SOLVED! Ambrotype Photo Civil War Militia Member Georgia

[hombre_de_plata_flaco]

Any military guys here that can identify who these two are fighting for? I am going to be really embarrassed if it is the US.

Even with a loupe I can't make out the first letter on the hat of the first guy. It's either "D" "O" or "Q" (I think). The second letter appears to be a "U".

 

[oldbattleaxe]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

Don't worry about the frames. If you desire slightly use some elmers wood glue to the case with a q tip. The hinged area use some dark cloth and glue that in the exact place the old hinge was. Do not remove the pictures inside unless you are careful and do not wipe or touch the face. Bill

 

[hombre_de_plata_flaco]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

Don't worry about the frames. If you desire slightly use some elmers wood glue to the case with a q tip. The hinged area use some dark cloth and glue that in the exact place the old hinge was. Do not remove the pictures inside unless you are careful and do not wipe or touch the face. Bill

Cracking them open never even crossed my mind. I was just thinking that a dark piece of stretchy fabric could be attached on the left side of the base that holds the photo to serve as a hinge of some sorts. There are two metal hooks on the right side that clasp the frame together.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

Any names on the backs?

 

[oldbattleaxe]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

That will work. I have to baby sit my grandson in the morning and it is now 1:00 AM. I have to get to bed. Take care Bill

 

[hombre_de_plata_flaco]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

Any names on the backs?

Nah... The front and back of both look like this:

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

I've seen the other opinions about the first photo, but I have to disagree, because that sure looks like a Georgia State Seal hat-plate to me.

Winner! Winner! Chicken Dinner!

Well... I don't view What-Is-It? requests as a contest... I'm just trying to be of assistance to folks here -- as part of the forum's "group effort."

But since you've mentioned a chicken dinner as the prize, and that you live in Georgia... I'll mention that I was born-&-raised in Atlanta...and the next time I get back to my old home state I'll see about collecting the prize. ;-) Good food and good conversation for both of us.

I've re-posted your two tintype images in another forum, to see what my civil-war-era photography expert friends there can tell you about those images.

As mentioned, I don't know a great deal about "early" photography... but I can help you date your images at least somewhat. If they are indeed tintype photos, they can be no earlier than the mid-1850s -- which is when the tintype photo-process was invented. it was first patented in America in 1856.

The details of the soldiers's uniforms, insignia, and gear will narrow down the time-range. As soon as my civil war photography expert friends give me their replies, I'll tell you what they say. By the way, you might be getting some cash offers from them, if the photos turn out to be pre-1866.

 

[hombre_de_plata_flaco]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

Hey Cannonball guy I really appreciate it! I will gladly buy you some Georgia-fried chicken if you are ever in the neighborhood. I'm closer to Athens than Atlanta, so Weaver D's may have to do. The Plantation Buffet has some pretty good Sunday bird as well. There was a REALLY good soul food restaurant here in my little town called Lu Lu's but they closed up shop a few years ago.

So we are shooting for in between 1856-1866? I'm pretty sure these are tin types but I am afraid to crack them open to check.

Again, thanks for all the help.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

Any names on the backs?

Nah... The front and back of both look like this:

I meant the other photos. Sometimes they will write a family name, place or date on the back in pencil.

 

[oldbattleaxe]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

I can tell you. I can tell you they both are Civil War era. The Shako one is early CW and the lower image is probably Alabama. The shako image should be glass ambrotype and the other could be. That was the early process of imagery except daguerotype which neither are that. I couldn't see the shako badge very good. You have two very nice images along with what possible could be some civilian pictures of the same men and their family. I think that pretty much answers the dating question. If you use a small knife blade pry the image out carefully. The back will be either tin or glass with black paint on it. It is one or the other. They are Bill

 

[hombre_de_plata_flaco]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

Any names on the backs?

Nah... The front and back of both look like this:

I meant the other photos

Yes. There are a few that mention a Doctor and a few that mention Alabama. I still haven't went through them all, as I am just pulling them out today.

 

[hombre_de_plata_flaco]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

I can tell you. I can tell you they both are Civil War era. The Shako one is early CW and the lower image is probably Alabama. The shako image should be glass ambrotype and the other could be. That was the early process of imagery except daguerotype which neither are that. I couldn't see the shako badge very good. You have two very nice images along with what possible could be some civilian pictures of the same men and their family. I think that pretty much answers the dating question. If you use a small knife blade pry the image out carefully. The back will be either tin or glass with black paint on it. It is one or the other. They are Bill

I'm too scared to open these things up.

What exactly is "shako"?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

I just came across this thread and mainly wanted to tag it for e-mail notifications. I did a little research beforehand, but all I came up with so far was the "Epaulette" (shoulder fringe) shown below and a little information about it. But what I don't know is whether the information below pertains to Union or Confederate uniforms. Anyway, it might be something to look into regarding the rank of the individual pictured in the tintype. (Providing there is some scale to measure the bullion by). If nothing else, at least we know now what those fancy shoulder shigle things are called.

SBB

Epaulette:

Epaulettes were gold with silver grade (rank) insignia. Epaulettes differed according to the insignia (devices) they displayed and the diameter and length of the bullion fringe hanging from the end. The devices indicated grade, branch of service and in some cases regimental number. Epaulettes were typically worn on dress uniforms.

Grade Diameter of Bullion Length of Bullion

General Officer Grades 1/2 inch Three and 1/2 inches
Field Officer Grades 1/2 inch Three and 1/2 inches
Captains 1/4 inch Two and 1/2 inches
Lieutenants 1/8 inch Two and 1/2 inches


[ Epaulette shown here is that of a Second Lieutenant ]

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

What exactly is "shako"?

A shako is a type of hat the guy is wearing in the first pic. I dont know the exact definition. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shako

 

[hombre_de_plata_flaco]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

What exactly is "shako"?

A shako is a type of hat the guy is wearing in the first pic.

I had no idea what those type of hats were called. Jeez Hombre, put down the interwebs and pick up a book.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

I just found this: Although the nineteenth century shako was impressive in appearance and added to the height of the wearer, it was also heavy and clumsy in the field and provided little protection against enemy action or the weather. Most models were made of cloth or felt, over a leather body and peak. During the period of general peace that followed the Napoleonic Wars, the shako in European armies became a showy and impractical headdress that was best suited for the parade ground. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shako

I cant imagine fighting a battle with these clumsy things on the head but back in the day they just kinda lined up and started firing.

 

[hombre_de_plata_flaco]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

I cant imagine fighting a battle with these clumsy things on the head but back in the day they just kinda lined up and started firing.

I love history, but the American Civil War makes me cringe. Don't like to think about it. Dudes marching through open fields just waiting to get torn to shreds by canister or rifle fire. Scary stuff.

So we definitely have two Johnny Rebs? Can't believe you guys are narrowing down the rank on these fellas. Impressive. I actually thought the two guys were European or something. The thought that they might have been Civil War related briefly crossed my mind, but I quickly dismissed it as I'm not that lucky.

 

[trikikiwi]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

I'm not sure if this cropped up before?

It appears to be another example of the frame.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Daguerr...19727?pt=Art_Photo_Images&hash=item1e6496becf

Out of interest, I have used the Tiny URL site to abbreviate all that.
http://tiny.cc/s3iup

I love history too

Cheers, Mike

 

[hombre_de_plata_flaco]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

This guys hat looks the same as the fella in the 1st pic, except the plume on his shako is larger and the letters in his wreath read "OLI" (Oglethorpe Light Infantry). Pre-Civil War militia from Savannah.

http://books.google.com/books?id=hm...t=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

The first guy's hat is one of several variations of Shako type hat. The second guy's is one of several variations of Kepi type hat. I've included the modifier "several variations" because there were variations in the "style" of those types of hats. In other words, one regiment's Shako hats often were a somewhat different style from another regiment's Shako hats.

Both guys seem to be wearing 9-button single-breasted coats. By the army's official Regulations, those 9-button coats were for Lieutenants, Captains, and Majors.

But the second guy's collar isn't very clear in the photo you posted, but it seems to show three stars. If so... that was the rank-insignia for a Colonel in the Confederate army. CS colonels were supposed to wear a double-breasted coat. The explanation might be that the photo was made sometime in 1861, before "regularity" in CS uniforms became well-established. (In 1861, many officers started their service to the Confederacy wearing their pre-war State Miilitia uniforms.)

One other note... in a previous post you said one of letters on the first guy's hat might be a a "backwards G." The explanation for that possibility is that such photos were actually a reverse-image, like we see in a mirror, not the "direct" image we see with our eyes

You can see that photo better than I can. Please put your magnifying-loupe on it and tell us if you see three stars -- or not.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Re: Tin Type Photos of Soldiers - but from what army?

TCG ~

You are correct about tintypes being reverse images. Take for example the one (and only one in existence) of Billy the Kid shown below. Because of the reverse image, for years everyone thought he was left handed because the holstered pistol is shown on his left. There was even a 1950s movie starring Paul Newman titled "The Left Handed Gun." But the truth is he was right handed. By the way, this tintype sold at a Denver, Colorado auction about two weeks ago for a whopping $2.3 million. (The pre-auction estimate was $400,000.00) There are numerous articles about the auction on the internet.

SBB