Livin off the Grid

[MD Dog]

I went on my first hunting trip last summer a buddy of mine said he'd take me out and teach me all the ropes. What ensued went sommething like this.

 

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[WV Hillbilly]

I've hunted & fished all my life . M D , there's been several times I've been concerned about something like that ending it for me . In many of the areas I've lived you can buy firewood a lot cheaper than you can heat with anything else if you can't cut your own . I have a friend that built a modern log house & tried numerous ways to be self sufficent . He installed solar panels , had his house facing south with a lot of large windows in the front for solar gain , installed a composting toilet & had a greenhouse across the front of his house that was incorperated into the house design . He also ordered a masonary fireplace that has a really small fire box & also has an oven built into the side of it . I guess these type of fireplaces are fairly common in some foreign countries . The fireplace has a fairly large base & runs from the floor right on up through the center of the house & out the roof . It also has baffles built into it so the smoke & heat has to take a wavy path to get up & out of it .
The fireplace came with numbered masonary blocks that you assembled by the numbers . As I mentioned before it has a small fire box in which you build a small , hot fire , about twice a day . The masonary absorbs the heat , then radiates heat for hours . Since the firebox is small & the fires you build are hot , it doesn't use much wood & there is no creasote problems .
The composting toilet had a large tank in the basement that caught the waste & tumbled the waste ever so often to get thorough composting results . It had a hand crank that you used to turn the tumbler once a day or so . It also had a vent pipe that went up & out of the wall to remove any smell . The vent pipe had a small electric fan mounted inside it for positive venting .
He had problems with the system however & ended up replacing it with a conventional septic system . The problem had something to do with liquid waste overflowing or something like that . Don't know exactly what the problem was but it was probably something that he had done wrong while installing it or something he was doing wrong maintaining the system .
His power useage was really low as he used very expensive but extremely efficent appliances such as the frige , dishwasher , ect . The solar panels didn't really generate much electricty although he had several installed . At times he had to run his generator to charge his batteries . He also had propane gas for the range & water heater which was a tankless water heater .
The waste water from the bathtub / shower & sinks drained through pipes buried in the greenhouse floor & helped heat the floor & the watewater also went through a filter & could then be used for greenhouse plants .
The roof on the house was about a 1 foot thick piece of solid fiberglass insulation sandwiched between sheets of plywood & covered with aluminum shingles recycled from beer & soda cans .
I found a lot of what he did very interesting but I have my doubts as to wheather it was cost effective . Could probably have paid an electric bill for less , especially when you consider the useful life & initial cost of the systems he used . Best Paul

 

[gnewt]

MD Time for garlic, mine is already comming up, it has spread into the edge of the garden, makes a good border. Stinks so good when you mow around it.mmmmmm
Gnewt

 

[nickel67]

What about geothermal?? Just a thought. Nickel67

 

[Cannonman17]

Thanks for posting that- it's inspirational.

 

[MD Dog]

I've hunted & fished all my life . M D , there's been several times I've been concerned about something like that ending it for me . In many of the areas I've lived you can buy firewood a lot cheaper than you can heat with anything else if you can't cut your own . I have a friend that built a modern log house & tried numerous ways to be self sufficient . He installed solar panels , had his house facing south with a lot of large windows in the front for solar gain , installed a composting toilet & had a greenhouse across the front of his house that was Incorporated into the house design . He also ordered a masonry fireplace that has a really small fire box & also has an oven built into the side of it . I guess these type of fireplaces are fairly common in some foreign countries . The fireplace has a fairly large base & runs from the floor right on up through the center of the house & out the roof . It also has baffles built into it so the smoke & heat has to take a wavy path to get up & out of it .
The fireplace came with numbered masonry blocks that you assembled by the numbers . As I mentioned before it has a small fire box in which you build a small , hot fire , about twice a day . The masonry absorbs the heat , then radiates heat for hours . Since the firebox is small & the fires you build are hot , it doesn't use much wood & there is no creosote problems .
The composting toilet had a large tank in the basement that caught the waste & tumbled the waste ever so often to get thorough composting results . It had a hand crank that you used to turn the tumbler once a day or so . It also had a vent pipe that went up & out of the wall to remove any smell . The vent pipe had a small electric fan mounted inside it for positive venting .
He had problems with the system however & ended up replacing it with a conventional septic system . The problem had something to do with liquid waste overflowing or something like that . Don't know exactly what the problem was but it was probably something that he had done wrong while installing it or something he was doing wrong maintaining the system .
His power useage was really low as he used very expensive but extremely efficient appliances such as the fridge , dishwasher , ect . The solar panels didn't really generate much electricty although he had several installed . At times he had to run his generator to charge his batteries . He also had propane gas for the range & water heater which was a tankless water heater .
The waste water from the bathtub / shower & sinks drained through pipes buried in the greenhouse floor & helped heat the floor & the watewater also went through a filter & could then be used for greenhouse plants .
The roof on the house was about a 1 foot thick piece of solid fiberglass insulation sandwiched between sheets of plywood & covered with aluminum shingles recycled from beer & soda cans .
I found a lot of what he did very interesting but I have my doubts as to wheather it was cost effective . Could probably have paid an electric bill for less , especially when you consider the useful life & initial cost of the systems he used . Best Paul

I do have a wood stove in our living room I had Installed for a back up system awhile ago WV. But Since we have signed a oil and Gas lease for our property that allows us 20,000 Gallons of propane for free each month I left our propane furnace in place. I do have plans though of changing it from forced hot air to radiant baseboard heating. I do know the masonry heater your talking about their called "Russian" or "Siberian" furnaces, and they are super efficient. One big advantage with them is you can burn anything in them even pine.

P.S. I have no problem really with hunting and given the time needed I would most definitely take it up as a passtime. I seem to really be drawn to the bird hunting arena more than deer though however I must admit a horseback Elk Hunt sure seems to be beckoning to me. As for fishing I love it and again, wish I had more time to invest into it. Of course those of you who know me also know I've suffered some health issues lately that will most definitely mean a slow down if not complete and full retirement so who knows I might be much more inclined to take up yet another obsession or two.

MD Time for garlic, mine is already comming up, it has spread into the edge of the garden, makes a good border. Stinks so good when you mow around it.mmmmmm
Gnewt

OMG Gnewt I love garlic I so wanna include it into my garden But I wanna grow multiple types. I just haven't gotten around to that research yet. I know the white garlic I find at the local supermarket inported from who knows where is really lame, hardly any flavor at all. So If you've got some Garlic type suggestions let's have um Big Guy...

What about geothermal?? Just a thought. Nickel67

Geothermal sytsems are very Cool Nickel, but as for me atleast I think it maybe to pricey for the return on investment. Since the other things I've mentioned cost less to install initially to continue further with anything there becomes a point where the money invested yeild little or no increase in efficiency. Although I have the land space to consider the technology for geothermal allot of people don't. The space needed can be substantial. Plus the depth at which the piping must be installed can also be a factor for increased pricing. I'm told in my area a depth of sixteen feet would be needed for the cheapest type of geothermal tubing burial and it would require some 200 to 300 ft of coiled abs with a shallow well pump running 120 and moving a minimum of 10 gpm with 80 psi so the amt of energy consumed would leave very little for use in heating and then only to 50*. Additional heating to bring the water up to a needed 120*-150*.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

The Mr. and our first (of three) windmills.

 

[WV Hillbilly]

Garlic is supposed to be really good for you . Isn't there one called elephant garlic that is supposed
to have all the benifits without the bad breath smell ?
The friend I refered to earlier had a cement floor in his house with pipes in the cement . He used a
regular gas water heater ( tank type ) with a circulating pump , wired up to a wall thermostat , to heat
& circulate the water through the pipes in the floor . Don't know how efficient his method of heating
the water was . If you have access to more gas than you're using you could use a similiar method for
baseboard heaters . When you say propane , do you mean natural gas ? If it's coming out of a gas well
it would be natural gas . Propane gets delivered to your home & put in a tank , unless you've got
something I've never heard of .
I have unlimited free natural gas that comes from a gas well on my property .

 

[MD Dog]

All gases used for home heating have their origin from the same place. Decaying plant and animal matter produces pockets of gas underground as they continue to be digested by the bacteria that causes them to biodegrade. The differences between Natural Gas and Methane, age. The difference between methane and propane is that propane has a smell added. Of course all this is way over simplified but to get the gist all we need to understand is that the only modification needed to burn one gas from another is a change in the size of the orifice feeding the appliance. So Although I currently am using propane we will be having a Natural Gas well drilled on our property hopefully this summer or next fall and all I'll need to do is change orifices from one to the other.

So As far as Chickens cause I know we all wanna talk chickens. I've been looking fer designs I like that I'll only wanna make a few mods to. Here's a pic of one I found what do you guys think ?

 

[WV Hillbilly]

I know about changing the orifices to use either propane or natural gas . A lot of the older furnaces
came with an extra orifice for just that purpose . The newer gas furnaces & water heaters & maybe
other appliances are usually labeled for what type gas you want to use . Don't know if you can change
the orifices in these or not . I thought propane was refined from crude .
Yup , Chickens
At one time I kept about a dozen chickens . I also had a big rhode island red rooster that I kept with
them just because he was pretty & I wanted to hear him crow in the mornings . My wife hated him be-
cause he would jump on her every chance he got . He never jumped on me , guess he knew better . I
also incubated some eggs & hatched some baby chicks . Interesting thing to do .
That is an attractive coop in your picture . I assume the hinges on the end is the back of the nest
boxes so you can collect the eggs without going in the coop . If I was going to keep chickens again I
would have a similiar setup to collect the eggs & would also have a similiar system to place feed &
water in the coop . I had also thought of building a coop similiar to that & building it on skids so I could
pull it around , with a riding mower or whatever , & move it to a new patch of ground every few days .
Chickens like to eat grass & bugs & they'll fertilize your soil while doing it .
I kept a light , wired through a timer , in my chicken coop & the chickens would keep right on laying
all winter long . In the fall when the days get shorter & the chickens aren't getting as much daylight they
will normally cut way back on their egg laying . A low wattage bulb is all thats required to keep them
laying . If I remember correctly they need 14 to 16 hours of light per day to keep laying .
Reading your posts makes me want to start doing some of these things again .

 

[jonnyrebel00]

Cornburners also work well for heating just a room. If you are a farmer you can grow your own corn, and if not corn is not very expensive.



http://www.cornburnersinc.net/

 

[EDDE]

http://www.ak47.net/forums/topic.html?b=10&f=17&t=510228&page=1
bump



container shelter

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Edde,

The air force base near us (when we were in Arizona), used to auction off those containers all the time. For $75-200 a piece, you could get all different sizes of containers. The 40 foot ones usually ran around $300-$500. You can even buy them on line from the government auctions. They are cool. Some of them were so insulated, you could keep a block of ice frozen for a month. (almost foot thick walls).

WV Hillbilly,

We had several Rhode Island Reds - I feel for your wife - those RR Red roosters are nasty!!!! More than some other breeds. We had one that attacked me on several occasions, and the older he got, the worse he got. One day, I went to get the eggs, and he put two holes in my head from his talons. I shoved him away (as best I could with an bucket of eggs), but he came back after me. He attacked me several more times, while I was backing out of the hen house, and I tried to slam the door, but it bounced off his body, and he was then outside with me.
I put the eggs down, picked up a two-by and used him for a baseball. He flew into the roll of fence wire and got hung up, and I went upstairs to the house.

Apparently, he got back out, because I heard a noise, and the son of a bitc$ was coming right to the house after me. I grabbed the gun, and by the time I opened the door, he was up on the porch. I don't know why, but he seemed to know the gun was going to be a problem for him. He ran/flew down the steps, and so did I. All of a sudden, he flew straight at me - which is the very last thing he ever did.

When it was over, I ended up having to go to the doctors, because I had 3 puncture wounds in my head, 14 in my chest, 8 or so in my right thigh, and my left leg was swollen and black and blue from the middle of my hip to my knee.

So, while it sounds like a joke - this guy weighed 14 pounds, talons were VERY long and sharp, and obviously, was dangerous. The strange thing was, he went after me everyday, almost, but always backed down after a swat or two. But that day, his last day, he just went insane.

B

Oh, and a 4 year old Rhode Island Red is not fit to eat.

 

[diggemall]

"Oh, and a 4 year old Rhode Island Red is not fit to eat."

Remind me of a "problematic" rooster we had a few years back:

My kids said he was no good alive, and no good dead either.


Diggem'

 

[luckyinkentucky]

I have a place that is "Off the Grid", and we survive there just fine. Grantid ... it's a summer / weekend cottage, but it serves our purposes fine. The property is not "on the books", so to speak, because it was grandfathered in as a homestead. My Great Grandfather 4 times removed received the property from the government as a Kentucky Land Grant back in the late 1700s, and it was willed down through the years to me.

We have rainwater cisterns that collect rainwater from the roofs and a giant funnel. A cast iron wood burning stove for cooking and heat, a gravity fed septic system, and 2 solar panels with batteries for water pump, lights, radio, refrigerator, etc ...

The only thing we have to do is maintenance on the batteries, filter changes on the water lines, and we skirt trees in the spring for harvest into firewood in the fall. If we were in a drought situation we could use the Ohio River for our water supply which is only 200 yards away! If we had to survive out there we could. We keep a garden there during the summer that we tend to on the weekends, we clean the water tanks twice a summer and purge the system, and we check the batteries every time we go out there.

It's a lot of fun knowing you can do it if you had to. There is another show that was a lot of fun to watch. It's called "Frontier House" and it was on PBS not too long ago. It was a lot of fun to watch.

 

[Timberwolf]

MD Dog,

Very nice thread.
Thank you for starting it

Timberwolf

 

[Cynangyl]

I have been enjoying it as well. Been trying to watch the videos in my "spare" time I have it bookmarked though! I saw one and part of another so far and love it!! Thanks so much for sharing with us!

 

[WV Hillbilly]

Mrs O , I certainly don't think it was funny that you were hurt but the way you told the story made
me chuckle . My wife wasn't hurt by our rooster , he would just flog her with his wings . Sure made
her mad though . She promised that rooster that someday he was going to be sunday dinner . The
person I sold the chickens to really wanted him too so I let him have the rooster . That was several
years ago & I think my wife is still mad at me for not letting her kill that rooster .

 

[MD Dog]

I'm in the market for a couple of Anotolian Shepards this spring. The breeders I've talked to have so far all agreed that These dogs insist on ruling the yards they work in. The won't tolerate any other amimal trying to exert their dominance around them. The breeders say never swat a kid in front of them cause they will defend the children from anyone/thing. They'll stand down Male goats I ferget what their called. As well as roosters, Stallions and even Bulls.

 

[BuckleBoy]

I'd like to point out here that as time goes on, no matter where you live on this little blue marble, people need to be transitioning to self sufficiency. Whatever the future may hold with Armageddon, Global warming, Ice Ages, Terrorist attacks, earth quakes, tsunami's, hurricanes, super storms, volcanoes, super volcanoes, tornadoes. They are all what ifs, but not energy. We all know for a fact that energy will be in short supply, just like water and gold. When I was a kid, I n like most kids cared little for what ifs. As a teenager I joked about one day having to pay for air and water and trash. As an adult I see where we were and where were headed. Don't let these things sneak up on you or your likely to find out just how cruel this world can be.

You're EXACTLY right.

Going Green doesn't equate with a "Caveman Lifestyle" like someone suggested below--it simply means that you reduce your dependency on other resources (resources that you have to PAY for). Whether you recycle as well is your choice. It just makes sense. And with the rising energy costs--it makes even More sense. You don't have to be a "Hippie" to appreciate the fact that a little work and ingenuity saves you a lot in the pocketbook. Great thread!

-Buckleboy