross-referenced to Jacob Waltz(er) for that reason.
That said, does anyone else have specific references where Jacob Waltz was also referred to as Jacob Waltzer, and why?
Newbie to this thread.
I've been working too long a my cross-reference index, kind of put-aside since 1982 or so.
My research indicates Jacob Waltz was also known, at least in some references, as Jacob Waltzer. There. I've said it.
I've never seriously hunted this "mine" because I don't believe the mine should have been called "Dutchman" in the first-place. Yes, I understand the history, as well as anyone who has a background in research does. I agree Dutchman Mine should be cross-referenced to Jacob Waltz(er) for that reason.
That said, does anyone else have specific references where Jacob Waltz was also referred to as Jacob Waltzer, and why?
cactusjumper
Gold Member
Re: Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
Tuberale,
There are many official documents that confirm that the Dutchman's name was Jacob Waltz. Waltzer was popular with a few writers of fiction in the earlier years. I doubt anyone really knows where that came from.
When I get home I will go through my older books and try to figure out when Waltzer was first used.
Joe Ribaudo
Tuberale,
There are many official documents that confirm that the Dutchman's name was Jacob Waltz. Waltzer was popular with a few writers of fiction in the earlier years. I doubt anyone really knows where that came from.
When I get home I will go through my older books and try to figure out when Waltzer was first used.
Joe Ribaudo
Cubfan64
Silver Member
- Feb 13, 2006
- 2,986
- 2,790
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Re: Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
There are several people who come to mind who claimed his real name was Waltzer. One I believe was Hermann Petrasch, one of the earliest searchers for the mine after Jacob died. I know there are at least a couple authors who suggest Waltzer was his real name - I don't have notes in front of me, but I think Barney Barnard and perhaps Milton Rose are two of the ones who suggested that. I'll see if I can dig up some information tonight to be more specific.
Since you brought up the subject, what sources have you run across that reference him as Waltzer?
As far as I know, all the documents signed by him that are in existence including signatures on a letter or two and legel recorded documents (I believe including his citizenship documentation) all appear to be WALTZ and not Waltzer. In addition, Sims Ely who wrote about the Lost Dutchman mine and who interviewed Julia Thomas who knew Waltz in person, referred to him as Waltz - as did Jim Bark who was also supposedly an aquaintence of the man.
Tuberale said:
There are several people who come to mind who claimed his real name was Waltzer. One I believe was Hermann Petrasch, one of the earliest searchers for the mine after Jacob died. I know there are at least a couple authors who suggest Waltzer was his real name - I don't have notes in front of me, but I think Barney Barnard and perhaps Milton Rose are two of the ones who suggested that. I'll see if I can dig up some information tonight to be more specific.
Since you brought up the subject, what sources have you run across that reference him as Waltzer?
As far as I know, all the documents signed by him that are in existence including signatures on a letter or two and legel recorded documents (I believe including his citizenship documentation) all appear to be WALTZ and not Waltzer. In addition, Sims Ely who wrote about the Lost Dutchman mine and who interviewed Julia Thomas who knew Waltz in person, referred to him as Waltz - as did Jim Bark who was also supposedly an aquaintence of the man.
Tuberale
Gold Member
Re: Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
Cubfan64 said:
cactusjumper
Gold Member
Re: Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
Tube,
Barry Storm called him Walz in 1939. Barney Barnard called him Walzer in 1954 and stated that other writers had called him: "Wolz, Walz, Waltz, Walty and even as Jacob Miller". According to Brownie Holmes, his name was Wolz, and that's how he wrote it in his manuscript......assuming he wrote it at all. That would have been around 1950.
Take your pick.
Now for a little quiz.........Where did Barnard get the Walzer name, at least where did he say he found it?
Joe Ribaudo
Tube,
Barry Storm called him Walz in 1939. Barney Barnard called him Walzer in 1954 and stated that other writers had called him: "Wolz, Walz, Waltz, Walty and even as Jacob Miller". According to Brownie Holmes, his name was Wolz, and that's how he wrote it in his manuscript......assuming he wrote it at all. That would have been around 1950.
Take your pick.
Now for a little quiz.........Where did Barnard get the Walzer name, at least where did he say he found it?
Joe Ribaudo
wwjohnson
Greenie
Re: Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
Im not 100 % positive but I am guessing Barnard got the walzer name from Charles F. Higham and Highham's 1946 book The True Story of Jacob Walzer and his Famous Hidden Gold Mine ?
Im not 100 % positive but I am guessing Barnard got the walzer name from Charles F. Higham and Highham's 1946 book The True Story of Jacob Walzer and his Famous Hidden Gold Mine ?
cactusjumper
Gold Member
Re: Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
Mr. Johnson,
Pretty bad quiz when you can't even ask the proper question.
You are, of course, correct. The question should have been: Where did Higham say he found the Walzer name? I assume you will know the answer to that as well.
Thanks for your reply,
Joe Ribaudo
Mr. Johnson,
Pretty bad quiz when you can't even ask the proper question.
You are, of course, correct. The question should have been: Where did Higham say he found the Walzer name? I assume you will know the answer to that as well.
Thanks for your reply,
Joe Ribaudo
Blindbowman
Bronze Member
- Aug 15, 2007
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Re: Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
i got just one question .. if all these so called books and writers had the facts .. then why did no one find the mine ...?
i saw the mine .. no one has been to that mine in as much as a 100 years or more .. uinless you count those at the bottom ....
i got just one question .. if all these so called books and writers had the facts .. then why did no one find the mine ...?
i saw the mine .. no one has been to that mine in as much as a 100 years or more .. uinless you count those at the bottom ....
wwjohnson
Greenie
Re: Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
Once again i cant say for sure but Highham gave credit for his information in his 1946 book basced on personel interviews with these people. JWWalker, Gus Hirshfeld, Frank TAlkire, Pearl Fricker Vernon Clark, Herman Petrash Sidney Osborn, CJ Arthur and, WGRinnard. It is probably one of these people who gave the walzer name to Highham. Herman Petrash can be left out because he wrote a letter to the city of phoenix saying where Jacob Waltz had been burried and he used the name waltz so he knew the right name.Mrs Fricker also wrote letters usingthe name waltz so she knew the right name to.
Will Johnson
Apache Junction
Once again i cant say for sure but Highham gave credit for his information in his 1946 book basced on personel interviews with these people. JWWalker, Gus Hirshfeld, Frank TAlkire, Pearl Fricker Vernon Clark, Herman Petrash Sidney Osborn, CJ Arthur and, WGRinnard. It is probably one of these people who gave the walzer name to Highham. Herman Petrash can be left out because he wrote a letter to the city of phoenix saying where Jacob Waltz had been burried and he used the name waltz so he knew the right name.Mrs Fricker also wrote letters usingthe name waltz so she knew the right name to.
Will Johnson
Apache Junction
Cubfan64
Silver Member
- Feb 13, 2006
- 2,986
- 2,790
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Re: Jacob Waltz the "Killer"??
I thought Hermann Petrasch wrote a letter to someone else admonishing them for using the name Waltz and that anyone who really knew him knew his name was actually Waltzer. I'll have to look for that reference somewhere although I may be wrong.
wwjohnson said:
I thought Hermann Petrasch wrote a letter to someone else admonishing them for using the name Waltz and that anyone who really knew him knew his name was actually Waltzer. I'll have to look for that reference somewhere although I may be wrong.
