SOLVED! Ambrotype Photo Civil War Militia Member Georgia

[hombre_de_plata_flaco]

Any military guys here that can identify who these two are fighting for? I am going to be really embarrassed if it is the US.

Even with a loupe I can't make out the first letter on the hat of the first guy. It's either "D" "O" or "Q" (I think). The second letter appears to be a "U".

 

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[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

On a whim I decided to see how many different images I could find of Civil War era tintypes in original cases. Luckily I found a website showing approximately 2,000 various images. It took a while to scroll through all of them, but the end result was that only two of the two-thousand images showed soldiers (Confederate and Union) wearing a Shako hat. Why this is I can't say, unless it was because Privates and/or non officers made up the majority of individuals having their pictures taken in studios. 99.9% of the pictures of those wearing hats were either of the more common type like the Kipi, with some wearing Forage - Slouch and Hardee hats. I'm not sure exactly how this helps here, but it suggest the odds of finding another Civil War tintype of someone wearing a Shako hat is about 1,000 to 1

I also came across the belt buckle below which has the Georgia state seal on it. It is similar in shape and may be like the one the soldier is wearing in the tintype being discussed. Perhaps another close look at the image with a loope will reveal something.

SBB

 

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[hombre_de_plata_flaco]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

The fellow in the 2nd pic does have three clearly visible stars on his collar when viewed under a magnifying glass.

I can't make out either guys belt buckle. The 1st pic has the gold paint obscuring the buckle. Could the paint have been put there to better mask the reverse image?

 

[hombre_de_plata_flaco]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

On a whim I decided to see how many different images I could find of Civil War era tintypes in original cases. Luckily I found a website showing approximately 2,000 various images. It took a while to scroll through all of them, but the end result was that only two of the two-thousand images showed soldiers (Confederate and Union) wearing a Shako hat. Why this is I can't say, unless it was because Privates and/or non officers made up the majority of individuals having their pictures taken in studios. 99.9% of the pictures of those wearing hats were either of the more common type like the Kipi, with some wearing Forage - Slouch and Hardee hats. I'm not sure exactly how this helps here, but it suggests the odds of finding another Civil War tintype of someone wearing a Shako hat is about 1,000 to 1

SBB

I like those odds.

Thanks again for the great information. So we have two Confederate officers, one definitely from Georgia wearing uncommon headgear, and a possible Colonel? This is so cool.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

Here's something I stumbled across that 'might' connect to soldier number two. Note in the accompanying text the references to a "five point star" and "eight buttons."

[ Text copy/pasted ]

Sold For $2,200

Ambrotype Portrait of Armed Confederate Infantryman

Three-quarter portrait of armed Confederate infantryman. 6th plate ambrotype in original dark brown case. Hand coloring on cheeks, uniform buttons, and star on kepi.

This soldier’s uniform and hat indicate that he may be a Texas soldier, with a five-point star attached to his kepi (although soldiers from other Confederate states sometimes wore a star insignia on their headgear). He is holding a musket with unsheathed bayonet and wearing an eight-button frock coat with branch of service trim on coat, cuffs and collar, and a leather waist belt with typical Confederate frame buckle. The most difficult images to locate of Confederates are from Texas, Arkansas, Missouri.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

Although it may be impossible to say with certainty if the stars in the two pictures are cloth or metal, they 'might' be one of these ...

Sold For $4,250

Civil War Period Silvered Hat Badge of the 17th Texas Infantry. Having its origins in the period when Texas was an independent republic, this emblem was also used by Civil War Texas soldiers and has been observed on equipment, most notably wooden canteens, as well as buttons and various forms of insignia. This example is indigenous to Texas having been acquired from a noted Houston collector in whose hands it had resided for some 40 years. 1 5/8" across the arms (the arms vary slightly in length), rather crudely cut from silvered sheet brass."T E X A S" (the E being reversed) hand engraved on the arms of the star. Hand engraved ric-rac border. Shaded hand engraved "17th" in the center, representing the 17th Texas infantry. A heavy sharpened stick pin is rather crudely soldered horizontally to the back.

The 17th Texas Infantry was organized at Camp Terry in March of 1862 and served in the trans-Mississippi Department. The regiment was heavily engaged at Milliken's bend, losing 21 killed and 68 wounded. An absolutely authentic and very rare piece of Texas Confederate insignia.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

2 Confederate officers. One may be from Texas. Im curious what you paid for them?

Could there be a star on that 2 piece buckle? http://www.regtqm.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=65

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

The belt buckle on soldier number two "appears" to be round in the center with slots or "wings" on either end (like some of the ones Cy posted a link to) and possibly like one the buckles shown below, all of which are Confederate and original. The one I'm liking best is the officer's belt pictured in the center, with a close up of it at the bottom. (Pretty soon we'll have that poor soldier stripped buck naked). Lol

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

If you have time, I would check every name on those other pictures to try and match it up with a Confederate officer.
Im waiting to see what info CannonBallGuy has come up with.

 

[hombre_de_plata_flaco]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

2 Confederate officers. One may be from Texas. Im curious what you paid for them?

 

[goldenlady]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

I think you found a real treasure in those tin type's !!!

 

[AU24K]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

I think you found a real treasure in those tin type's !!!

I've found silver certificates in a box of letters bought at an estate sale while searching for stamps.
Just goes to show that Treasure is where you seek it!

Best,
Scott

PS. I'm ALWAYS on the search for tintypes, dags, glass negs, etc when I'm "junkin'"

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

I believe that the both of the soldiers in the photos are wearing 9-button coats. In both cases, the belt is covering the ninth button.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

SodaBottleBob, no offense intended, but it seems you've been misled. I am quite certain that all of the "Confederate" buckles in the photos you posted are bogus. Particularly, the five in the first photo are utter fakes, made in England during the 1960s civil war Centennial, for the purpose of sales to gullible "yanks" (meaning modernday Americans) who wanted to own a Confederate buckle.

The lion-face buckle is a crude imitation of an actual British buckle ...not Confederate.

The 2-piece Virginia buckle also appears to be bogus ...not a Confederate-made buckle, nor Confederate-used. Note that the Virginia emblem in the center is in actuality a Virginia uniform button, which of course was not part of the original buckle's body. It appears that the buckle's original emblem was removed and the Virginia button susbstituted in its place. That specific button (note its extra-wide rim) was manufactured by the Horstmann Company of New York & Philadelphia, in the post-1865 era. That "Virginia" buckle is not in any of the books on civil war buckles, nor in O'Donnell & Campbell's massive (616-page) encyclopedia, "American Military Buckles and Plates."

This is not an attack on SodaBottleBob. I believe he has simply been misled. This post's intention is Education. I must prevent the forum's readers from accepting that any of those buckles are genuine Confederate buckles ...or even reproductions of genuine Confederate buckles. In actuality they are what collectors call Fantasy buckles.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

TCG ~

No offence taken. I admit I don't know squat about Civil War relics. My method of research is simply that I have the time (five hours today) and tools (mainly internet access) which allow me to search for stuff that others may have neither the time or interest in doing. However, I am also vulnerable in the respect that when I tap into something that someone else states as being original, I often accept it as fact because I have nothing else to go on. My research methods are such that I just throw a bunch of stuff against the wall to see what sticks, and then let the experts sort it out from there. And even though I agree that facts are extremely important when it comes down to the final analysis on any topic, I have also learned that misinformation and/or too many clues can oftentimes pave the way to the truth.

For example:

The text below pretty much speaks for itself regarding the buckle pictured. As a novice of this sort of thing I have no reason to suspect that what is claimed is not true. If someone were to come along and tell me that the buckle pictured is another fake, then I would accept that and then just move on to the next clue and so on and so forth. I'm like a tractor who plows the field and plants the seeds, but let's someone else take care of the watering and bring in the harvest.

My primary objective here is to try and help identify the items in question. I'm not sure how close we have come to achieving this, but I'm trying.

Respectfully,

SBB

~ Sold at auction June 29, 2008 ~

$4,250.00

Superb Two-Piece Virginia State Seal Buckle. The buckle measures 50mm x 86mm, wreath height 59mm. This buckle type is listed as Plate 379 in Steve E. Mullinax's Confederate Belt Buckles & Plates, Alexandria: O'Donnell Publications, 1991 (Plate 418 in the expanded 1999 edition). It features a gilt cast brass plate with an applied die-stamped brass tongue disk. Each piece is numbered - the wreath "29", the plate "33". The Virginia state motto "Sic Semper Tyrannis" appears in raised letters on the buckle. This style of buckle is thought to have been marketed locally to officers of Virginia's prewar militia but was also used by the Confederacy during the Civil War. The belt comes with a letter of authenticity signed by Steve Mullinax, author and noted expert on Confederate buckles. The buckle is in fine condition.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

Could the star kepi hat signify Texas or more likely something else?

 

[Tuberale]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

Most of the photos you have posted were c. 1852-1866. I recognize one of the women, in the third photo of the second group, who also was in my grandmother's photo album. She may be a relative or an early singer or entertainer.

Much of my grandmother's photoalbum actual came from her mother, and were continued on as a keepsake/family heirloom.

I believe one of the golden-colored frames you show may actually be gold foil or heavy gold leaf. Gold is inert, and it was hoped having gold near a photo would prevent deterioration of the photo itself.

I believe another of your photos shows early color added, in the form of gold leaf, to the earrings (and something else?).

This would increase their value, just in case you are considering re-sale.

The second photo in the original grouping is of a confederate soldier. I don't recognize the first soldier's garb, though.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

Most of the photos you have posted were c. 1852-1866. I recognize one of the women, in the third photo of the second group, who also was in my grandmother's photo album. She may be a relative or an early singer or entertainer.

The one that says Evansville Indiana?

Good thought on the gold leaf. I remember working with that years ago... very hard to work with.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

I found this. Its not the same studio but the bottom is very similar to several of your studio photos.
Its dated 1894.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-PHOTO-WOMAN-HIRST-STUDIO-HUTCHINSON-KANSAS-1894-/310303278882

 

[Tuberale]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

Most of the photos you have posted were c. 1852-1866. I recognize one of the women, in the third photo of the second group, who also was in my grandmother's photo album. She may be a relative or an early singer or entertainer.

The one that says Evansville Indiana?

Good thought on the gold leaf. I remember working with that years ago... very hard to work with.

That's her.

Gold leaf is extremely thin and quite difficult to work with. But during the era we are talking about here, much thicker gold foil was used for framing purposes, especially irreplaceable family keepsakes like photos. In a very real sense, these were evidence of geneology recordings for the future. But the photos were mostly abused over time, and often (at least in my grandmother's case) not all that well identified.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

Give us the name of the Evansville Indiana studio and if shes famous, we may be able to find her.