The Book Club

[cactusjumper]

Marius,

Thank you.

In that same time period, my mom also has been in the hospital twice with pneumonia and heart problems. It's been an eventful time in our lives.

Take care,

Joe

 

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[markmar]

Joe

The health is the most worthy treasure in our lives .

Marius

 

[cactusjumper]

Just for the record......I have met Garry face to face exactly two times. Once he and his wife were coming through Lake Havasu City, and we got together for lunch. A number of years later, he came to a Rendezvous and I didn't even recognize him. He had to tell me who he was.

On the other hand, we have worked together online for a number of years. Our purpose has always been to correct the false stories about the LDM. True history is important to both of us. Along those lines, our record of exposing the made-up history is well documented. It can be found in many places online.

The following false statement is totally untrue:

[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]"cactusjumper and Garry are best of friends and work together as internet trolls and tag team partners to discredit anyone who doesn't fall into their catagory of worthy of being on the forum."[/FONT]

[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]I doubt the person who wrote that has any idea what the truth is anymore. He may have some inkling, because he won't put his real name to these scurrilous attacks. Whenever I see such things from him, I will make them known to the LDM Community.

Joe Ribaudo[/FONT]

 

[Hal Croves]

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cactusjumper,
I too was recently pestered by a nagging cough... all the way to the Superstitions where, in just two days, I managed to shake it. My first time seeing color (not color-color, but color) and canyons full of water. Anyway, I hope that you are feeling better. Enjoy the flowers!

 

[cactusjumper]

Hal,

Although it's starting to get a little late, it can still be a beautiful time to be in the Supe's. The heat, she's a coming. Nice picture.

I am doing better.

Thank you,

Joe

 

[Hal Croves]

cactusjumper,
The nights were downright east-coast cold, but the days were just beautiful. It is such an amazing place to explore again & again and I would encourage anyone on the fence about hiking the Superstitions to prepare, research and to do it. This was my fifth trip in and now if feels "familiar"... although I have still only experienced a small part of the Superstitions. But the wild flowers alone were worth the trip and to be able to swim in the canyons was a gift. And, by the way, the rattlers in Arizona are much more polite than those here in the East. Plenty of warning. It is an amazing place to spend time. One last plug... the chile at the Tortilla Flat eatery is some of the best that I have found and the owners are, like most Arizonians, wonderful people!

Ok, I have a few more posts left to write about Wisner, Barnard (for Gary), and Waltz.

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[sgtfda]

Hal if your running about back there alone feel free to let me know where you will be hiking. Case something happens. You still have my cell #

 

[Hal Croves]

sgtfda,
At my age it wouldn't involve "running about"... more like a "slow wondering".
But I will keep your kind offer in mind for the next trip... I would like to time the next hike with the rendezvous.
Thank you and I hope that you are well!

 

[sgtfda]

See you there Hal. I'm not into the stones or dutch stuff but enjoy meeting up with my friends who attend. It's a blast! Plus I'm only 20 min away. Prospecting is my thing.

 

[Hal Croves]

This map has a strange history and I am wondering if anyone here knows about it and the area highlighted by the arrow. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

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[somehiker]

I was often tempted to pocket a copy of that map, while having a burger and fries at the Superstition Saloon in T/F.
But more as a souvenir than as a source of good information, since it was only a place mat used on all the tables.
It does show many of the landmarks associated with the LDM, and is based on Higham's "Map of The Lost Dutchman's Mine Area".
" Map of the Lost Dutchman Mine Area. Accompanying the map is a brief introduction that is not carried over to Barney's later editions. It reads: "This is not a mystery map showing crosses and arrows or the number of steps from a certain landmark, but a map that does show all of the known trails and water holes in the area of the Lost Dutchman Mine tradition, along with all important canyons and mountains that enter into this romantic story. The authors of this book have spent years of actual travel and research into this area. They are very much indebted to William (Bill) Barkley of the First Water Ranch and the well-known ranch of the Quarter Circle U., for information and courtesy during these trips."
The map is misleading in certain areas. For example, it shows Fish Creek as a tributary of Tortilla Creek, and doesn't show Malapais or Peters Mesa, so I wouldn't be using it to find my way around, or look for clues.
I suspect your arrow is pointed at Marsh Valley.

Regards:SH

 

[sgtfda]

While you were looking at the waitress I snagged one Wayne

 

[somehiker]

While you were looking at the waitress I snagged one Wayne

Which one ?
The sober one or the tipsy one ?

 

[Matthew Roberts]

This map has a strange history and I am wondering if anyone here knows about it and the area highlighted by the arrow. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

View attachment 802578
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Hal,

This is a copy of an original Higham map from the late 1940's. The arrow points to a place that would (in relative terms) be about on the east side of the Northern most Peters Mesa dome between the dome and Peters Canyon. The map is not drawn to scale but is close in relative terms. If you took the length of Peters Canyon and took the halfway point, that is about where the arrow points, and that would put you at about the halfway point of the peters Mesa dome. I have spent a lot of time covering that area and have found many interesting things over the years. The Spanish trail shown on the map is from the old Alan Starrat map that also showed a Spanish trail leading all the way through the Superstition's up and over Peters Mesa, Malapai, Geronimo Head and ending at where Tortilla Flat is today. That trail is actually there although only pieces of it can be followed today.

Matthew K. Roberts

 

[peralta]

This map has a strange history and I am wondering if anyone here knows about it and the area highlighted by the arrow. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=802578"/>

Sorry Hal I tried to bring out the map but couldnte.
Tom

 

[peralta]

Sorry Hal I tried to bring out the map but couldnte.
Tom

Sorry I'm not familiar

 

[Hal Croves]

Actually, I was wondering about the body of water and tunnel feature in Higham's map. I can not understand what it is that he is describing. A temporary water pool? And where is the tunnel?

John Lindley Higham created this map (18" x 26"), known as the MAP OF THE LOST DUTCHMAN GOLD MINE AREA for "the purpose of an advertising medium for the advancement of publicity of the book entitled...".

In 1957, Higham sold the rights to this map to one Thelma Hubbard. It was a twenty year contract granting Hubbard the right to "print, use, reprint and sell, in the State of Arizona,... in any quantity, for the consideration of One Hundred Dollars ($100.00)."

There was also a poem attached to this agreement entitled "The Arizona Key Bird".

I am not sure who Thelma Hubbard is and her connection to this map, but it was still being used in my late edition of Barnard's book.

 

[Garry]

Hal,

"John Lindley Higham created this map (18" x 26"), known as the MAP OF THE LOST DUTCHMAN GOLD MINE AREA for "the purpose of an advertising medium for the advancement of publicity of the book entitled...".

In 1957, Higham sold the rights to this map to one Thelma Hubbard. It was a twenty year contract granting Hubbard the right to "print, use, reprint and sell, in the State of Arizona,... in any quantity, for the consideration of One Hundred Dollars ($100.00)."

There was also a poem attached to this agreement entitled "The Arizona Key Bird".

It's nice to see you continuing to do the basic research. My research of Highham and Barnard is limited, so it is not surprising that I was unaware of the document you are referencing. Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I would only suggest that when you uncover this kind information you include the source. Otherwise the infomation can well be lost among the stories and unfounded specualtion that we usually see on the forums.

A simple reference like, Maricopa Deed Records website. Search on John Higham. We can then review the actual document.

I see you are also researching the Peralta Stones and I suspect we are at least 170 degrees apart on the story but you seem to be moving in my direction a bit. Of couse most people realize that I believe that Tumlinson made the stone carvings and we can reasonably trace them to the late 1940's and Travis. There are a lot of documents and family stories that support this conclusion and (In My Not So Humble Opinion ) no one has presented any documentation that would push the stones into an earlier time period.

Our area of agreement appears to be that the maps are modern and they depict a lot of treasure symbols as opposed geological features. This is only a general statment and there may be a few geological features represented also. Couple of rivers and mountin areas?

Keep after the basic research. Thanks!

Garry

 

[wrmickel1]

Hal,

"John Lindley Higham created this map (18" x 26"), known as the MAP OF THE LOST DUTCHMAN GOLD MINE AREA for "the purpose of an advertising medium for the advancement of publicity of the book entitled...".

In 1957, Higham sold the rights to this map to one Thelma Hubbard. It was a twenty year contract granting Hubbard the right to "print, use, reprint and sell, in the State of Arizona,... in any quantity, for the consideration of One Hundred Dollars ($100.00)."

There was also a poem attached to this agreement entitled "The Arizona Key Bird".

It's nice to see you continuing to do the basic research. My research of Highham and Barnard is limited, so it is not surprising that I was unaware of the document you are referencing. Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I would only suggest that when you uncover this kind information you include the source. Otherwise the infomation can well be lost among the stories and unfounded specualtion that we usually see on the forums.

A simple reference like, Maricopa Deed Records website. Search on John Higham. We can then review the actual document.

I see you are also researching the Peralta Stones and I suspect we are at least 170 degrees apart on the story but you seem to be moving in my direction a bit. Of couse most people realize that I believe that Tumlinson made the stone carvings and we can reasonably trace them to the late 1940's and Travis. There are a lot of documents and family stories that support this conclusion and (In My Not So Humble Opinion ) no one has presented any documentation that would push the stones into an earlier time period.

Our area of agreement appears to be that the maps are modern and they depict a lot of treasure symbols as opposed geological features. This is only a general statment and there may be a few geological features represented also. Couple of rivers and mountin areas?

Keep after the basic research. Thanks!

Garry

Garry

If you'll never seen, touched,smelt the real Stone Maps, of course there modren fakes then, and
can't be dated back to there creation. And Tumlinson surely did'nt gain wealth off them, He held them dearly to his death be parted, you can tell a man by his actions, his action's seem to suggest he found the holy grail.


I do agree the maps depict treasure symbols, That are geological features and there is no rivers depicted at all on them.

Wrmickel1

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal,

"John Lindley Higham created this map (18" x 26"), known as the MAP OF THE LOST DUTCHMAN GOLD MINE AREA for "the purpose of an advertising medium for the advancement of publicity of the book entitled...".

In 1957, Higham sold the rights to this map to one Thelma Hubbard. It was a twenty year contract granting Hubbard the right to "print, use, reprint and sell, in the State of Arizona,... in any quantity, for the consideration of One Hundred Dollars ($100.00)."

There was also a poem attached to this agreement entitled "The Arizona Key Bird".

It's nice to see you continuing to do the basic research. My research of Highham and Barnard is limited, so it is not surprising that I was unaware of the document you are referencing. Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

I would only suggest that when you uncover this kind information you include the source. Otherwise the infomation can well be lost among the stories and unfounded specualtion that we usually see on the forums.

A simple reference like, Maricopa Deed Records website. Search on John Higham. We can then review the actual document.

I see you are also researching the Peralta Stones and I suspect we are at least 170 degrees apart on the story but you seem to be moving in my direction a bit. Of couse most people realize that I believe that Tumlinson made the stone carvings and we can reasonably trace them to the late 1940's and Travis. There are a lot of documents and family stories that support this conclusion and (In My Not So Humble Opinion ) no one has presented any documentation that would push the stones into an earlier time period.

Our area of agreement appears to be that the maps are modern and they depict a lot of treasure symbols as opposed geological features. This is only a general statment and there may be a few geological features represented also. Couple of rivers and mountin areas?

Keep after the basic research. Thanks!

Garry

You are right. I often do post a hyperlink when I quote, but I got lazy thinking it was common knowledge and or insignificant information. I was just wondering what Thelma's roll was in the history of this map. Perhaps she was a placement salesperson.

One thing about Travis is that I do not believe that he had the intellectual capacity to conceptualize the stones. No matter what theory one believes, it took a very special person to make it happen and Travis (IMO) was not that person. But I was wrong about Barnard, so anything is possible. Again, that list of skills will help narrow the options. We both believe that they were made in the years just before their discovery and that is a great place to start.

Who in your mind could have done it, if not Tumlinson? I am not asking for an answer, only that you consider a few other possible names. It is a short list. Even shorter when you see the key being a topo, an aerial map, or an aerial photograph.

I will post what I have on Barnard soon. Sorry for the delay.
Poor Barney... he hurt more than my ex.