Man fined for using metal hoe on beach. Associated Press

[teklord]

An Alabama youth minister was fined $25 for using a metal garden hoe to dig in the sand with his 7-year old son while on spring break in Panama City Beach Florida. The officer told them they could not use metal tools on the beach. The law was adopted after a rowdy 2015 spring break and was designed to protect against sexual assaults.

Bring a plastic scoop?

Tek

 

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[SteveOrygun]

Tom, where does it say he didn't? Only an idiot asks a Cop to cite the law instead of doing as their told. You take it up with the JUDGE, who actually has the POWER to let you slide, or take your money. RESPECT the police, and they USUALLY cut you slack! I would LOVE to see the police reports on this!

What planet are you living on?

 

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[Oddjob]

I do not see what the fuss is about, a police officer made an attempt to tell an adult how to comply with the law, the adult did not wish to comply, officer followed protocol and brought in someone else due to the reaction the adult had and based on past reasons the law was put in place.

Then when it was all over with handed out a very liberal fine, but could have taken it up to 500 bucks and some jail time.

Naturally cop haters and libs will always have to disagree and turn it into something it is not as if the kid was a victim of a hate crime and police brutality.

I hope that the kid learned from this because clearly the father who is an adult is too far gone to learn.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

What planet are you living on?

It's not that the "attitude" that Terry imagined DIDN'T occur. Perhaps, yes, the man was, as he says "combative" blah blah. But after reading Terry's post, I went back and read the news clip several more times, and .... that simply wasn't there. It didn't say either way. So I just questioned why is it that we (he) makes the assumption ? Because I had read it with another mental picture, of the fellow asking (nicely perhaps even) "where is that written?".

I mean, let's be real here: digging sand-castles is a right-of-passage for little kids. And let's be real: Some cops (they're only human) have been known to ... uh ... be "over-zealous" or even "in your face" (not all , but ... just sayin')

.... the adult did not wish to comply, ....

I didn't see it in that light. Perhaps the adult was MORE THAN WILLING to "comply". Provided, of course, that there was an actual law that said such a thing. Because, since when has "digging in the sand more than 2 ft." EVER been "against the law" ? And what the heck does plastic vs metal kid's play shovel ever make a bit of difference ? Can you blame the "adult" for having been a little bit questioning of this ? And that "questioning" could have been polite. And , upon knowledge that this is not made up stuff, perhaps that adult would be more-than willing.

.... Naturally cop haters and libs will always have to disagree ...

It is possible to be very respectful of cops, and also , to engage them in conversation at the same time.

 

[ChampFerguson/TN]

...It is possible to be very respectful of cops, and also , to engage them in conversation at the same time.

 

[Terry Soloman]

What planet are you living on?

Earth. Come visit sometime!

 

[Oddjob]

I didn't see it in that light. Perhaps the adult was MORE THAN WILLING to "comply". Provided, of course, that there was an actual law that said such a thing. Because, since when has "digging in the sand more than 2 ft." EVER been "against the law" ? And what the heck does plastic vs metal kid's play shovel ever make a bit of difference ? Can you blame the "adult" for having been a little bit questioning of this ? And that "questioning" could have been polite. And , upon knowledge that this is not made up stuff, perhaps that adult would be more-than willing.

Oh so now it is about the size of the hole and not the tool used? If not then why bother stating it?

Kids metal shovel, well since that was not the case and thus far such a case has not been mentioned then exactly how does this directly apply to this case?

But I am 100% certain that in this day and age if this man had been victimized in any way at all it would have been caught on camera and would already be turned into something that it is not. Thus far the only few who question the law existence (which can be looked up), the officers intent, manner or professionalism are those who where not there, those who did not see it, and the supposed victim (the adult) has no proof at all.

Now Federal, State, County and Local officers are screened and trained a great deal to ensure they can enforce the law. This adult can naturally fight it in court, but I doubt seriously the Good Minister does not want that body cam footage leaked out to the public. However I am sure it will catch enough attention and someone will file a FOIA request for the footage and drop it on the net.

It has been my professional experience that when something so minor is dramatized by either side of the law then those creating the drama are doing it to covers up their own faults.

I just hope that the Ministers child learned something from his fathers experience in dealing with a LEO.

 

[Xraywolf]

Cops are due respect and immediate compliance in the vast majority of cases.
This is not a BLM activist refusing to comply after a drive by and high speed chase. The laws here are questionable but that in itself does nor matter, cops don't make the law they enforce them.
But there is no doubt these particular laws were and are highly obscure, probably very recent, and a citizen has every right to request an authoritative cite as to precisely what law they have violated - And if cops are ready to enforce it and hand out violations, then they damn well ought to be prepared to give a definitive cite on request.

As a side note, cops lying and abusing the badge is not exactly a rarity, ask me how I know.
Not a factor in this case but some are proposing that they are infallible demigods, mini dictators to be always and instantly obeyed in all circumstances without question by us fawning peons.
In cases of urgency, tensions or obvious illegal activity, yes they should be obeyed without question. In a setting like beach patrol involving a child and father, they should not be upset when some obscure, ridiculous ordinances are questioned, so long as its done in a civil manner.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... but I doubt seriously the Good Minister does not want that body cam footage leaked out to the public......

And, again, the news clip simply does not say anything about attitude or combative-ness. On either party's side. You're inferring. He may or may not have been out-of-line in his attitude. Why the assumption that he was ?

To illustrate, I will give you my own personal example: In about 1994, I was on a military base. It was open to the public. My wife and I were on some back country land to go to a place we were told was ideal to walk dogs at . We found a place to park, and were milling about our vehicle, getting ready to go for a hike in the area we'd been told. An MP vehicle came rolling up, and a cop got out and started yelling at us. Told us we were in an off-limits part of the base.

But I had the road map that was passed out at the entry gate, showing the roads that were open. And we had studiously abided by it. But the office was apparently bent out of shape on the location we'd parked at. Supposed to stay on paved roads. But we had parked on a chip-seal (poor-man's pavement) roadside. To which I tried to explain that it appeared "paved" to me. Each time I tried to address his questions and yelling, he'd change the subject and start yelling something else.

He then pulled a gun on us and ordered us back into our vehicle "with hands on the dash". MY WIFE WAS IN TEARS thinking we were about to die, and had done something horrible . I won't go into all the details (too lengthy for this post). He called for backups, and ... sheeesks, it was the biggest thing since Bonnie and Clyde ! Eventually we were escorted the mile or two back to the base exit gate. No tickets, no nothing. I was totally embarrassed. Because I'd been the one to tell my wife I knew the back-country, knew where we could go, etc....

The next day, I became so distraught over the officer's behavior, that I went to the head of the MP's. To file a complaint. They looked into it, and .... upon opening the man's file, found that he had a few other "gun-waving" incident/complaints. This was apparently the final straw. He was demoted from field work. He sued for re-instatement of his job status. So it went to military trial. Those of us who were victim's of his anger-problem, were called in to testify.

The bottom line is, he will never carry a gun again. He was relegated to a desk job for the rest of his life.

I bring in this example NOT to say that this was *necessarily* the case of the "good minister". But why oh why do we start with this assumption ? It is entirely possible that he had been calm and polite. And to be honest with you, SO TOO could the first cop have been "calm and polite". The fact of calling for backups doesn't necessarily mean there was a "fight going on". (or "combative" etc...). With the mere non-ability of the first cop to answer the question of "what law am I breaking question", they could have calmly called for the backups.

It's now as if we start with an assumption that ministers are all hell-raising combative bad-examples ? Why is that ? Perhaps he was just a normal Joe Blow ?

 

[Oddjob]

And, again, the news clip simply does not say anything about attitude or combative-ness. On either party's side. You're inferring. He may or may not have been out-of-line in his attitude. Why the assumption that he was ?

I bring in this example NOT to say that this was *necessarily* the case of the "good minister". But why oh why do we start with this assumption ? It is entirely possible that he had been calm and polite. And to be honest with you, SO TOO could the first cop have been "calm and polite". The fact of calling for backups doesn't necessarily mean there was a "fight going on". (or "combative" etc...). With the mere non-ability of the first cop to answer the question of "what law am I breaking question", they could have calmly called for the backups.

It's now as if we start with an assumption that ministers are all hell-raising combative bad-examples ? Why is that ? Perhaps he was just a normal Joe Blow ?

Yeah sure, I will answer you, figured that is exactly how you would answer a question your self, with other questions.

So, no assumptions on my side at all, never once said he was combative, he failed to comply as reported. It is clear and simple.

Calling for backup, likely protocol with that department as I have stated before.

In regards as to why you assume ministers are all hell raising combative bad examples, I have no idea. That is your personal choice that only you can answer.

 

[cudamark]

I'm a strong law and order kind of guy too, but, that doesn't mean that cops shouldn't use a bit of discretion. On most infractions, there's room for interpretation and leniency. If not, we're all going to get citations for digging in our parks because, if you read the codes by strictly the letter of the law, we're disturbing, cutting, digging, etc. All parks I know of have these prohibitions to keep knuckleheads from taking the landscaping home to furnish their yards. Strictly speaking, this applies to us too, even though these laws were passed long before detectors were in use. A bit of common sense and courtesy would go a long way here. As I mentioned before, a simple explanation of the ordinance and a warning should have been enough in this digging at the beach fiasco. An escalation from either side just makes the situation worse and amps up the egos even further. I would like to hear from other witnesses to the event before I would blame or condemn either side.

 

[lookindown]

Oh so now it is about the size of the hole and not the tool used? If not then why bother stating it?

Kids metal shovel, well since that was not the case and thus far such a case has not been mentioned then exactly how does this directly apply to this case?

But I am 100% certain that in this day and age if this man had been victimized in any way at all it would have been caught on camera and would already be turned into something that it is not. Thus far the only few who question the law existence (which can be looked up), the officers intent, manner or professionalism are those who where not there, those who did not see it, and the supposed victim (the adult) has no proof at all.

Now Federal, State, County and Local officers are screened and trained a great deal to ensure they can enforce the law. This adult can naturally fight it in court, but I doubt seriously the Good Minister does not want that body cam footage leaked out to the public. However I am sure it will catch enough attention and someone will file a FOIA request for the footage and drop it on the net.

It has been my professional experience that when something so minor is dramatized by either side of the law then those creating the drama are doing it to covers up their own faults.

I just hope that the Ministers child learned something from his fathers experience in dealing with a LEO.

The cops told him to fill the hole and they would let it go...his hole wasn't illegal, his metal tool was....and it was a kids metal tool...you must not have read every post.

 

[Oddjob]

The cops told him to fill the hole and they would let it go...his hole wasn't illegal, his metal tool was....and it was a kids metal tool...you must not have read every post.

Yes I do read every post, does not mean every post on here is a fact of what happened, but thank you for your concern.

Yes a report says the cop told him to fill in his hole. I do not know if that beach has a law on how deep a hole can be. However since you say his hole was not illegal you clearly have insight on this, please explain to us all what the laws on that beach are in regards to this.

Can you show me in the report where it says it was a kids metal tool? The article at the start of the thread mentioned metal garden hoe.

 

[Terry Soloman]

I would love to see the father's arrest record. Just sayin'.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Here is the law....Ord1301RevisedChapter7Beac.pdf

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Thanx TH'r. Our sand scoops are not the "type ordinarily sold in hardware stores", nor do we dig over 2 ft. deep. Thus none of this bruhaha applies to the act of metal detecting, nor to our scoops.

As for the OP of this thread, I assumed the kid was using the kid's toy variety shovel. Perhaps the family had bought a standard shovel. Of (gasp) the "type sold in hardware stores" ?

 

[Xraywolf]

Here is the law....Ord1301RevisedChapter7Beac.pdf


View attachment 1445095

A hoe is not a shovel, maybe a technicality for this guy.
I will say that its tough to see why anyone would take the trouble to bring a long handled hoe to a beach, if such it was. Would probably be easier and more efficient scooping sand out with your bare hands than using a hoe, can't help but think some terminology is in error here somewhere.

 

[Terry Soloman]

Again, if "Dad" hadn't been a "donkey" to the police officer, this thread would not exist.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Again, if "Dad" hadn't been a "donkey" to the police officer, this thread would not exist. [emoji106]

100% correct.

Sent from my P008 using Tapatalk

 

[Tom_in_CA]

100% repetitive, unsubstantiated drivel.

Yes. Why the continued assumption? The article simply did not say either way. It is conceivable to be nice and polite when talking to a police officer, asking what the law is.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

100% repetitive, unsubstantiated drivel.

Remember this is not the politics forum so please be polite in replies per our rules...Thanks

Multiple articles repeat same theme, police were not going to give him a ticket but he refused multiple times to fill hole in, instead demanding they show him the law, he got just what he was asking for. "Police Chief Drew Whitman says Rylee was given opportunities to fill in the hole but refused. "