Superstition People, Places, & Things.

[sdcfia]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aureola#Mandorla

I understand the aura idea, but I was only pointing out the obvious visual similarities.



If you enjoy religious art symbology, you oughta look into the rings and hexagon of Saturn.

 

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[Ponchosportal]

I understand the aura idea, but I was only pointing out the obvious visual similarities.

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If you enjoy religious art symbology, you oughta look into the rings and hexagon of Saturn.

The central part of the left photo (mouth?) looks like an eye (maybe an evil eye) with the eye lid above; maybe representing bad demons/spirits in the earth. My money is it's a mine shrine, Mexican made holding up the roof/hanging wall. I would think it was cast; was it Hal? Sand cast?

 

[EarnieP]

I'm not insulting anyone. I was just making a comment to earnie. Stop stirring up trouble

It was obvious humor, not insult.

 

[Ponchosportal]

I'm not insulting anyone. I was just making a comment to earnie. Stop stirring up trouble

Then why was it necessary for the rest of us to see it? Why not just send Ernie a PM?

Not looking for an answer here; but sorry just don't believe you.

Just my opinion.

 

[EarnieP]

Bill, you can post with great insight, or complete random absurdity.
An enigma adding to the multi layered make up of this site, that's why I like reading your posts.
However, could you possibly reign in the posts on R.
I know you were trying for humor (I try to use it myself), but it didn't work.
Too much and uncalled for.
--------------
Now back on 'track';

Instead of an old square head bolt on the artifact base (very possible), how about an old square headed railroad spike?

 

[EarnieP]

As far as being a railroad spike, perhaps that's the other (detached) part of the spike sticking out on the right side, with the pointed end slightly bent?

For you guys up and roaming in the Superstition area, what's the temps these days?

 

[sgtfda]

Superstition People, Places, & Things.

High 80's Earnie

 

[EarnieP]

I think that it was designed to be used with the "Iron" crucifix which is so heavy that hanging it would be impractical. When the two halves are assembled, the combination is amazingly stable.

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Attachment 1276516

Does the bottom picture of the base look like it could be made up of several pieces of tapered railroad spikes layered side-by-side?
If so, I think we can eliminate those clever early Spanish creators, at least for the base.

[My mistake, looks like types of railways were in use much longer than I thought.]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagonway

 

[Azquester]

Bill, you can post with great insight, or complete random absurdity.
An enigma adding to the multi layered make up of this site, that's why I like reading your posts.
However, could you possibly reign in the posts on R.
I know you were trying for humor (I try to use it myself), but it didn't work.
Too much and uncalled for.
--------------
Now back on 'track';

Instead of an old square head bolt on the artifact base (very possible), how about an old square headed railroad spike?

I lean towards the absurd as being the foremost inclination on this site!


Back to the subject at hand:

I worked for the railroad for a few years and never saw a square headed spike. Everyone I saw were shaped like and Englishman's Hat, hence the name spike.

 

[EarnieP]

You are right Bill, the type RR spike head you describe is definitely the universal standard. (apparently called Hooked, Dog, or L shaped head?)
I did find some mention to square head RR spikes (specifically, square headed spikes counter sunk on 1800's rail section end ties), but I could find no pics that look anything like the square head on the artifact's protrusion.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Natures work Hal

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

part of an old fashioned door lock, miising it's backing plate,

 

[Azquester]

So Hal, Are you saying it's bronze?

If it was cast with the lost wax method there would be evidence of sprues and gates for air escape the mold with chasing being done leaving some evidence of the process.

Also most castings of this nature are hollow not solid. The brazing would leave some evidence. I just don't see it in the rod shaped pieces under the stand. The Patina shows it though.

 

[Azquester]

Hey Bill, when your done using the grey matter between your ears please pass it this way. You know casting ����Look at this detail from the base. It's solid, brass and cast. I have never seen bronze this yellowish.
View attachment 1280410

That certainly looks like an air escape gate. But your saying it's a yellow hew? Have you a color photo of this? Possibly some gold mixed in.. Also, If it was restored you might find the artists signature or stamp on it somewhere. Like they do with underwater treasures? I hope it doesn't end up in the SMM. If it does it may end up being copied and faked then sold off to the highest bidder in a back room deal. Just like those Indian Artifacts a while back. I think I might go there this week and see it for myself. I need a little R&R research time. I've also been asked to go to the State Museum down here for a gander at the Hohokam Mammoth Plate. It shows a Mammoth on it which was not possible in their time frame. I'd like to see if they would agree to an assay of all the materials used in the piece just to see if it mimics anything ancient or modern. If it has traces of rubber or any other modern casting methods materials it would date it fairly new. Fly on back here and meet me up there with my gold testing kit. I can test it for gold right on the spot.

 

[Weaversneedle]

That certainly looks like an air escape gate. But your saying it's a yellow hew? Have you a color photo of this? Possibly some gold mixed in.. Also, If it was restored you might find the artists signature or stamp on it somewhere. Like they do with underwater treasures? I hope it doesn't end up in the SMM. If it does it may end up being copied and faked then sold off to the highest bidder in a back room deal. Just like those Indian Artifacts a while back. I think I might go there this week and see it for myself. I need a little R&R research time. I've also been asked to go to the State Museum down here for a gander at the Hohokam Mammoth Plate. It shows a Mammoth on it which was not possible in their time frame. I'd like to see if they would agree to an assay of all the materials used in the piece just to see if it mimics anything ancient or modern. If it has traces of rubber or any other modern casting methods materials it would date it fairly new. Fly on back here and meet me up there with my gold testing kit. I can test it for gold right on the spot.

If that piece has been on display at tortilla flat I'm guessing if it's been there a while all the local big shots have checked it out thoroughly, why not just ask Tom kollenborn or Greg Davis

 

[Azquester]

If that piece has been on display at tortilla flat I'm guessing if it's been there a while all the local big shots have checked it out thoroughly, why not just ask Tom kollenborn or Greg Davis

Hi WN.

I really don't trust any establishment Dutch Hunters. Especially ones running a tourist themed for profit Museum with ties to the area and a horse in the race. I'd rather take the investigation too the Archaeology Department at the University of Arizona or some other Archaeological entity like MES with no ties to the Dutchman Search. If the object is a real artifact of Jesuit origins it could prove they were mining in the area something that hasn't been established yet by history. That alone would be an important discovery. IMHO

 

[sgtfda]

It is not something anyone got wound up about.

 

[Weaversneedle]

Hi WN.

I really don't trust any establishment Dutch Hunters. Especially ones running a tourist themed for profit Museum with ties to the area and a horse in the race. I'd rather take the investigation too the Archaeology Department at the University of Arizona or some other Archaeological entity like MES with no ties to the Dutchman Search. If the object is a real artifact of Jesuit origins it could prove they were mining in the area something that hasn't been established yet by history. That alone would be an important discovery. IMHO

Bill, what I was trying to say is that tortilla flat isn't just a roadside cafe. It is known worldwide and tens of thousands of people visit every year. There is no way that thing hasn't been checked out.and I hear what you say about the locals not being expert enough to identify the thing but I'm sure they know people that are.I just think you guys are wasting valuable time on this thing when there are other things to be investigated. Common sense says no way there is a Jesuit artifact on sitting in tortilla flat, I used to know the man that owned tortilla flat and if it was real he would have capitalized on it long ago

 

[releventchair]

It is not something anyone got wound up about.

Well ,not till recently anyway, L.o.l..

 

[EarnieP]

Maybe the thing was made in Guadalajara for tourists, but it's still interesting to figure out what it's made of and how.
That is, until someone comes up with buried Superstition gold bars, then this thing is forgotten history!