My Dowsing Test

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI ROOM
isn't it about time to discuss Dowsing rationally and try to suggest ways to improve it instead of just mocking, ridiculing it and some of it's posters.etc ?

Even Carl, one of the most devoted attackers, has admitted to dowsing, so since there is no longer a question of it's existence, why don't we start on ways to improve it.

As to how it works , that is outside of any of our indvidual expertise, so put that aside, and discuss dowsing rationally

Tropical Tramp

 

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[Oroblanco]

Greetings,

That seems like a fair way to exclude any underground wires/springs etc by just checking it first. Next problem is how to differentiate between "hits" from water versus gold, silver etc?

Carl you didn't say if I lose (miss) if I would have to pay that $25k? I am NOT that confident to put up that much money! I did go check out that million dollar challenge, one little problem is you must travel to and from at your own expense - seems a very reasonable rule but I am just too danged poor to travel - and not sure that just dowsing water in buckets would be accepted as some kind of "supernatural power" especially since it might be just an electrical phenomenon.

As to how it works, I have posted my own theory (some time ago) of what is happening and have thought of a way to test it. If it is electricity-based, then it should not matter whether the rods are held by a human being or a robot set of arms. May have to experiment along this line. Just a theory but I am willing to bet that little device used by 'ghost-hunters' the EMF meter (electro-magnetic field detector, picks up electrical fields) would be able to locate water/water lines in the very same way.

Anyway for those who do not believe it works, no problem - simply don't waste your time doing it; I too did NOT believe it could work until a friend showed me, on water lines on a parcel of land he was considering purchase of. Some things do have to be "seen" to be believed after all.

Oroblanco.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Anyway for those who do not believe it works, no problem - simply don't waste your time doing it; I too did NOT believe it could work until a friend showed me, on water lines on a parcel of land he was considering purchase of. Some things do have to be "seen" to be believed after all.

Oroblanco.

Well stated!

 

[xupz]

Anyway for those who do not believe it works, no problem - simply don't waste your time doing it; I too did NOT believe it could work until a friend showed me, on water lines on a parcel of land he was considering purchase of. Some things do have to be "seen" to be believed after all.

Oroblanco.

What people "see" isn't the same as what's actually happening. I propose your friend already KNEW where the lines were, had experience that would indicate the most probable location of the lines, or other indicators which fueled his ideomotor response. He believes so blindly that the "dowsing" was what found the lines, but I contend he already had the experience to make a much better determination without having to dowse anything. You "saw" the rods cross or what not and the lines turned out to be there so that's all the proof you needed, combined with his deep delusional although persuasive belief in dowsing, bam hooked.

Here's a video someone posted:



You can clearly SEE them dowsing just fine, pulling up all kinds of old stuff. What you didn't see in the video WAS caught on camera at the end. The dowser was palming the stuff he was finding. Whoops!

 

[Jean310]

Anyway for those who do not believe it works, no problem - simply don't waste your time doing it; I too did NOT believe it could work until a friend showed me, on water lines on a parcel of land he was considering purchase of. Some things do have to be "seen" to be believed after all.

Oroblanco.

What people "see" isn't the same as what's actually happening. I propose your friend already KNEW where the lines were, had experience that would indicate the most probable location of the lines, or other indicators which fueled his ideomotor response. He believes so blindly that the "dowsing" was what found the lines, but I contend he already had the experience to make a much better determination without having to dowse anything. You "saw" the rods cross or what not and the lines turned out to be there so that's all the proof you needed, combined with his deep delusional although persuasive belief in dowsing, bam hooked.

Here's a video someone posted:



You can clearly SEE them dowsing just fine, pulling up all kinds of old stuff. What you didn't see in the video WAS caught on camera at the end. The dowser was palming the stuff he was finding. Whoops!

Caught him red-handed....... as it were.

Be a little careful though, Louis Matacia is one of Dell's buddies.

Jean

 

[xupz]

"Guilty until proven innocent". Dell

How amusing. Dowsers expect skeptics to believe their ridiculous claims without them proving anything, much like "dowsing works until proven it doesn't", seems "guilty until proven innocent" is EXACTLY the dowser philosophy.

 

[Jean310]

I enjoyed the video, and I am very glad the cheater was exposed. But as usual Jean, your imagined facts are delusional. The video did not show Louis Matacia cheating. I do not know Louis Matacia. I have never met him.

Nor do I cater to your philosphy, "Guilty until proven innocent". Dell

Facts are facts, and the video does not lie, nor is it a delusion.

Louis Matacia was doing the narration to go along with the video. He was identified on the video and had to know what the dowser was doing. He was an accomplice to the scam.

If dowsing really works, like the video was attempting to portray; why would the dowser have to cheat?

The plain fact is, dowsing doesn't work that way, and never has.

Did I write some where, the phrase "guilty until proven innocent", and call it my philosophy? Don't put words in my mouth, Dell.

Jean

 

[Carl-NC]

Here's a video someone posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8BxmXHRaBI

You can clearly SEE them dowsing just fine, pulling up all kinds of old stuff. What you didn't see in the video WAS caught on camera at the end. The dowser was palming the stuff he was finding. Whoops!

WOW.

As I watched the video the very first time through, I caught BOTH instances of palming. It was also obvious with the Indian Head penny.

Second thing to note, is that the coins came out very clean. This is highly unusual for IH pennies. And the rear of the Minie ball was cleaned out nicely. Every one I've ever dug took some effort to clean out.

Third thing to note, is that when David Gowman is using a bobber over the map, you can clearly see that his hand begins moving up and down BEFORE the bobber does. This is not even ideomotor, it is intentional fakery.

Regarding Gowman, Matacia states, "Never have we gone out that we didn't find treasure." Obviously, the whole thing is a sham, and Matacia is knee-deep.

- Carl

 

[Oroblanco]

Greetings,

xupz wrote:I propose your friend already KNEW where the lines were, had experience that would indicate the most probable location of the lines, or other indicators which fueled his ideomotor response. He believes so blindly that the "dowsing" was what found the lines, but I contend he already had the experience to make a much better determination without having to dowse anything.

Well that is an un-founded claim if I ever saw one - a great contention except that you were not there my friend, and my dowsing friend had not even seen this parcel before in his life. What is so "magic-mystical" about dowsing water lines? Water has an electrical charge, which is measurably different from surrounding soil; I have posted this theory before but remember the old exhibit of a tesla coil which had a stack of tinfoil pie plates stacked on top? At first the pie plates are attracted to the coil, by the difference in electrical charge - as they pick up the identical charge, they are repelled from each other and fly off one at a time. With dowsing for water, using brass rods, we are only seeing a similar reaction which is not "magical" in any way (if we simply remember basic electricity laws) - at first the two metal conductors are attracted to the charge of the water so "cross" over the closest attraction point, as they pick up the charge they are repelled from each other and point away from each other (remember in electricity as in magnetism opposites attract, similar charges repel) and align with the "flow" of the electrical charge they are picking up, water. Anyway when we dug where those rods indicated, we found the water lines. Magic? Hardly. Just simple basic laws of electricity. I am willing to bet a dollar to a donut that those little gadgets used by "ghost hunters" - EMF detectors (electro-magnetic field detectors, which pick up the faint electrical fields put off by electrical charges) would function as "water dowsers", with the same results.

Oroblanco

 

[Jean310]

Here's a video someone posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8BxmXHRaBI

You can clearly SEE them dowsing just fine, pulling up all kinds of old stuff. What you didn't see in the video WAS caught on camera at the end. The dowser was palming the stuff he was finding. Whoops!

WOW.

As I watched the video the very first time through, I caught BOTH instances of palming. It was also obvious with the Indian Head penny.

Second thing to note, is that the coins came out very clean. This is highly unusual for IH pennies. And the rear of the Minie ball was cleaned out nicely. Every one I've ever dug took some effort to clean out.

Third thing to note, is that when David Gowman is using a bobber over the map, you can clearly see that his hand begins moving up and down BEFORE the bobber does. This is not even ideomotor, it is intentional fakery.

Regarding Gowman, Matacia states, "Never have we gone out that we didn't find treasure." Obviously, the whole thing is a sham, and Matacia is knee-deep.

- Carl

The bobber was an Aurameter, and yes I noticed also that an ideomotor response was not even involved, but rather intentional movement from the hand before the bobber started to move. Isn't it amazing the lengths that some dowsers will go to in order to lie to themselves and those around them.

Jean

 

[Carl-NC]

Carl you didn't say if I lose (miss) if I would have to pay that $25k?

Of course not. That would be silly.

I did go check out that million dollar challenge, one little problem is you must travel to and from at your own expense - seems a very reasonable rule but I am just too danged poor to travel - and not sure that just dowsing water in buckets would be accepted as some kind of "supernatural power" especially since it might be just an electrical phenomenon.

Yes, that would be accepted. For the preliminary test, usually you don't have to travel.

As to how it works, I have posted my own theory (some time ago) of what is happening and have thought of a way to test it. If it is electricity-based, then it should not matter whether the rods are held by a human being or a robot set of arms.

Put a dowsing rod in a vise... move a bucket of water around, and see if the rod tracks it. Every other dowser, and non-dowser, on this forum can already tell you what won't happen.

May have to experiment along this line. Just a theory but I am willing to bet that little device used by 'ghost-hunters' the EMF meter (electro-magnetic field detector, picks up electrical fields) would be able to locate water/water lines in the very same way.

You might then ask, "Why are there no water-pipe-detectors being marketed?" When I was a teenager, I worked for an irrigation company. Such a device would have been on every truck.

Some things do have to be "seen" to be believed after all.

A-yup.

BTW, many of your other questions are covered in my dowsing Q&A... also look at my reports on those unameable dowsing devices as to why this whole topic matters.

- Carl

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning room
Sheehs I leave for a few days to conclude a mining contract that may well give me a few million over the next few years and when I return I see that the mice have come out of their holes and are running amok, squealing and fighting over "look at me, see how brilliant I am".

However, I still see that not one of them has even attempted to address the data in the now infamous posts #6 & #88. So the obvious conclusion must be that they simply cannot, so they just run away from it by ignoring it or simply using the "ignore " button, which is exactly the same thing..

I will, go over the past few days posts and address those that are not too silly or plain dumb. <- (polite)

As for my statement in post #1120 in the 1,000,000 series , no-one seems to have understood what I was saying apparently from the recent posts.

Carl very clearly wrote "Of course I can dowse! It's quite easy, just not very useful. - carl". In any court of Law that I have ever attended or practiced that is a complete, legally binding, statement with no modifiers or ambiguities.

He flatly states that dowsing exists, so all that the incredibly flawed statistic tests, or any of the others can show is only what that "particular dowsers ABILITIES are", nothing more.
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Operational definitions are inherently difficult — arguably, even impossible — to apply to mental entities, because these latter are generally understood to be accessible only to the individual who experiences them and are therefore not independently verifiable."
=================
Of course I can dowse! It's quite easy, just not very useful. - Carl
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Tropical Tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good morning room
Sheehs I leave for a few days to conclude a mining contract that may well give me a few million over the next few years and when I return I see that the mice have come out of their holes and are running amok, squealing and fighting over "look at me, see how brilliant I am".

However, I still see that not one of them has even attempted to address the data in the now infamous posts #6 & #88. So the obvious conclusion must be that they simply cannot, so they just run away from it by ignoring it or simply using the "ignore " button, which is exactly the same thing..

I will, go over the past few days posts and address those that are not too silly or plain dumb. <- (polite)

As for my statement in post #1120 in the 1,000,000 series , no-one seems to have understood what I was saying apparently from the recent posts.

Carl very clearly wrote "Of course I can dowse! It's quite easy, just not very useful. - carl". In any court of Law that I have ever attended or practiced that is a complete, legally binding, statement with no modifiers or ambiguities.

He flatly states that dowsing exists, so all that the incredibly flawed statistic tests, or any of the others can show is only what that "particular dowsers ABILITIES are", nothing more.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Operational definitions are inherently difficult — arguably, even impossible — to apply to mental entities, because these latter are generally understood to be accessible only to the individual who experiences them and are therefore not independently verifiable."
=================
Of course I can dowse! It's quite easy, just not very useful. - Carl
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\


Tropical Tramp

 

[Oroblanco]

SWR wrote: What is more unfounded is a potential property buyer digging up the ground, looking for water pipes.

Well he did end up buying the lot, wanted to know if it even had water lines as it was an area where no development (apparently a planned development that never worked) had been done in many years. As the county owned it, they had no problem.

I think you meant the Van de Graaff generator, invented by Robert Jemison Van de Graaff in 1931 (Tesla sat-out on this one). Whole different beast than the Tesla Coil Wink


Yes, correct, but not entirely a 'different beast' in that the de Graaf generates high voltages (static) which is what the Tesla coil does, only not static. Both generate high voltages. I would bet that a Wimshurst would work the same way - the whole point was the electrical charge, or did you miss my point?

Carl-NC wrote: Put a dowsing rod in a vise... move a bucket of water around, and see if the rod tracks it. Every other dowser, and non-dowser, on this forum can already tell you what won't happen.

Well heck the rods would have to be in a non-conducting vise or padded so as to not be 'grounded' and be free to move - would a bucket of water have enough of an electrical charge to cause the effect?

You might then ask, "Why are there no water-pipe-detectors being marketed?"
As already mentioned, yes they do sell them - Black & Decker and Bosch make models I have seen and they do work. Not sure how long they have been around though.

Oroblanco

 

[Carl-NC]

Carl-NC wrote: Put a dowsing rod in a vise... move a bucket of water around, and see if the rod tracks it. Every other dowser, and non-dowser, on this forum can already tell you what won't happen.

Well heck the rods would have to be in a non-conducting vise or padded so as to not be 'grounded' and be free to move - would a bucket of water have enough of an electrical charge to cause the effect?

I'll let RT, Art, Sandsted, Judy, or Dell answer this question. That way, you won't have to take my word for it. Or, you can look, and see for yourself.

- Carl

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

xupz link=topicHow amusing. Dowsers expect skeptics to believe their ridiculous claims without them proving anything, much like "dowsing works until proven it doesn't", seems "guilty until proven innocent" is EXACTLY the dowser philosophy.
***********
or that extremely flawed statistics can prove anything about dowsing or of any of the myriads of other influences on the human subconscious ?

 

[Oroblanco]

SWR wrote: (Please don’t start misquoting Albert Einstein, either)

Hah? Why should I misquote Einstein? I was only proposing a possible explanation of what happens. Good luck and good hunting to you, hope you find the treasure that you seek.

Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

No apol-s necessary, just threw me with that one - I was not aware of any Einstein statements that would be helpful to "prove" dowsing works.

Being skeptical of claims is a healthy thing. However consider that people were claiming that dogs could "smell" a cancer growth on a human being with nearly 100 percent accuracy, and of course science refused to accept it until tests proved it was true, and instead of training dogs to detect cancer we had people out trying to re-invent the scent-differentiating abilities of a dog's nose with electronics - yet some people will instantly put faith in the electronic cancer-sniffer, the very same folks who would not believe that a dog could detect it.

With some of the dowsing claims it is tough to believe without seeing it - perhaps with these claims (like being able to locate a buried treasure from a map) the dowser is really doing what the Army would call "remote viewing" - and remember the US Army had its' own remote viewing project, which had a success rate between 60 and 80 percent. As to how on earth that might work, in scientific terms, I have no idea and no proposed answer. For finding water or buried electrical lines, I still think the detection is really an ordinary electrical reaction to an electrical charge and not any kind of supernatural powers involved.

Oroblanco

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey SWR....Your telling us that you have dug every signal that you have ever found? I know for a fact that electicity puts out a signal that is a cicular pattern and is stronger than all the others I have located. I know for a fact that running water in a pipe is a lot easier to detect than when it is no running. Take a set of rods and try to walk under a 110,000 volt power line. When the rods close way before you get under the lines let them touch each other. Then come back and tell me that Ideomotor Response closed the rods. Oroblanco....I don't know about the field from water but the ones around electric lines are different....Art

 

[Oroblanco]

Hi Art - I could be way-way off and completely wrong, just that seems to make sense to me. All things have an electrical charge, whether positive or negative - and electrical charges are similar to magnetic charges - opposites attract, alikes repel. Seems logical to me! It is funny too - there are folks who don't believe metal detectors work, since after all, no buried coin is giving off any "lines" - yet the electronic gizmo does work. Is dowsing so different?

Oroblanco