Legend vs Realitiy

[Hillbilly Prince]

Are you contending that these people and caves are the seven caves of Chicomoztoc? I was not stating that people have never lived in caves, perhaps you misunderstood my question to Blindbowman?

Blindbowman wrote


I take it then that you do not have any photos of these surviving Aztec-ancestral stock living in the seven caves? Is your belief that there are people still living in the legendary seven caves of Chicomoztoc based on a vision of yours? Thanks in advance.

I'm sorry, I suppose it did sound as if I thought you were stating people never lived in caves. But I was just pointing out something interesting.
Yes, that is a photo I took of some Aztecs lounging outside the secret location of the seven caves of Cibola. Although they did not know why I wanted them to stand still while I pointed my magic box at them, they were quite cooperative. They had just finished attending a human sacrifice
I was just joking, Oro It seems no one is sure where these caves are, or if they ever existed. Except for Bowman, who isn't telling.

 

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[Hillbilly Prince]

roy...must be the same cave with the keebler elves

I thought those guys lived in a tree. Or was that just the cookie factory

 

[Blindbowman]

i have spent Over $42,000 researching these legends and ...now i am getting knee surgery so i can go back go back again .. i am going work and search alone from here on out .. .:did you see them come out ...? when i watch a man dressed as a Aztec with a mountain loin paws on his club making foot prints in the sand to scare people .away . i stand in shadows like i was dead ... you think what ever you want what every you can live with .i can live with my research .....!. i will read but that's where this ends ... stay safe stay free ...

 

[sdcfia]

I spoke with Gerry Babcock a couple times about 15 years ago when he was writing his book. You can read the story and judge for yourself. The whole thing hinges on the old letter found in Missouri. Being a skeptic when it comes to treasure tales, I remember that I liked the guy.

Whether Babcock's allegations are true or not, his premise is interesting food for thought. Even though I personally reject the popularized Superstition Mountain legends (you know, the ones that have sent people chasing their tails for a century or more), I do suspect that there is something of great value hidden away somewhere in the region. I also suspect an Aztec connection to the American Southwest which is linked to a major source of the gold they once had in abundance. Of course, I may be wrong.

Most treasure legends as presented are lies IMO, but originate from some camouflaged truth.

 

[Blindbowman]

I spoke with Gerry Babcock a couple times about 15 years ago when he was writing his book. You can read the story and judge for yourself. The whole thing hinges on the old letter found in Missouri. Being a skeptic when it comes to treasure tales, I remember that I liked the guy.

Whether Babcock's allegations are true or not, his premise is interesting food for thought. Even though I personally reject the popularized Superstition Mountain legends (you know, the ones that have sent people chasing their tails for a century or more), I do suspect that there is something of great value hidden away somewhere in the region. I also suspect an Aztec connection to the American Southwest which is linked to a major source of the gold they once had in abundance. Of course, I may be wrong.

Most treasure legends as presented are lies IMO, but originate from some camouflaged truth.

..... Babcock was correct more then he knew ,you have to have the details before it looks logical .. Atlantis was what the Aztec called the Bee hive . in the northern Atlantic ocean ..Atlantis was on top of a mountain ,where they had cut the top off and made it flat but the land mass started to sink into the ocean where the ice caps melted just like they are now ,that's why they move the pyramids from where they were near the bottom of the Atlantis mountain to where they are now and Atlantis was part of a huge culture that included the Aztec and north America that was known as Aztland .that's why we see the sphinx there and that culture in the grand canyon the seven caves were link to all the tribes in Aztland and to the hive in Atlantis they were 3 sister cultures till Atlantis sank into the ocean ...am I the only one that sees the in laid gem stone in face mask on the dead ...they were very much the same cultures ... so the wording is a little different ... they had the power to open and close this cave system and Babcock was a little off the LDM vane runs threw two of the caves ...its near the entrance to the seven caves .. I think the Spaniards could not find a way into the seven caves and they got made and destroyed the city ....they started by killing the tribes friends ,the Jesuit ...the fact remained they had no way to get them out of the seven caves ..

 

[White Heart]

In my research I came across this story about Montezuma and the founding of Mexico that has been kicking around New Mexico since the 1840's.

 

[sdcfia]

In my research I came across this story about Montezuma and the founding of Mexico that has been kicking around New Mexico since the 1840's.

View attachment 1760992

Even today, the traditionalists at Taos Pueblo still revere an ancient god named Montezuma in their beliefs. As I remember, he was white and came from a great distance to today's New Mexico. Some of the other pueblos also mention him. I don't know why the Aztecs rulers were also named Montezuma - maybe some sort of distant connection?

 

[Blindbowman]

see that's just problem I have been trying to tell everyone about ,the seven caves are not in NM , they are in the superstition mountains ..lol

 

[Ol' Kentuck]

Even today, the traditionalists at Taos Pueblo still revere an ancient god named Montezuma in their beliefs. As I remember, he was white and came from a great distance to today's New Mexico. Some of the other pueblos also mention him. I don't know why the Aztecs rulers were also named Montezuma - maybe some sort of distant connection?

 

[Blindbowman]

that all most as funny as where Bark put his notes ....lol

 

[sdcfia]

If a person wanted to link SW treasure sites to the ancients, what better places to ponder than those on the 33rd parallel:
- Victorio Peak NM, 32°56'
- Burbank Canyon NM, 32°58'
- Horse Mountain NM, 33°2'
- Todos Santos NM, 32°57'
- Big Lue Mountain AZ, 33°4'
- Adamsville AZ, 33°1'
- Heck, throw in Spaceport America if you want more conspiracy in the mix, 32°59'

It really gets interesting when you begin drawing great circle azimuths connecting sites like these and many others to important axis mundi structures in the Old and New Worlds. Gotta have longitudes to go along with the latitudes. Hence the need for building observatories all over the place - control points for gathering cartographic data.

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

For what it is worth, I'm posting this comment made on an article found here:

https://uncoveredhistory.com/mesoamerica/chicomoztoc/


"Stone Sculpture
Gregory Dominguez
AUGUST 1, 2019 AT 4:59 PM
First may I begin with Fact: There has never in our CEMANAHUAK history of a tribe with the name Uto- Aztecan. We have been called every name your scholors thought of other than the truth and we are not a mythical people we are THE UTO- MÉXICHIKAH we originated the mountains West of Salt Lake City Utah the location is not a myth Chicomoztoc us and actual place in the Ute territory and are brethren to the Paiute and Ute Nations if AZTLÁN /ATLANTIS the Northern half of the Uto-Mexichikáh Empire in Anahuak . The name Aztec derived from Aztaztlán where Huihuipochtiltli (GOD) via Ometeotl ( JESUS ) warn us not to use Aztec as any kind of identifying who we truly are. The Cherokee are descendants to the Iraqouis as they are descendants to the Nahuatliolli tribes “Those who speak who speak a dialect of the mother languege of Classic Nahuátl in Fact the language of the Tenocheka of the twin cities of today’s Valley of Mexico
we began our migration Nochtili in the year 1063 AD. our migration was a directive to where the city of artiseans (Toltecoyatl ) called the Toltecs . We did wonder AZTLÁN
we were ordered to leave Chicomoztoc because of the imminent dangers of poisonous sulfer filled gases and fallout of the many eruptions of the nearby active volcanos that were killing animals crops leaving the landscape of Chicomoztoc desullete bare deserts of day in the 150,000 square miles of the American south west some of us went to YanYuik territorymy family Pedigree name is Peru. And I in Fact am 6th generation Great-grandson of Manuel Peru 1663 AD of the Chihuahua Kingdom which was one of 80 nations of ANAHUÁC CEMANAHUAK my information, it’s accuracy is 100% . those of us that continued to the Valley of Mexico and built upon the ruins left behind after the demise of the Toltecs which I’m not in liberty to say anything about them. So despite what WIKIPEDIA renditions are irrelavant and hold no merit nor fact.Plato was like a glass half full half empty we with respect to India and her rich beautiful culture we are not Indians we are not a dead Tribe our languege culture and truth is and has been alive and doing well . We are the CEMANAHUAKEAN period.
Teotehuacán/Tenochtitlán built upon ruins of the Toltecayotl we are cousins to the Yucatec Maya and migrated to all areas of what is still to us The Uto-Mexichiká Empire I created ANABTAO a place for all peoples of CEMANAHUAK where we at this moment are sharing and comparing our Histories in order to secure our presents here in America in the near future the world will be enlighten by the truth that has been swept under the rug 528 years have passed which gave us the CEMANAHUAKEANS plenty of time to regroup as one Indigenous people of the land between two waters Not! The new world reall!y we have awaken and will accept the past and all born on this land are Native Americans that said : Indigenous Natives differ immensely. Point in case How can an Indigenous persons be immigrants of thier own Nation? Preservation and Reservation mean two different concepts of what the THIER descriptions indicate. Voice of CEMANAHUAK- Advocate forJUSTICE and EQUALITY . Gregory Xocoyotlzen Dominguez"

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

If a person wanted to link SW treasure sites to the ancients, what better places to ponder than those on the 33rd parallel:
- Victorio Peak NM, 32°56'
- Burbank Canyon NM, 32°58'
- Horse Mountain NM, 33°2'
- Todos Santos NM, 32°57'
- Big Lue Mountain AZ, 33°4'
- Adamsville AZ, 33°1'
- Heck, throw in Spaceport America if you want more conspiracy in the mix, 32°59'

It really gets interesting when you begin drawing great circle azimuths connecting sites like these and many others to important axis mundi structures in the Old and New Worlds. Gotta have longitudes to go along with the latitudes. Hence the need for building observatories all over the place - control points for gathering cartographic data.

I'll find and post a Tnet thread which may tie into what you have here. A guy musing on the idea of a well-planned migration which took years.
Wonder if distinctive Aztec culture and art only truly took shape after they arrived in Mexico. Which would possibly account for lack of Aztec artifacts strewn across any possible routes.

 

[Hillbilly Prince]

i have spent Over $42,000 researching these legends and ...now i am getting knee surgery so i can go back go back again .. i am going work and search alone from here on out .. .:did you see them come out ...? when i watch a man dressed as a Aztec with a mountain loin paws on his club making foot prints in the sand to scare people .away . i stand in shadows like i was dead ... you think what ever you want what every you can live with .i can live with my research .....!. i will read but that's where this ends ... stay safe stay free ...

Who knows? The guy may be on to something.
I don't think anything.
Can a small group survive without being detected in the Superstitions? I don't know because I don't know what food resources there are.
My sister and her husband were in the wilderness area in the Colirado mountains and ran into some men. They were armed and not exactly eelcoming. Seemed kind of secretive. My sister thought they were possibly survivalists or some group who were living up there for whatever reason. Which would be illegal.
Was this guy you saw carrying one of those clubs with the obsidian points in it? If I saw that I would sure be still

 

[gollum]

Kentuck,

Not sure why you posted the pic of the Joseph II Coin, but if it is for the item at the center, it is called a "Globus Cruciger". It was a sign of power and basically means "God above the world below". God rules over the Earth. I believe this is a pic of Joseph II's actual Globus Cruciger:



Mike

 

[gollum]

Even today, the traditionalists at Taos Pueblo still revere an ancient god named Montezuma in their beliefs. As I remember, he was white and came from a great distance to today's New Mexico. Some of the other pueblos also mention him. I don't know why the Aztecs rulers were also named Montezuma - maybe some sort of distant connection?

The biggest problem is the name "MONTEZUMA". Not even close to the Aztec King's real name. not even "MOCTEZUMA". Moctezuma I's name was "Motecuhzoma Ilhuicamina". Definitely not the same guy. Moctezuma I didn't lead the Aztecs from Aztlan either. Moctezuma I was the 5th Aztec King AFTER they made a home at Tenochtitlan.

Mike

 

[Blindbowman]

here I just spent over 8 hours researching this ... In 1536, Cortés explored the northwestern part of Mexico and discovered the Baja California Peninsula. Cortés also spent time exploring the Pacific coast of Mexico. The Gulf of California was originally named the Sea of Cortes by its discoverer Francisco de Ulloa in 1539. This was the last major expedition by Cortés. but before he did that he was hunting for silver mines :Cortes acquired several silver mines in Zumpango del Rio in 1534. By the early 1540s, he owned 20 silver mines in Sultepec, 12 in Taxco, and 3 in Zacualpan. Earlier, Cortes had claimed the silver in the Tamazula area.[SUP]

Now do you see what I am trying to point out .. look at the dates ,, that was the only time in his conquest in New Spain that he could have been at the seven caves trying to own the rich silver mines ...remember the dates I said were on the wall at the seven caves . 1535-1537...that's the only time he could have gone to the seven caves ....I am correct . that drawing on the wall is Cortes ![/SUP]

 

[Blindbowman]

look at the Facts :"In 1536, Cortés explored the northwestern part of Mexico" Arizona was in the northwestern part of Mexico at that point in time ......!

 

[Blindbowman]

don't you under stand what's going on yet . the Spaniards massacred out in the desert where not from Coronado or 1647.. they were left their but Corte's in 1537 to run the mines , what the king of Spain dose not know make Cortes a rich man ...and mad Coronado look like a fool ...

 

[sdcfia]

The biggest problem is the name "MONTEZUMA". Not even close to the Aztec King's real name. not even "MOCTEZUMA". Moctezuma I's name was "Motecuhzoma Ilhuicamina". Definitely not the same guy. Moctezuma I didn't lead the Aztecs from Aztlan either. Moctezuma I was the 5th Aztec King AFTER they made a home at Tenochtitlan.

Mike

True. We use the common English spelling strictly for our own convenience. Same goes for the Taos and other SW Pueblos' legends.

Many/most of the ethnologists and anthropologists who interviewed the North American indigenous people were well-intended I guess, but IMO their work is likely only an outline of any sort of complete cultural/historical package. There are many reasons for this, but mistrust of the white man is likely the strongest. The earliest Spanish in South and Central America set a clear precedent. North American Natives withstood the later onslaught as well as they could, but the traditionalists have always kept the most important information to themselves. White guys will never get the best secrets from them.


Destroyed Franciscan church, Taos Pueblo