Legend vs Realitiy

[azdave35]

Besides the story about the copperhead snake, which looks like a common bull snake in the photo, which parts are BS, specifically?

alan.... its probably been a while since you read the book..read it again and see what you think....the part about the apaches being after him and he finally made peace with the apache....the description of his area with the 4 guard houses ...theres so much b.s. in that book the cover should have been brown

 

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[Al D]

alan.... its probably been a while since you read the book..read it again and see what you think....the part about the apaches being after him and he finally made peace with the apache....the description of his area with the 4 guard houses ...theres so much b.s. in that book the cover should have been brown

I agree with you, there is a lot of “embellishment” for the sake of creating drama, however, my real interest is in the locations where they were working and what they actually discovered.

 

[cyzak]

That book is mostly BS.

When I get home, I will post a pic and description of an actual Spanish/Mexican Death Trap found in Mexico several years ago.

Mike

Please do post the photo, I am always interested in factual information.

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

People start with a good story and facts start getting lost in a hurry.
Have to get back to this and see if I understand Bowman right.
Meanwhile, anyone recommend a good compass? One thing is certain, it is always good to know skills which don't rely on electricity and such.
Btw, what is the jumping off point for LDM hunters? I'll never go there but this is interesting stuff to me.
How in heck you make peace with Apaches...and I want to see the death trap.

 

[Al D]

People start with a good story and facts start getting lost in a hurry.
Have to get back to this and see if I understand Bowman right.
Meanwhile, anyone recommend a good compass? One thing is certain, it is always good to know skills which don't rely on electricity and such.
Btw, what is the jumping off point for LDM hunters? I'll never go there but this is interesting stuff to me.
How in heck you make peace with Apaches...and I want to see the death trap.

Hugh O’Connor came close, he did not gain peace, but he did reach a level of understanding, The Apache respected and feared him, he brought peace, of a sorts, to the frontier.

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

The curse of the dutchman's gold- Helen Corbin. Thoughts on this book?

 

[Al D]

The curse of the dutchman's gold- Helen Corbin. Thoughts on this book?

It has been a while since I read that book, however, I find value in every book I have read, even Bob Wards

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

It has been a while since I read that book, however, I find value in every book I have read, even Bob Wards

Generally you can learn something from every book, and even humans nobody else would think to speak with.

 

[Oroblanco]

Blindbowman wrote

I have no idea what your talking about . but that's OK ... why would I want to come on a site and argue... that's just not productive ... I never needed to come back this site ....good luck ...

I think I need more coffee.

Hillbilly Prince - Brunton are the best compasses IMHO, Silva are okay, if you are on a budget look for a military surplus as they are high quality at a reasonable cost.

There are multiple jumping off points for Dutch hunters. The most popular is the Peralta trailhead on the S side of the mountains, but the First Water trail is also popular as is the Quarter Circle U ranch. Tortilla ranch road is not popular and very rough, most vehicles cannot make it past the 'staircase', coming in from Iron Mountain is a long way round but is a good way to get in the area of Rogers canyon etc. Your starting point will depend on what area(s) you wish to get to. As a side point, the Quarter Circle U ranch formerly was "the" starting point, few Dutch hunters would bother starting anywhere else than there.

The Curse of the Dutchman's Gold by Helen Corbin is one of the very best books on the LDM in my opinion. The second book by her, the 'Bible' is however not very reliable and I would highly recommend to double check any particular fact(s) you wish to rely on found in that book, as a good deal of false info got mixed into the manuscript. Sadly Helen passed away and cannot release a second edition to correct the issues.

Death traps are not all Spanish - the Indians also created them for use against their enemies. May have some photos of death traps built by Indians here somewhere, usually big rock(s) set up to be tripped very easily by someone getting too close or to be triggered by hand.

Please do continue;

 

[Blindbowman]

have you ever seen the fast ball go right past you before you ready ? .. guess what here is the fast ball ... it is so brilliant I don't even under stand all of it my self .. but you will all enjoy this , ok some of you a long time ago almost 20 years ago remember when me and real de Tayopa debated what was the difference between the 2 or 3 Tayopa mining camps , you will be amazed as I am . I told you I found a small village razed to the ground and that I had been testing sequence of evens to see what and where this village fit in .. I first told you I had found the village of Tayopa then I was confused how that could be Tayopa if it was down in Sonora .. but guess the village Was Cibola not a joke the real Cibola , we just did not get the details in the right order ...when he says I look at the village and it was covered in gold . he was correct .. Gold dust . he never went and looked at what the village was ..he made statement in 1539 ,by the time Coronado gets back to the village , it is 1941 , now do you see it ... 1940 the El Mino blows the gold dust off the roofs of the houses in the village . and the city of gold vanishes with the wind .......lol I can show you the church and the remains of a few dozen houses in that village and I can prove the gold dust came from a volcanic blow out near by ...how did I put the details together ...? I was going threw the Tayopa treasure list and saw where he says they covered their houses in gold ...they never knew the gold dust was on the houses , read this :“It is situated on a level stretch on the brow of a roundish hill,” the friar said. “It appears to be a very beautiful city, the best that I have seen in these parts.” The priest acknowledged, however, that he had only seen the city from a distance and had not entered it because he thought the Zuni Indian inhabitants would kill him if he approached.
But when a large and expensive Spanish expedition returned to the area in 1541, they found only a modest adobe pueblo that wasn’t anything resembling what the priest described. , now do you under stand .. what I have found is the village of Cibola that was latter renamed :Ever since Fransisco Vasquez de Coronado wrote the Spanish Viceroy Mendoza in 1538: "the natives of Topira (the name given to Tayopa in the early annals) wear gold and emeralds and other precious stones. ?They make general use of gold and silver with which they cover their houses. lets me tell you the greatest tail ever told . there is a whale out there in that crazy set of Mountains and it blew out a enough gold dust to cover a small village and create one of the greatest legends ever know and made fools of rings and rich and made rich men poor ...and I am truly sorry but I am LMAO !

 

[azdave35]

It has been a while since I read that book, however, I find value in every book I have read, even Bob Wards

yep...bobs book had some good stuff in it..but i think the only thing magill's book was good for is it is the book that got most of us started on the ldm

 

[Blindbowman]

look close the bells on the treasure list were not made till 1603 ....but the 125 lbs bell fits the church that found ...and the Tayopa treasure list describes the church and surrounding area to the letter ! bingo we have winner !

 

[Blindbowman]

“It is situated on a level stretch on the brow of a roundish hill,” the friar said. “It appears to be a very beautiful city, the best that I have seen in these parts.” The priest acknowledged, however, that he had only seen the city from a distance and had not entered it because he thought the Zuni Indian inhabitants would kill him if he approached. I think this is amazing historical site ..that needs to be protected ..

 

[Blindbowman]

I know for a fact I am correct if this is a real Zuni site this is older then all the legends put together ...

 

[cyzak]

People start with a good story and facts start getting lost in a hurry.
Have to get back to this and see if I understand Bowman right.
Meanwhile, anyone recommend a good compass? One thing is certain, it is always good to know skills which don't rely on electricity and such.
Btw, what is the jumping off point for LDM hunters? I'll never go there but this is interesting stuff to me.
How in heck you make peace with Apaches...and I want to see the death trap.

Im with Oroblanco on the Burnton compass, I also use a PLS 5 beam to fits easy into a pack.

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

Blindbowman wrote


I think I need more coffee.

Hillbilly Prince - Brunton are the best compasses IMHO, Silva are okay, if you are on a budget look for a military surplus as they are high quality at a reasonable cost.

There are multiple jumping off points for Dutch hunters. The most popular is the Peralta trailhead on the S side of the mountains, but the First Water trail is also popular as is the Quarter Circle U ranch. Tortilla ranch road is not popular and very rough, most vehicles cannot make it past the 'staircase', coming in from Iron Mountain is a long way round but is a good way to get in the area of Rogers canyon etc. Your starting point will depend on what area(s) you wish to get to. As a side point, the Quarter Circle U ranch formerly was "the" starting point, few Dutch hunters would bother starting anywhere else than there.

The Curse of the Dutchman's Gold by Helen Corbin is one of the very best books on the LDM in my opinion. The second book by her, the 'Bible' is however not very reliable and I would highly recommend to double check any particular fact(s) you wish to rely on found in that book, as a good deal of false info got mixed into the manuscript. Sadly Helen passed away and cannot release a second edition to correct the issues.

Death traps are not all Spanish - the Indians also created them for use against their enemies. May have some photos of death traps built by Indians here somewhere, usually big rock(s) set up to be tripped very easily by someone getting too close or to be triggered by hand.

Please do continue;

I always like coffee !
Thanks for the information. Four hundred dollars for a
compass maybe after I find some relic people want badly. Found a few Silvas less expensive. Just for now want to learn some basic navigation.
I've seen photos of curious rocks stacked in Louisiana and the poster wanted to know if it was a death trap.
Mother nature can be very creative- has the world at her disposal. But a simple dead fall would be easy, I think.
I've seen your posts on Tayopa's thread. Hope he gets his book out. He has had quite a life.
If I were twenty again maybe I would become a LDM hunter. Or maybe investigate all the signs of Spanish presence here in Missouri. Easier to stay alive in all these trees

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

I know for a fact I am correct if this is a real Zuni site this is older then all the legends put together ...

Are you the only one aware of this place? Sounds fascinating.
From your posts about fault lines I gathered you believe there are richer veins than the LDM?
What else do you think would explain the little "city of gold"?
Have you seen Arcana Exploration's website? If I got the name right.

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

Would Coronado exaggerate to the Viceroy in order to justify his activities or need to? Not aware of who was funding him at the moment so asking rather than asking duckduckgo

 

[Oroblanco]

I always like coffee !
Thanks for the information. Four hundred dollars for a
compass maybe after I find some relic people want badly. Found a few Silvas less expensive. Just for now want to learn some basic navigation.
I've seen photos of curious rocks stacked in Louisiana and the poster wanted to know if it was a death trap.
Mother nature can be very creative- has the world at her disposal. But a simple dead fall would be easy, I think.
I've seen your posts on Tayopa's thread. Hope he gets his book out. He has had quite a life.
If I were twenty again maybe I would become a LDM hunter. Or maybe investigate all the signs of Spanish presence here in Missouri. Easier to stay alive in all these trees

You can get a Brunton for around $12 here is one example (not pushing Cabela's)
https://www.cabelas.com/product/Bru...VlBx9Ch3WiQr8EAQYASABEgI64_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Everyone has their own physical limitations, sometimes it just takes more 'engineerin' to get the job done - if you are able to hike in rough country you should be able to handle the Superstition mountains.

While you are researching the history of Missouri don't overlook the French presence. It was a French Jesuit that first trod the land there and they were actively searching for a silver mine at that time. The French Jesuit 'Relations' are available online too (free) it is a fascinating history.

Please do continue;

 

[Blindbowman]

I will be honest with you all I would not have believed this was Cibola ,but the description they give is 100% on the money ...I guess thinking a storm could blow away the gold dust is guessing but no matter how the gold dust was removed . the effect is the same ...when they return to the site all they found was old Zuni remains of a village . I was just counting those house remains a few days ago ...the evidence found at a site like that would be 3,000-4,000 years old and would be a great stuff for the LDM museum and reflect the true nature of that rare Indian tribes way of life ... this must be what the bone knife was trying to tell me ...when I saw this knife I was thinking it was far older then anything else I had seen so I left right where it was ....