Pirate Chest: When to give up

Bigdogdad

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I joined Treasurenet to tell some of my story and try to get help. I recieved a number of replies, both on the thread and thru PM (personal messages). Some of the replies were negative and some were supportive. A TN member told some of my story to an investor. The investor contacted me and asked me a lot of questions as to why I thought I knew the locations of some pirate chests. I told him just about everything I knew and he seemed satisfied with my answers. That was 5 days ago.
He sent me a contract that was between his group, the property owners and myself. I met with my lawyer and he approved it. The investor planned to hire a professional metal detectorist to determine if there was anything worth digging up. Things moved very fast and I met the property owner and the detectorist (I think that is a word) yesterday at 7 a.m. at the digsite. He had equipment that cost a lot of money and I think he charged a lot of money. He travels the world doing this. After 3 hours or so the detectorist came to the conclusion that there were possibly chests buried in the past but they are no longer there.
The investor had flown in the day before and showed up at noon. He was dissappointed in the outcome and I have a feeling he may not have been impressed with me. I had some other locations that I wanted to share with him but I think he had lost faith in me. We parted ways and I went home. This would be the end of a dig like this for some people, but not me.
I first became involved in this site in 1987. An 87 year old dowser had told me about the chests and I immediately became somewhat obsessed with trying to dig them up. I had lined up a proffesional digging crew to do the excavating, but they backed out at the last minute. I rented a backhoe and tried to do it myself. I tore up a huge commercial septic system and could not get to the chests. I dug a pretty deep hole which is hard to do in Florida as the water table is usually near the surface. I had a pump running to keep the water out of the hole.
I had to rebuild the septic system with only help from my wife. The guys who helped me during the dig decided they were too busy to help even though they had said they would. I had to borrow the money from my mother to pay for all the gravel, sand, pipes, mesh, backhoe re-rental etc, to fix everything. This dig and the lack of finding anything caused most of my friends and all of my relatives to lose any faith they had in me or my treasure story. I was absolutely convinced that there was at least one chest on this property but I did not know what to do next.
I decided to go and get the dowser, who lived 600 miles from my home, and drive him anywhere he wanted to go. Over the course of about 5 years I took him on many trips going as far south as Alligator Alley and as far north as Pennsylvania. We had many adventures. He had 35 years worth of dowsing stories to tell me. When I met him he was suffering from pancreatic cancer. With the help of medication and being able to look forward to our trips together he was able to keep going.
I wanted to be able to find the chest for him before he died. I believe that he found many things for people, some very valuable and some not. We rarely got the chance to do any serious digging as he would not do anything without property owners permission which is not that easy to get. I will not go into any detail at this time about the other treasures other than to say we met because of the U-853.
In 1992 we attempted to dig up the chest by hand digging and laying a concrete block well down to the chest. We got as far as 15 feet and then the well got hung up on a mud hog hose that we could not pull out of the ground from the first dig. The well would fill up with water from the septic system and I ended up scuba diving in it. My hands, eyes, and ears became infected. Almost everyone involved felt we should give up. I was determined to keep going but we were run off by Hurricane Andrew. A week later the county told me we had to fill the well in.
The story could have ended there. I am sure that the serious treasure hunters that might read this will understand being obsessed with a particular treasure and not being able to give up. People will think your crazy and maybe you are.
The old dowser died shortly after this dig. His family told me that our adventures added years to his life. I have always felt bad that I let him down. He was willing to share much knowledge about life, dowsing and his many treasure stories while we drove thousands upom thousands of miles together.
Twenty years have now passed. There have been new dowsers and new adventures. I still have not found my treasure. I will blame it all on myself. I think the treasures are waiting to be found.
I have kept myself busy with many other hobbies, inventions, great ideas (or so I thought) but treasure is always on my mind. I think about it off and on everyday. I would have to say it has just about driven me crazy. I am absolutely convinced that I know the location of hundreds of millions in gold, diamonds and silver. At the same time I can hardly keep up with my bills and have just about pissed off my wife of 36 years to the breaking point. The saving grace is that she believes in the treasures too. Maybe that has not been a good thing. Either way we our still together.
A year ago I put most of my stories together and am planning to put it out as an E-book. I have pictures and videos of all the best stuff. I think it would make a wonderful and inspiring story for the kids of today.
I am looking for anyone that thinks they have a proven dowser that they completely believe in to put in their two cents on the pirate chests dig. I will send the right people a photo to dowse or if they are willing to come to south Florida I will take them to the chest site. I have permission from the owners to attempt to dig up any and all chests.
If someone wants to back this whole adventure you can PM for more details.
Just so you will understand my obsession I have to explain something. Around 1983-1984, before I knew him, the dowser that I took to all those places stood on the bow of one of Mel Fisher's boats, swung his pendulum and led them to the pile of gold from the Atocha. Hard to believe but true.
I know I should probably give up on this dig as the proffessional metal detectorist says there are no chests there. I have had at least 14 dowsers tell me that the chest and maybe others are still there. Maybe we are all wrong. Should I give up? What would you do? The first picture is from the first dig. That is the dowser pointing his pendulum towards where he says the chest is. The second picture is the hand dug well.
 

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TheHarleyMan2

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If it was me and I was convinced that there were chests buried there. I would do everything possible and dig down as deep as I could even if it meant digging to China to get the chests.

I do have a question and don't take it bad or the wrong way. If you and the well known dowser drove all over to venture and search for treasures over a period of years before he passed away. What treasures, cache, or valuables that he helped dowse and you both recovered?
 
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Bigdogdad

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You should be able to see by my pictures that I did dig pretty darn deep. Heavy objects (gold) have been known to sink here in Florida, especially when they are 100' from the bay. I do not want to dig again until we know exactly where to dig and how deep we will have to dig. As much as I beleive dowsers, they are not even close to 100% accurate, but then again I do not think all electronic machines are 100% either.
I did do some digging at some of the sites that the dowser and I went to while he was alive. I was usually in a hurry and that is not the way to do it. I decided early on that I would add the new locations to an ever growing list that we/I would get to "someday". Time flies. Many somedays have passed. New dowsers and sites have come into play. I have been and am continuing to go after one of the better ones. If I really knew what I was doing and put in enough time I could probably be successful. I am getting more serious now and that is why I have come to treasurenet.
 
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Bigdogdad

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Where does it say I am giving up? I asked at what point would anyone else give up. Yes, I do trust certain dowsers up to a point. If you can find a way to test them and they pass the tests would you not then trust them? If you bring in as many dowsers as you can find and get the same results would you start to think there may be something there?
Heres the deal. I think the majority of gold that has been hidden may have already been found. People have been looking for years and dowsers have been around for thousands of years. If a treasure was easy to get to it is already gone. Everyone today wants easy quick success. It does not work that way. How many people on here have dug a really big deep hole by hand? Probably not very many. They would rather sit in front of their computer fantasizing about it. I have dug to the point where I have almost been killed in the process.
It is easy to critisize others. There is a lot of information that I have that I am not going to put on here. I am on here more for my own and others amusement. I would like some good help. The investor that came forward this week was expecting quick easy success. He and I spent a total of about 20 minutes together. He based all his conclusions on the detecting efforts of one guy. Maybe they are right and I am wrong. Maybe there is nothing there.
Jason you are right, they did not need all the equipment to do things years ago that we now have. But we do have the equipment now. What they had years ago was more time on their hands. Everyone today is in a big hurry.

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Mackaydon

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This reads like the douser found your septic system!!
Hopefully the 'professional metal detectorist' used more than a 'regular' metal detector. Did he use a "Two box" machine or a Pulse Inductive deep search machine? Because of the high water table, ground penetrating radar might not work well (deeply) in your 'wet' soil, but it would be another option.
Don.....
 

bsloan

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Let me preface this with saying I would never intentionally disrespect anyone on this site. If you believe the chests are there, go for it till you can't go any more, and I wish you the best of luck. I would really love to read about your adventures. As far as things sinking in the Florida soil, I can relate. I have found 40 year old beer cans at 18 inches in a padture that has not had a plow in it since the 40's.
Afar as a professional detectorist, if you get paid to do a job, doesn't that kind of make you a professional? I wish your investor would have gotten more "experts" to check the area.

Again, best of luck in the hunt, and if I ever get in the position to help, I'll drop you a line.

Bill
 

Jason in Enid

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If you can find a dowser that can show success, you will be a billionaire. but then why would HE need you? I am willing bury my entire collection of POUNDS of silver in a wheat field. Any dowser who can walk to it and dig it up can keep it. I'd even be willing to send a Morgan dollar to anyone who can send me a pic of a map with an "X" over the quarter mile section I bury it in. I doubt I would have to lose any of my precious, beautiful silver hoard.

The amazing Randy has a standing offer of $1M to any dowser who can show any skill above the level or pure chance.

I dug a fair number of 5x6x3 fighting positions in my life. It takes 2 guys a lot of hours to get it done. I have also hand dug a 40 foot water well. That took a while summer and I won't ever do that again!

As long as you aren't hurting anyone in your quest for your treasure, then go for it!
 

ivan salis

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ever heard of luis aury --the famous pirate -of amelia island florida? ::) in oct f 1817 he sold 95 slaves taken of a spanish slaving vessel one of his pirate captains captured to william bowden of georgia for $60,000 at amelia island --in dec of 1817 us military force captured him on amelia island * --the money was not found on his vessel nor upon his person -- since he had total control of the island and everything on it --he had nothing to "spend" money on especially not to the tune of $1,000 a day (in 1817 thats a butt load of money)and thats how much he would have had to spend to get rid of the $60,000 dollars in about two months time.--these funds actually existed to according to historical court records -- the court fight that occured when the us (georgia) military took the slaves away from bowden as "illegally" smuggled in african slaves --there was a 1803 law passed in america that prohibted any farther importation of slaves from africa into the USA * --current slaves imported before 1803 and their off spring could be dealt in but no "new slaves" were to be obtained from africa * -- bowden was in "western florida" at the time of the slaves capture by georgia military forces and tried to say he was never going to bring them into the usa and that he bought the slaves off of luis aury at a "legal sale" on amelia island that aury had via his letter of marquee issued ny mexico and venazula to conduct war upon the spanish--the US georgia courts held that aurys letters of marquee were not valid thus bowden had "no legal claim of ownership"--the original spanish ship owner who owned both the ship and the 95 slaves that aury captured also sued the state of georgia for failing to return "his" property to him upon discovery --the govenor of georgia had sold some of the 95 slaves and kept some of them , and freed others --the spanish slave ship owner said they had no right to deal with "his property" and that once duiscovered , they should have been returned to him.
 

TheHarleyMan2

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Jason in Enid said:
I am willing bury my entire collection of POUNDS of silver in a wheat field. Any dowser who can walk to it and dig it up can keep it. I'd even be willing to send a Morgan dollar to anyone who can send me a pic of a map with an "X" over the quarter mile section I bury it in. I doubt I would have to lose any of my precious, beautiful silver hoard.

WHEN and WHERE can I start!!!! Heck I might have to take up dowsing!! :laughing7:
 

Jason in Enid

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TheHarleyMan2 said:
Jason in Enid said:
I am willing bury my entire collection of POUNDS of silver in a wheat field. Any dowser who can walk to it and dig it up can keep it. I'd even be willing to send a Morgan dollar to anyone who can send me a pic of a map with an "X" over the quarter mile section I bury it in. I doubt I would have to lose any of my precious, beautiful silver hoard.

WHEN and WHERE can I start!!!! Heck I might have to take up dowsing!! :laughing7:

Heck, if you're a good dowser you should be able to put an X on the bank they're sitting in right now!

Oh, and no bulldozers in the search of the field! :laughing7:
 

okiedowser

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Jason in Enid said:
If you can find a dowser that can show success, you will be a billionaire. but then why would HE need you? I am willing bury my entire collection of POUNDS of silver in a wheat field. Any dowser who can walk to it and dig it up can keep it. I'd even be willing to send a Morgan dollar to anyone who can send me a pic of a map with an "X" over the quarter mile section I bury it in. I doubt I would have to lose any of my precious, beautiful silver hoard.

The amazing Randy has a standing offer of $1M to any dowser who can show any skill above the level or pure chance.

I dug a fair number of 5x6x3 fighting positions in my life. It takes 2 guys a lot of hours to get it done. I have also hand dug a 40 foot water well. That took a while summer and I won't ever do that again!

As long as you aren't hurting anyone in your quest for your treasure, then go for it!

well jason i don't want your silver, but if you want to see if it's work's yes i do a test for you to show it's work's......you send a picture of area you want to buried it in, then buried it in same area, and i'll put a X on it for you.....ha and you want lose any silver. only thing i ask is... you don't put it in a seal glass jar, are seal it in PVC ......you can either pm me are........ okiedowser@hotmail.com
 

Jason in Enid

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How about telling me where it's at NOW? It's not sealed in any type of container at the moment. Seems you should be able to find it. Just print your own map of Oklahoma.
 

okiedowser

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Jason in Enid said:
How about telling me where it's at NOW? It's not sealed in any type of container at the moment. Seems you should be able to find it. Just print your own map of Oklahoma.
[/quote


i work 100% with what on the film, that why i asked for picture's , we not talking mental dowsing.....i all ready dug my share holes on that....................... and yes there would have been a x on you silver but sense you don't want the TEST you never know........simple test 100% on target........you miss a new way of treasure hunting.
 

teleprospector

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Bigdogdad said:
I joined Treasurenet to tell some of my story and try to get help. I recieved a number of replies, both on the thread and thru PM (personal messages). Some of the replies were negative and some were supportive. A TN member told some of my story to an investor. The investor contacted me and asked me a lot of questions as to why I thought I knew the locations of some pirate chests. I told him just about everything I knew and he seemed satisfied with my answers. That was 5 days ago.
He sent me a contract that was between his group, the property owners and myself. I met with my lawyer and he approved it. The investor planned to hire a professional metal detectorist to determine if there was anything worth digging up. Things moved very fast and I met the property owner and the detectorist (I think that is a word) yesterday at 7 a.m. at the digsite. He had equipment that cost a lot of money and I think he charged a lot of money. He travels the world doing this. After 3 hours or so the detectorist came to the conclusion that there were possibly chests buried in the past but they are no longer there.
The investor had flown in the day before and showed up at noon. He was dissappointed in the outcome and I have a feeling he may not have been impressed with me. I had some other locations that I wanted to share with him but I think he had lost faith in me. We parted ways and I went home. This would be the end of a dig like this for some people, but not me.
I first became involved in this site in 1987. An 87 year old dowser had told me about the chests and I immediately became somewhat obsessed with trying to dig them up. I had lined up a proffesional digging crew to do the excavating, but they backed out at the last minute. I rented a backhoe and tried to do it myself. I tore up a huge commercial septic system and could not get to the chests. I dug a pretty deep hole which is hard to do in Florida as the water table is usually near the surface. I had a pump running to keep the water out of the hole.
I had to rebuild the septic system with only help from my wife. The guys who helped me during the dig decided they were too busy to help even though they had said they would. I had to borrow the money from my mother to pay for all the gravel, sand, pipes, mesh, backhoe re-rental etc, to fix everything. This dig and the lack of finding anything caused most of my friends and all of my relatives to lose any faith they had in me or my treasure story. I was absolutely convinced that there was at least one chest on this property but I did not know what to do next.
I decided to go and get the dowser, who lived 600 miles from my home, and drive him anywhere he wanted to go. Over the course of about 5 years I took him on many trips going as far south as Alligator Alley and as far north as Pennsylvania. We had many adventures. He had 35 years worth of dowsing stories to tell me. When I met him he was suffering from pancreatic cancer. With the help of medication and being able to look forward to our trips together he was able to keep going.
I wanted to be able to find the chest for him before he died. I believe that he found many things for people, some very valuable and some not. We rarely got the chance to do any serious digging as he would not do anything without property owners permission which is not that easy to get. I will not go into any detail at this time about the other treasures other than to say we met because of the U-853.
In 1992 we attempted to dig up the chest by hand digging and laying a concrete block well down to the chest. We got as far as 15 feet and then the well got hung up on a mud hog hose that we could not pull out of the ground from the first dig. The well would fill up with water from the septic system and I ended up scuba diving in it. My hands, eyes, and ears became infected. Almost everyone involved felt we should give up. I was determined to keep going but we were run off by Hurricane Andrew. A week later the county told me we had to fill the well in.
The story could have ended there. I am sure that the serious treasure hunters that might read this will understand being obsessed with a particular treasure and not being able to give up. People will think your crazy and maybe you are.
The old dowser died shortly after this dig. His family told me that our adventures added years to his life. I have always felt bad that I let him down. He was willing to share much knowledge about life, dowsing and his many treasure stories while we drove thousands upom thousands of miles together.
Twenty years have now passed. There have been new dowsers and new adventures. I still have not found my treasure. I will blame it all on myself. I think the treasures are waiting to be found.
I have kept myself busy with many other hobbies, inventions, great ideas (or so I thought) but treasure is always on my mind. I think about it off and on everyday. I would have to say it has just about driven me crazy. I am absolutely convinced that I know the location of hundreds of millions in gold, diamonds and silver. At the same time I can hardly keep up with my bills and have just about pissed off my wife of 36 years to the breaking point. The saving grace is that she believes in the treasures too. Maybe that has not been a good thing. Either way we our still together.
A year ago I put most of my stories together and am planning to put it out as an E-book. I have pictures and videos of all the best stuff. I think it would make a wonderful and inspiring story for the kids of today.
I am looking for anyone that thinks they have a proven dowser that they completely believe in to put in their two cents on the pirate chests dig. I will send the right people a photo to dowse or if they are willing to come to south Florida I will take them to the chest site. I have permission from the owners to attempt to dig up any and all chests.
If someone wants to back this whole adventure you can PM for more details.
Just so you will understand my obsession I have to explain something. Around 1983-1984, before I knew him, the dowser that I took to all those places stood on the bow of one of Mel Fisher's boats, swung his pendulum and led them to the pile of gold from the Atocha. Hard to believe but true.
I know I should probably give up on this dig as the proffessional metal detectorist says there are no chests there. I have had at least 14 dowsers tell me that the chest and maybe others are still there. Maybe we are all wrong. Should I give up? What would you do? The first picture is from the first dig. That is the dowser pointing his pendulum towards where he says the chest is. The second picture is the hand dug well.
Hi,
How about posting a clear, sharp aerial picture of the area in question and see what the forum dowsers or anyone else who wants to give it a go and see what happens. Indicate north and don't include any identifying information in the photo.
Jon
 
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Bigdogdad

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Let me begin by thanking the people who have posted positive replies to my story. I am a very positive type of person and I try to avoid negative people. By joining this social networking site I am opening myself up to everyone out there to put their opinion on here. I am hoping the negative people will keep their opinions to themselves. My parents taught me that if you did not have something good to say to keep your mouth shut. Of course everyone has an opinion but you know how that saying goes.
Dowsing can be found in the Bible. It has been used to find water as far back as the history of mankind. If you do not believe in the possibility that it could work, you probably don't beleive in a lot of other things. To the non-beleivers, try this. Talk to anyone that has been a plumber and ask them if they know anybody or if they themselves can use bent clothes hangers or bent brass rods to pinpoint the EXACT location of plumbing pipes. I guarantee you that if you were to go to any older plumbing company, someone at EVERYONE of them will tell you that they KNOW it works. If at that point you do not beleive them, call them a liar and see what happens.
There is no foolproof method of detecting buried treasures. Metal dectectors will pick up any and all metal whether it is junk or valuable. You could have a super expensive ground penetrating radar system that might show you what looks like a square box at 20 feet and may have metal in it. It could be full of junk metal. The only way you are going to know for sure what is buried below you is to dig. Where I live in SW Florida, during the rainy season, you will usually hit water at about 3 feet anywhere you dig. Our sandy soil will cause your hole to keep caving in on you. To dig very deep you are going to have to have a pump if you plan on keeping the water out. I have worked construction here for over 30 years and I know what I am talking about.
The proffessional metal detectorist that the investor hired had 4 different machines. None of them were any kind of conventional detector. He had equipment that cost tens of thousands of dollars. He actually tried to explain to me how they worked. It was way over my head. He only used 2 of them. I believe he charges thousands of dollars a day for his services. That was between him and the investor. I know I should except his findings, but I can't. Maybe it is wishful thinking on my part, but I refuse to give up.
I am going to put a photo on here for anyone that wants to try to dowse it. You have to word your questions very carefully. For example: is there gold, silver or diamonds buried in the area of this photo? Is it still there? How deep is it? Is there more than one place? When was it buried? In todays dollars, how much is it worth? To the people that don't beleive in this type of dowsing, you will probably thinks this all sounds stupid. To the dowsers that believe, give it a try. You can put your answers on this thread or send me a PM.
I know all about the "Amazing Randi" and his million dollar challenge. Basically if you can devise a test that will prove any paranormal powers, and they approve of your test, you can try to prove to them your abilities. You can go on his website to see a list of lots of different people who have applied. Apparently no one has got past the first part. I talk about this in greater detail, in my yet to be published book. I believe I have come up with a way to put together a test that will win this money. The first part of being able to do this is that I can't profit from it myself.
Below is the picture to dowse. If I can somehow get a group of dowsers that can work together, it might be "Amazing" as to what we could possibly accomplish. If you right click on the picture you can (save as) and be able to print a copy of it to work with. I know it appears a little big on here but it will work well for a copy. Good luck. Maybe you will be so convinced of the treasure that you will want to help me dig it up. North is at the top of the picture.
 

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okiedowser

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Bigdogdad i got no gold, but there a lot of silver there,got it in all 3 picture's.
 

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Bigdogdad

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I would not blame anyone for their skeptism of my story or dowsing in general. I blame the lack of a big find on my part. We did find enough small items in the EXACT spot and depth that the old dowser said they would be to convince me and others of his abilities and to keep going. Even if I were to show the doubters what some would feel to be complete validation of dowsing they would still write it off to luck or coincidence. I have spent a lot of time trying to figure if and how dowsing really works. It certainly is not foolproof or 100%, than again neither is any other method of detection.
Many years ago, before this dowser died, I ran into a couple of guys that were metal detector experts and had actually built their own machines. They did not beleive in dowsing whatsoever. I challenged them to put my dowser to the test with the understanding that he would not know that he was being tested. Without going into the details(I go into very deep detail of everything I talk about on this site, in my book), the dowser passed all tests with flying colors. The dowsers, who were brothers, were forced to change their way of thinking and even decided to use what they learned about dowsing, to modify the design of their detectors.
We decided to go pick up the old man and go after some treasures together. I won't go into what happened next but I decided to break all ties with these two. I found out many years later that they went back for some of the treasures without me. It did not work out well for them. I think they had an aura of bad karma over them.
What I have found out recently was that they spent over twenty years together going after their own trerasures. They spent well over $100,000 dollars. They had the best equipment that money could not buy. They had access to files on the history of different treasures that the average person could not get. In spite of all this, they claim to have found nothing. The brother that I talked to claimed this was because there is not much left to be found, which may be true. Now that they have broken up I think one of them may be onto something big. The point is that it is not easy to find large quantities of buried gold no matter how you go about it. Look how much time, money, equipment and destroyed land the guys on "Gold Whiners" (my name for them) have gone thru with nothing to show but a small jar of gold flakes.
The armchair "treasure hunters" out there can sit back and make fun of us all if it makes them feel better. I have made up a new saying based on an old one, 'talk is cheap, but text is free". In other words, it is easy to sit there in front of your computer and make fun of the people who are actually out trying to do something.
The truth will eventually come out. I have been told that my book will be my treasure. I have contemplated releasing it. I have had to re-edit twice as I believe I put in too much information. Either way the members of TN will be the first to know what happens. I am still waiting to hear whether the discovery channel is interested in my story.
 

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