The Peralta-Fish Map

[Al D]

The clues you give are as bogus as most LDM clues, there is NOWHERE in the Superstition mountains where Four Peaks appear as one, makes me think that you have never been in those mountains.

 

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[Blindbowman]

your almost as bad as A0cions ... ..

 

[Oroblanco]

I once copied that letter from a web site I have the copy some where but I don't know where it is right now ...I am sure it was also posted here on this site back when we first started talking about Dick Holmes and his taking the gold from under the bed ...this is not the same as the one that tells about his working in Vicksburg :"Go to first water, then to second water, then take the old government trail to San Carlos. Where the trail turns south you will see over the point of a ridge a rock standing in the brush that looks like a man. This is where I always leave the trail. Go to the left of the trail and follow up the long ridge and you will come to a saddle. In this saddle is a round Indian ruin of rocks. Go through this saddle and on up a low ridge and when you get to the highest point of the ridge you can look north and the four peaks are lined up to look like one peak. In the other direction you will see a high needle. In the canyon under you is my hidden camp. You can't get down there because it's too steep, go to the mouth of the canyon and then back. You can find the rock house with very little difficulty. You won't be able to see it until you are right upon it. After you find the camp then come back out of the canyon. (Here Waltz gave a direction to the mine that Holmes and Roberts kept secret). You will never be able to find the mine until you first find the rock house as the shaft is completely hidden. A prospector won't find it because there is no ledge in view. In the mine you will find about $75,000 dollars in gold already dug out. There is enough gold left to dig to make twenty men millionaires." I dug the outcropping away and erased all signs of my digging." but this reminds me of Babcock talking about chicomoztoc... that is not the letter I am talking about it has some detail but there was two pages and it ends with the words then Waltz was dead ...

Hmm well that seems to be the Holmes manuscript you are quoting there. I don't remember any letter found under the bed of Jacob Waltz, which is why I was asking about it. No map either.

 

[gollum]

Hmm well that seems to be the Holmes manuscript you are quoting there. I don't remember any letter found under the bed of Jacob Waltz, which is why I was asking about it. No map either.

Oro,

You are correct. There was neither a letter nor a map found under Waltz' death bed. Only a candlebox with 40 pounds of rich ore. If there had been anything else, we would know about it from Clay Worst. Dick Holme's son Brownie was his best friend and LDM Hunting partner. Dick got the box of ore and that's it.

Mike

 

[Blindbowman]

that's the great part of a good legend ,the truth and clues are all around you but few if any will ever realize they are clues ...believe what may that's totally up to you ...I see lot of things . I hunt for the history the reward dead or alive makes it worth the efforts ...you can Waltz never left a letter or or a map but l know right mine is and that will was Wrietn by waltz and waltz is the only one that could have written it ... ,just remember I told you so .. because I am correct and I know that for a fact !

 

[Blindbowman]

in fact I have seen some snakes playing their snake games ... that's when it is a good time to watch from up above ...just remember the most common type of death out there is accidental !

 

[Idahodutch]

El guijo


View attachment 1757739

I don’t know what happened to this thread. The Peralta/Fish map notations, are curious.
There are a couple more posts ... in regards to this one.

 

[Idahodutch]

El quijo rajar....
The quartz crack...?

El quijo royas...?
The rusty quartz....?

El quijo rojas...?
The red quartz...?

This post goes with it.

 

[Idahodutch]

The last word I think may be c a s a r o s.
The compound of casar - to marry, wed, unite and os - opening, mouth, either end of cervix.

El quijo rojas casaros.

The quartz red union.
The wedding/marriage/union of red quartz.

This one as well .... interesting

 

[Idahodutch]

GE image and the map.

View attachment 1758308

This was the finale of the thought that got posted.

I’m not sure, as maybe some posts were edited out or something ... but looks like the map notations might be referencing different types of gold bearing ore?

Edit: the ge image with partial map overlay, is very curious.... it looks like the red part ... maybe could scoot over one canyon to the East ... as it appears to have been placed on East boulder canyon, but if it was drawn in on path of needle canyon (one canyon to the east), it appears that it may line up to match the PF map better? I can’t tell

Thoughts ?

 

[Idahodutch]

So my questions.....
The notations of quartz color .... and the joining ...

The Peraltas were supposed to have 8 mines, and a 9th more rich than the others, and the 9th supposed to be the one given to Waltz for compensation, then supposedly Waltz and Weiser found the outcrop of different gold ore, that was even richer that the 9th peralta mine. Both mines in same ravine. Is this within the area of the joining of gold bearing ores as possibly depicted on the PF map?
Idahodutch

 

[Idahodutch]

Other thoughts about the PF map:
- according to Fish, the Peralta map he got, was different than the Peralta map Ruth is said to have with him.
- if both maps were original Peralta maps, then should be almost the same. Perhaps different interests marked, as maybe pertained to each brother. But really ... no telling.
- according to Erin Ruth, his dad had their copy of the Peralta map with him on the 1931 trip.

So Ruth seemed to have 2 sources of information for locating possible treasure.
Bicknell’s 1895 info, and the Peralta map.

In looking for something common to both, for a possible reason for Ruth to have those particular pieces of info;
A couple of things come to mind.
- the 1895 story about Waltz, and that he got info from a Peralta for a rich mine ... and nearby that mine, was another gold source, but different ore.
- the PF map has Spanish notations that also seems to mention different gold ores ... but joining.

We’re those Spanish notations on both Peralta maps?
Ruth May have been in there to confirm if they were the same mine site ?

Another thought seems to be around if the Ruth map, and the PF map, are actually the same or not. I have no idea, but sounds like they could be. Don’t know.

Whatever Ruth was wanting to confirm, it looks like he may have.

 

[Idahodutch]

Well, I’ve tried to think through this ..... it only made my head hurt
The Peralta fish map, sure seems a Peralta map. And has interesting Spanish notations, that I think may be legit.
Do I think the map takes you to LDM .... no.
Do I think it has some good information .... maybe so.

Did Ruth have a map just like it .... don’t know.
Sorry, but I guess the whole Peralta map(s) thing and the Bicknells article giving info about different ores, ... well it still feels like there is a connection ... but would need to know actual maps involved, who knows, maybe no connection.
Ruth is still a mystery, and in my opinion, so is the PF Map...

 

[markmar]

Well, I’ve tried to think through this ..... it only made my head hurt
The Peralta fish map, sure seems a Peralta map. And has interesting Spanish notations, that I think may be legit.
Do I think the map takes you to LDM .... no.
Do I think it has some good information .... maybe so.

Did Ruth have a map just like it .... don’t know.
Sorry, but I guess the whole Peralta map(s) thing and the Bicknells article giving info about different ores, ... well it still feels like there is a connection ... but would need to know actual maps involved, who knows, maybe no connection.
Ruth is still a mystery, and in my opinion, so is the PF Map...

Ruth had in his possession the Profile map ,which he said was given to Erwin ( his son ) by Gonzalez Peralta, son of Manuel Peralta in exchange for his life. The Profile map, is a mirrored multidimensional map and with some outlines of some mountains/landmarks intentionally undrawed.
Ruth had the Bicknell's clues with him because he hadn't the instructions of how to to use the map from Gonzalez. The fact Ruth didn't know how to read the map, promts to the conclusion how Gonzalez didn't give him the map, but the map was aquired from unknown and dubious sources. Why to lie about the map? Incidentally few moths earlier, in 1930, Gonzalez vanished misteriously in the Superstitions with two coded maps in his possession.

Peralta-Fish map, like the other Peralta's family coded maps, is useless without the instructions given by the map maker in regards to decrypt it. Spanish/Mexican coded maps have a specific style/fingerprint of each map maker, like have all the paintings.
Enough to know to distinguish each map maker's style.
IMHO, the Peralta's found and worked seven mines in the Superstitions, but only five were worked from the beginning as an outcrop. The other two were started by someone else.
In the Fish map, are depicted five mines, four with x's and one as " escondido abiso ". One of them is the LDM inclined shaft, which was a worked mine when the Peraltas found it. This mine also was the reason of their massacre.

 

[point hunter]

Ruth had in his possession the Profile map ,which he said was given to Erwin ( his son ) by Gonzalez Peralta, son of Manuel Peralta in exchange for his life. The Profile map, is a mirrored multidimensional map and with some outlines of some mountains/landmarks intentionally undrawed.
Ruth had the Bicknell's clues with him because he hadn't the instructions of how to to use the map from Gonzalez. The fact Ruth didn't know how to read the map, promts to the conclusion how Gonzalez didn't give him the map, but the map was aquired from unknown and dubious sources. Why to lie about the map? Incidentally few moths earlier, in 1930, Gonzalez vanished misteriously in the Superstitions with two coded maps in his possession.

Peralta-Fish map, like the other Peralta's family coded maps, is useless without the instructions given by the map maker in regards to decrypt it. Spanish/Mexican coded maps have a specific style/fingerprint of each map maker, like have all the paintings.
Enough to know to distinguish each map maker's style.
IMHO, the Peralta's found and worked seven mines in the Superstitions, but only five were worked from the beginning as an outcrop. The other two were started by someone else.
In the Fish map, are depicted five mines, four with x's and one as " escondido abiso ". One of them is the LDM inclined shaft, which was a worked mine when the Peraltas found it. This mine also was the reason of their massacre.

Hi. I have a question about "escondido abiso". If this was a worked mine when the Peraltas found it, then who dug the mine to begin with? If the natives had no use for the "tears of the sun" why was it abandoned by the owner? If this is truely the richest mine ever found and lost IMHO, there would be some record. At least close by carved in the rocks. It makes me think there is more to this than meets the eye. I have to agree after 70 years of searching, by some of the most seasoned trackers in the business, something is just not adding up.

 

[somehiker]

Hi. I have a question about "escondido abiso". If this was a worked mine when the Peraltas found it, then who dug the mine to begin with? If the natives had no use for the "tears of the sun" why was it abandoned by the owner? If this is truely the richest mine ever found and lost IMHO, there would be some record. At least close by carved in the rocks. It makes me think there is more to this than meets the eye. I have to agree after 70 years of searching, by some of the most seasoned trackers in the business, something is just not adding up.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=escondido+abiso/spanish+to+english

The map, which is a "record" in itself, doesn't really say anything about a "richest mine". That comes from Waltz's description of the mine he claimed to have found out there, rather than anything said by the Mexicans, Indians etc.



Although hard to read, it appears to describe what is in the "escondido abiso" as a cave of gold containing 50 carts or loads, so not a mine.

 

[point hunter]

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=escondido+abiso/spanish+to+english

The map, which is a "record" in itself, doesn't really say anything about a "richest mine". That comes from Waltz's description of the mine he claimed to have found out there, rather than anything said by the Mexicans, Indians etc.

Although hard to read, it appears to describe what is in the "escondido abiso" as a cave of gold containing 50 carts or loads, so not a mine.

The fact that only Waltz called it the "richest mine in the world" makes it seem a little more legit, at least in my mind. Honestly, IDK if someone saved my life if I would give away the most valuable asset I possessed.
If it is a "cache" or "cave" of ore, that could possibly explain why no one has been able to match what still remains, like the matchbox, to it. It could also explain why the Peraltas gave it to Waltz in the first place IMHO.

 

[Idahodutch]

The fact that only Waltz called it the "richest mine in the world" makes it seem a little more legit, at least in my mind. Honestly, IDK if someone saved my life if I would give away the most valuable asset I possessed.
If it is a "cache" or "cave" of ore, that could possibly explain why no one has been able to match what still remains, like the matchbox, to it. It could also explain why the Peraltas gave it to Waltz in the first place IMHO.

Good morning point hunter,
I have a question for you ....
I am not really a treasure map guy, but this map .... how is it connected to Waltz?
I thought that this map made it to Arizona by means other than Waltz, was this not so?
Sincerely,
Idahodutch

 

[markmar]

Hi. I have a question about "escondido abiso". If this was a worked mine when the Peraltas found it, then who dug the mine to begin with? If the natives had no use for the "tears of the sun" why was it abandoned by the owner? If this is truely the richest mine ever found and lost IMHO, there would be some record. At least close by carved in the rocks. It makes me think there is more to this than meets the eye. I have to agree after 70 years of searching, by some of the most seasoned trackers in the business, something is just not adding up.

The " Escondido Abiso " mine, was first found and worked by the Peraltas. The other mines which were worked before the Peraltas, were worked by those who deposited some gold ingots in few caves.
The " 50 cargas mulas " written on the map, is a code and doesn't represent any ammount of gold in any form. When in a map is written an ammount of cargas, always is a code for degrees from a specific point. Doesn't make sense to tell us what cantity is cached. What would change if were 50 or 150 cargas? Our appetite?
The real cantity is written in an inventory which is a private document.

 

[somehiker]

The " Escondido Abiso " mine, was first found and worked by the Peraltas. The other mines which were worked before the Peraltas, were worked by those who deposited some gold ingots in few caves.
The " 50 cargas mulas " written on the map, is a code and doesn't represent any ammount of gold in any form. When in a map is written an ammount of cargas, always is a code for degrees from a specific point. Doesn't make sense to tell us what cantity is cached. What would change if were 50 or 150 cargas? Our appetite?
The real cantity is written in an inventory which is a private document.

"What would change if were 50 or 150 cargas? Our appetite?"

Is it "appetite" that makes so many claim different lost mines, caves of gold, and other treasures are all the same or somehow linked ?
Is "appetite" the reason why some posters claim to have the solution for so many different treasure legends ?
I suspect so.
Appetite for something.....anyway.

"The real cantity is written in an inventory which is a private document."

What makes you believe this "private document" is in any way, related to the Fish Map ?