Superstition People, Places, & Things.

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

hmm joe, I thought that Hal was posting a picture of your home at first Coffee?

 

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[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Hal,

I believe the Territorial Asylum, was for the mentally ill. Why do you think Waltz was insane?

Good luck,

Joe

Well, for 1, because he thought he had a rich vein of a million ounces

 

[Azquester]

Close to the corral . This is the picture :

View attachment 1309356

That's the photo of the corral I posted with the trail next to it. I was looking for your close up photo of the mountain cabin retreat.

Waltz had plenty of money under his bed he could've gone to a hospital for treatment. Although I don't think penecillian had been invented yet had he gone it may not have done any good other than giving some hospital nurse a thrilling map of his gold mine. The Hospital staff may have given him more credence and listened to his tale. He may have been arrested for murder though.

I think if you could see a list or find out what he carried in on his trips into the range it would speak volumes to his destination.

 

[markmar]

Bill

You wrote : " I was looking for your close up photo of the mountain cabin retreat. "

The aerial photo was a Bing map picture . More clear than GE . In the GE the cabin is not recognizable . Also is very difficult to find even you are using Bing maps ( in " aerial view " mode ) because is a very small place to detect ( 200x200 feet ).

 

[EarnieP]

Which?

Hal, I never doubt for a minute anything you say. I'm sure there was a very good chance Waltz could have ended up in the asylum you posted (what a great looking building by the way, very symmetrical).

In your research have you come across any photos of a 'county (possibly indigent) hospital' in the Phoenix area? I know from reading the Arizona Weekly Miner newspaper, there apparently was a county hospital in Prescott at that time.

Also, do you give any credence to the story that Waltz gave money to Julia Thomas to save her from losing the bakery she owned?
And to tying that story into the one about the old prospector who told others where to dig up some buried money(or ore) to give to his friend-in-need? If true, maybe Julia was only attempting to repay his kindness by taking Waltz in and trying to nurse him back to health when he fell ill after the Phoenix flood.

 

[cactusjumper]

EarnieP,

My understanding is that the first sanitarium in Phoenix opened in 1895. I am honestly not sure which, is why I asked Bill. I THINK that Prescott and Tucson were the only options at the time, besides going to CA.

No, I have not seen any images of a county hospital.

I don't doubt that Waltz may have helped Julia. To what extent, I don't know. However, after researching it and spending a little time in the Davis Collection, I now have a very strong opinion of Julia. If Waltz was in her care, there was something to be gained.

Again, this is just my opinion.

Hal,

There is little doubt that Julia felt there was something to gain from taking care of Waltz. Caring for people in need has its own rewards and it takes a special kind of person to provide that care. I would hesitate to ascribe ulterior motives to Julia at this late date. It would seem that Waltz showed her great kindness and it would only be natural for her to reciprocate.

Take care,

Joe

 

[EarnieP]

Amazing Randi must not have know about the 'Uncertainty Principle', an electron is deceptive in that you can't know simultaneously it's location and speed. Sneaky little trons!

 

[Azquester]

I think most of the inhabitants at Rosewood were insane Indians. If Jacob Waltz did go he would be subject to cures like the ones below.




Jacob might of been a little more specific as to his mine location if these methods were used on him.

A look at Rosewood today.

 

[Azquester]

Which?

I guess you're right. There were no Hospitals just Witch Doctors. Which Doctor, a Witch Doctor. Only Hospital would've been at Fort McDowell. Those old Government Docs were brutal.

Morphine Bitters was given to the sick and dying which caused halucinations just like old Jacob was given and had on his death bed.
"Old Morphine & Alcohol Stomach Bitters with a Cocaine Booster"

A comfort for the dying. Mixed in with soda and ice cream. Good pick me up. No wonder old Jacob rambled on so about his ficticious mine and his merry Mexican miner men...
He slid off into his dark obi with a smile on his beak.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Hal,

Here is a short timeline of some of the important events concerning Julia.

December 25, 1863 Julia Kaln is born in the Atchafalaya Basin of Louisiana.

July 1882 Julia Kaln is in Phoenix engaged in the laundry business.

December 28, 1883 Julia and Emil Thomas (Thoma) were married in Colorado City, Texas

March 23, 1890 Emil Thomas leaves Phoenix for Centralia Washington.

August 22, 1891 Julia files complaint for divorce.

September 11, 1891 Emil Thomas is served divorce papers in Centralia Washington. Chooses not to reply.

July 26,1891 Shootout at Phillips and Leggett store between Minor and Humphries.

October 1, 1891 Julia Thomas is in the office of attorney George A. Israel in the Thibido Building in downtown Phoenix giving her recollection relative to what she saw occur the day of the shooting between Minor and Humphries.

October 6, 1891 Julia is granted a divorce from Emil Thomas (Final decree).

October 25, 1891 Jacob Waltz dies in Phoenix.

September 1, 1892 Article appears in the Phoenix paper about Julia searching for a mine in the Superstition Mountains.

July 26, 1893 Julia Thomas and Albert Schaffer are married in Phoenix.

February 23, 1894 Julia, Albert and Englebert Schaffer file the Montezuma Mining Claim in the Salt River Mountains Mining District
.
November 17, 1894 Saturday Evening Review article about Superstition mine (PC Bicknell goes to hunt the mine).

December 29, 1894 PC Bicknell writes his articles and sells to the SF Chronicle.

January 13, 1895 the SF Chronicle publishes PC Bicknell’s article.

December 22, 1917 Julia Kaln - Thomas - Schaffer - Israel dies of Brights disease in Phoenix, age 53 (born Dec. 25, 1863 in La.)

April 30, 1926 Albert Schafer dies at Morristown Yavapai Co. Az. Age 63 he had been at Morristown since 1921. (born April 15, 1863 in Germany.)

Matthew

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Matthew,
Incredible to see the time line. Is Emil's departure date correct, March of 1890, not 1891?
And Julia working in Phoenix as early as 1882 is completly new to me.

Thank you Matthew.


Hal,

Yes the March 23, 1890 date is correct, it is in the Thomas Divorce proceedings.

Here is how things occurred :

In September 1889 Emil Thomas (Julia) and a man named Otto Barg agreed to jointly run an eatery in downtown Phoenix called the "Phoenix Restaurant".
Otto Barg became ill soon after and was unable to continue as a partner.
Emil Thomas (and Julia) bought out Barg's half of the business (which was heavily in debt at the time) in about January 1890.
Emil and Julia operated the eatery by themselves until suddenly on March 23, 1890 Emil disappeared from Phoenix leaving the Phoenix Restaurant and Julia in a mountain of debt.
Julia did not know where Emil had gone for 14 months until June 1891 when she learned he was living in Centralia, Washington. (she learned this from Caroline Steinegger, Emil's sister).
On August 22, 1891 Julia filed for divorce from Emil in the Phoenix/Maricopa County court.

Matthew

 

[BlackLine]

Hello everybody. at my first day in arizona i wanted to verify an old mine on top of a mountain that i have found with my personal theory on google. after a long 5h hike to get there i found this. could anybody tell me how old it is? im convinced that it cant get there without a helicopter. thats the quartz i picked up from the ground. there were two tanks and two "columbian kansas city" storage boxes.

 

[azdave35]

did you actually find a mine ?....i dont really see anything that looks like mining equipment.....is the area in gold country?.....check with the blm to see if it has ever had a mining claim on it

 

[BlackLine]

did you actually find a mine ?....i dont really see anything that looks like mining equipment.....is the area in gold country?.....check with the blm to see if it has ever had a mining claim on it

I didnt find any claim. And i dont know if it is a mine cause i was alone and was scared. The only thing i know is that there lay everywhere quartz on the ground. If it isnt a mine what is it. Its in the middle of knowwhere

 

[azdave35]

I didnt find any claim. And i dont know if it is a mine cause i was alone and was scared. The only thing i know is that there lay everywhere quartz on the ground. If it isnt a mine what is it. Its in the middle of knowwhere

lol...quartz doesn't mean much as it is everywhere in arizona..in arizona most of the gold bearing quartz will have a red color to it...in rare cases white quartz will have gold in it (such as the dutchman ore) but is rare around here,,other states like colorado and california you will find gold in white quartz but in arizona the old timers said "the redder the better" when it comes to quartz

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

The higher the iron content the better eh AZ.?

 

[azdave35]

The higher the iron content the better eh AZ.?

in most parts of az yes..the exception to the rule seems to be in the superstition mountain and goldfield area.....the mines along highway 88 (mammoth, black queen ,etc) the black queen's richest ore was white quartz with alot of black manganese ..but as you get up the highway a mile or two the ore turns red again (the golden hilside..the lazy doc..) and most of the gold ore i've seen come from the SWA was either white and black quartz or copper ore with gold

 

[EarnieP]

Hello everybody. at my first day in arizona i wanted to verify an old mine on top of a mountain that i have found with my personal theory on google. after a long 5h hike to get there i found this. could anybody tell me how old it is? im convinced that it cant get there without a helicopter. thats the quartz i picked up from the ground. there were two tanks and two "columbian kansas city" storage boxes. View attachment 1310938View attachment 1310939View attachment 1310940View attachment 1310941

Doesn't that box say 'Reliable Stock Tank' on it?
The other looks like some kind of pressure vessel.

 

[Honest Samuel]

Many great pictures, keep them coming.

 

[Azquester]

Hello everybody. at my first day in arizona i wanted to verify an old mine on top of a mountain that i have found with my personal theory on google. after a long 5h hike to get there i found this. could anybody tell me how old it is? im convinced that it cant get there without a helicopter. thats the quartz i picked up from the ground. there were two tanks and two "columbian kansas city" storage boxes.

Take that red piece in and have it assayed.
May have some arsenopyrites.

I like the rough hewn lumber it shows the age is old. I'm surprised it's still standing. But it looks like a cow barn, ops, just another clue....

After thought. A real easy way to date it is by a close up of the barbed wire.