Superstition People, Places, & Things.

[cactusjumper]

An educated guess? That mug being in such good shape must have had ceremonial significance, and so the likelihood of it being a rattle mug would be higher than usual, I'd think.

deducer,

You may be correct, but that picture is shown in a number of places and there is no mention of it being a rattle mug. If it were, it's hard to imagine it would not be noted.

The T shaped portal is known in many parts of the world and usually has "sacred" connotations. That is so much so, that the Hopi will not speak about it. The Maya believed it was a doorway to the Spirit World. It also has a sacred meaning to the Indians of India. The Apache may also hold it as sacred, as indicated by there T shaped necklaces.

No doubt it's a common form/symbol in many other places.

Take care,

Joe

 

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[somehiker]

What was the cup used for?

Thank you for your response.

Probably the same thing we still use mugs for.
The substantial D-shaped handle would be the result of "form follows function".
In other words, the handle helps keep your fingers away from the heat, if used for a hot beverage for example.
And the size allows you to wrap three or four fingers around the handle, rather than just one or two.
After all,t ain't one of those effete latte cups them artsy-fartsies driink from.

 

[somehiker]

I would put my money on the mug being Anasazi:



Joe Ribaudo

The cup that I posted the photo of was identified as "Mesa Verde".
Not sure about the ones that Hal posted.

 

[Ponchosportal]

Probably the same thing we still use mugs for.
The substantial D-shaped handle would be the result of "form follows function".
In other words, the handle helps keep your fingers away from the heat, if used for a hot beverage for example.
And the size allows you to wrap three or four fingers around the handle, rather than just one or two.
After all,t ain't one of those effete latte cups them artsy-fartsies driink from.

Thank you for your response.

I was not being flip with my original question "what was the cup used for?"

I was wondering if it was used as ceremonial or oatmeal. I was unaware they drank coffee with such sophistication.

Once again, thank you for your response.

 

[markmar]

Talking about " T " . In the heart region are three T . One approaching the region from south ( 1 ) , another approaching the region from north ( 2 ) and beside the stone trail end . All have orientation the up side to south .

 

[somehiker]

Thank you for your response.

I was not being flip with my original question "what was the cup used for?"

I was wondering if it was used as ceremonial or oatmeal. I was unaware they drank coffee with such sophistication.

Once again, thank you for your response.

No problem....I didn't think you were.
I don't know if the Ancestral Puebloans (aka Anasazi) drank coffee, but some did drink cacao (chocolate). Tall, cylindrical pottery vessels have been found, which contain cacao residue. The vessels are very similar to ones found in Mezoamerica.
I would also think they also had a number of other drinks, made from plant and animal ingredients .... some medicinal or ceremonial, and others just for the nutrition or taste.

 

[cactusjumper]

The cup that I posted the photo of was identified as "Mesa Verde".
Not sure about the ones that Hal posted.

Wayne,

That makes sense as the Anasazi were in Mesa Verde at one time.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Azquester]

I think it's a Pythagoras Tantalus Greedy Cup. They put the hole in the wrong place.

 

[somehiker]

Wayne,

That makes sense as the Anasazi were in Mesa Verde at one time.

Take care,

Joe

The Navajo certainly believed that they were.

 

[cactusjumper]

The Navajo certainly believed that they were.

They were.

 

[oldpueblo]

I find this bowl fascinating too.

 

[Roadhse2]

Could the T shaped doors have a more functional use? Such as letting in maximum sunlight or breezes, yet easily blocked at the bottom to keep out critters at night? Protection from flash flooding? No idea really, but I tend to look at function first in items.

 

[oldpueblo]

Hal, I believe the rose on the shield is a reference to Rhoda, not to a specific type of rose.

 

[EarnieP]

Could the T shaped doors have a more functional use? Such as letting in maximum sunlight or breezes, yet easily blocked at the bottom to keep out critters at night? Protection from flash flooding? No idea really, but I tend to look at function first in items.

I think your 'function' idea is exactly right;
T shaped doorways allowed only one person through the doorway at a time, friend or foe, easier to defend. But the shape also allowed the easy passage of a person carrying say an armload of firewood, game, or even when carrying an older invalid relative, or the sick or wounded.

I know there are claims that the T shape had some significant 'spiritual' meaning, a connection with the underworld. Perhaps that significance is carried on in the mug handle's T .

 

[oldpueblo]

Hal, I could be wrong but I believe that most, if not all roses are dicots.

In reading the excellent examples of philosophy that you have provided, I believe it is a combination of both.
I think that it represents man and woman, along with spiritual and intellectual enlightenment.

The insignia depicted on the shield would indicate their capitol or homeland.

 

[cactusjumper]

The Navajo certainly believed that they were.

Wayne,

I have a number of books on the Anasazi, but the one that addresses them in Mesa Verde is: "The Anasazi Culture at Mesa Verde" by Dale Anderson. You might also try to find a copy of "Anasazi World" by Dewitt Jones and Linda Cordell.

Take care,

Joe

 

[EarnieP]

View attachment 1293359

Style III (Bowl). 2012 ( tDAR id: 383222) ; doi:10.6067/XCV8P26Z2H

All I can say is F-ing wow. I missed it the first time but here it is.

​

"This Bowl is an example of Style III from the Swarts Ruin site. Swarts ruin (sometimes known as Swartz ruin) is a Mimbres village in Grants County, southwestern New Mexico, excavated during the 1920s by H.S. and C.B. Cosgrove. The site dates from about A.D. 950 to 1175 and contained the relatively undisturbed remains of numerous pit houses and several Classic Mimbres roomblocks, as well as a large assemblage of ceramics, lithics, and faunal material. Sometime after the excavations, the site was leveled. Artifacts, photographs and field notes from the Cosgrove excavations are curated in the Peabody Museum of Archaeology and Ethnology at Harvard University."

tDAR


More here: Greek Shield Patterns: 475-430 BC

Along that same line (minus one petal), and even older at 28,000 years;

Rosette symbolism

 

[Azquester]

The "T" in the cups was for bleeding cactus sap. Just like when they get sap from Maple trees for Maple Syrup. The Natives would hook the cup under a large cactus limb, usually to a jumping or "Jumper" Cactus. They called them "Cactus Jumpers" because the caffeine they brewed gave them their first jittery initial morning cup of high powered cactus "Joe". No pun intended.

 

[starman 1]

Gentlemen:

This:

"The same rose is found as a territorial mark on Sentinel Hill and Cocoraque Bluffs in the Silverbell Mountains north of Tucson". - See more at: Admixture in Pima Includes Greek and Sardinian: Genetic Signature of the Minoans, Sea Peoples and Other Mediterranean Peoples in the Southwest?

"The presence of 7-10% Greek and related DNA in Pima populations today also explains the survival of the labyrinth symbol, diagnostic of Minoan civilization, and early legends about the Earth Doctor, who founded their tribe coming from the other side of the world. Their spiritual leaders are called Siwani, after the Siwa oasis in Libya. Snaketown and Tumamoc Hill overlooking Tucson, two of their principal towns, allude to the Water or Snake Clan or ships of the Sea People and the horny toad or armored figure in their mythology. Tumamoc literally means "Mound of the Magician," as armored, advanced navigators and miners were considered magicians by the primitive "Indians" they encountered. One of the original names of the Hopi was Moki ("magicians, magi"), and the real name of the Zuni is Shiwi, another reference to the sacred site Shiwa and universal principal god Shiva (both of which predate Egyptian, Hebrew and Greek religion). - See more at: Admixture in Pima Includes Greek and Sardinian: Genetic Signature of the Minoans, Sea Peoples and Other Mediterranean Peoples in the Southwest?

I have often wondered what happened to this soldier.

Hal a lot of good work. Interesting how history works. It seems this and the Tucson Artifacts were found in the 20`s.

Oldpueblo,

Have you ever spent time on Tumamoc Hill? Very interesting place. Magicians who knew.



Starman

 

[oldpueblo]

Starman,

No I haven't, but I ill definitely get up there and have a look around.