The Treasure of Captain William Kidd.

[Cryptid1990]

The articles I managed to find and a few extras.

The Literary Digest (22 May 1937), pp. 25-27

The Listener (5 June 1935), p. 983

Listener 1935-06-05: Vol 13 Iss 334 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

archive.org

Anonymous review of Captain Kidd and His Skeleton Island:

The Listener (19 June 1935), p. 1065

Listener 1935-06-19: Vol 13 Iss 336 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

archive.org

Letter response by Harold T. Wilkins to 5 June 1935 anonymous review of Captain Kidd and His Skeleton Island:

Response to Wilkins letter by the anonymous reviewer:

Wilkins again responded on 3 July 1935.

I do not yet have the full letter but here are some snippets:

Pirate Treasure (1937)

Wilkins published a condensed version of Pirate Treasure in the magazine Short Stories 160 (4), [1937] pp. 153-172:

Short Stories v160 n04 [1937-08-25] : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Pulp Fiction Magazine

archive.org

Magazine Contents Lists: Page 1138

"The Money Pit" by Parker Morell in The Saturday Evening Post (1939):

https://www.oakislandarchives.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/hedden-sat-post1939.compressed.pdf

A photo of Elizabeth Dick aboard the La Morna from a French publication.

I am still looking for access to read -

Naval Review (London), vol. 23 (1935):

Harold T. Wilkins, "Captain Kidd's Treasure", The Passing Show May 6 (1933) v2 #59, pp. 5-6:

Harold T. Wilkins, "Captain Kidd and his Treasure Island", December 1936 in The Scottish Field.

 

[gjb]

So, The consensus is that Palmer was part of an elaborate 'Hoax' involving several conspirators, which involved making fake chests and charts, fabricating fake provenance letters, doctoring photo's, and making-up descendants of historical personalities all to (in this case) sell an alleged bogus pirate sword for the sum of £5 pounds?
And all this sounds reasonable to you people?

You should consider the buying power of £5 at that time, which was about $25. That would have been two or three weeks wages in the UK. In 1933, the weekly magazine in which Wilkins announced Palmer having obtained the maps cost 2d (two old pennies) which means that the sword represented 600 such magazines, and you could buy 10 to 12 brand new hardback books for £5.

You might try putting that buying power into today's money.

 

[gjb]

The articles I managed to find and a few extras.

The Literary Digest (22 May 1937), pp. 25-27

View attachment 2218865

View attachment 2218866
View attachment 2218867

The Listener (5 June 1935), p. 983

Listener 1935-06-05: Vol 13 Iss 334 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

archive.org

Anonymous review of Captain Kidd and His Skeleton Island:

View attachment 2218917
View attachment 2218918

The Listener (19 June 1935), p. 1065

Listener 1935-06-19: Vol 13 Iss 336 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

archive.org

Letter response by Harold T. Wilkins to 5 June 1935 anonymous review of Captain Kidd and His Skeleton Island:

View attachment 2218873
View attachment 2218874
View attachment 2218875

Response to Wilkins letter by the anonymous reviewer:

View attachment 2218878
View attachment 2218923
View attachment 2218924
View attachment 2218925

Wilkins again responded on 3 July 1935.

I do not yet have the full letter but here are some snippets:

View attachment 2218944

View attachment 2218926

Pirate Treasure (1937)
View attachment 2218916

Wilkins published a condensed version of Pirate Treasure in the magazine Short Stories 160 (4), [1937] pp. 153-172:

Short Stories v160 n04 [1937-08-25] : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Pulp Fiction Magazine

archive.org

Magazine Contents Lists: Page 1138

View attachment 2218919

"The Money Pit" by Parker Morell in The Saturday Evening Post (1939):

https://www.oakislandarchives.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/hedden-sat-post1939.compressed.pdf

A photo of Elizabeth Dick aboard the La Morna from a French publication.

View attachment 2218862

I am still looking for access to read -

Naval Review (London), vol. 23 (1935):

View attachment 2218945

Harold T. Wilkins, "Captain Kidd's Treasure", The Passing Show May 6 (1933) v2 #59, pp. 5-6:

View attachment 2218946

Harold T. Wilkins, "Captain Kidd and his Treasure Island", December 1936 in The Scottish Field.

With respect to The Literary Digest article, describing the map found in the Hardy Chest: the Coral Island Map is described as being in red and black ink, as was the version of the map that I saw.

The Passing Show article confirms this description and also reads, "The map is orientated with compass bearings, a lagoon is marked on its southeast side, and a coral reef on the west. A number of crosses on high land in the interior denote caches... at the foot of the chart a legend ... directs the treasure-hunter to step out so many feet by a compass bearing which will bring him to a big tree, when he will swing round to another compass point and head for certain rocks - blank feet by blank feet..."

I respectfully submit that this is clearly describing the Coral Island Map. It isn't proof, but it's a sure indication that this map may well not have been in the Morgan Chest.

 

[Crow]

Hi crow,
I expected you would call me out on this as per your post #43. My point is that it takes more than a simple Google search to locate that info. Have you tried your expertise to research Miss Pamela Hardy, or Dan Morgan?

Hello Randawng72

I refer you back to posts 601 and 628. I am not repeating myself.

Crow

 

[Crow]

Here is some information about wages 1927 WAGES (STATISTICS). HC Deb 08 December 1927

States average of the ordinary minimum rates throughout England and Wales is in the case of male workers, 31s. 8d. per week

The British shilling, abbreviated "1s" or "1/-", was a unit of currency and a denomination of sterling coinage worth 1⁄20 of one pound, or twelve pre-decimal pence.

Average wages England 1927

Crow

 

[Cryptid1990]

Doing a quick search, I couldn't locate birth or death records for Hubert H Palmer either, but we all seem to agree that he existed.

I have an account on Ancestry.co.uk. Why is it I found multiple records for Hubert Palmer, Arthur Hill Cutler, and Elizabeth Dick but not a single record for Pamela Hardy or Dan Morgan? I already posted an obituary for Cutler as well and as Crow noted, Palmer's was published in multiple newspapers. Palmer's name appears in a census record (1911), the electoral register and civil registration death index. Crow has already posted some of these and more. Note that you can access this information without paying for a membership on Ancestry.co.uk. While you have to pay to open these records, if you search Palmer's name and location (Eastbourne) the records confirm Palmer's name appears inside and this information is available for free (without paying to open the records).

This is not mentioned in his book, can you please cite your reference?

It is on page 228. Note, I have not actually looked much into the provenance of the Yunnan Parchment despite Edmunds (1996) providing some details since my focus previously was on the maps, however, I will see what I can now dig up. There is no doubt Cutler sold the Yunnan Parchment to Palmer. If you continue reading page 228 you will note Edmunds admits: "We may also recall at this point that Palmer came into possession of the Morgan 'skull' chest through Cutler." However, it was not only the Yunnan Parchment/Morgan Chest that Palmer acquired from Cutler but the oak bureau and workbox (Palmer's private letters in Gjb's possession, confirm both). As for the Hardy Chest, Cutler was almost certainly involved based on the information Wilkins provides.

Edmunds goes on to note Cutler sold a fake item -

"Cutler did once sell Palmer an item which was purported to have belonged to Prince Rupert of the Rhine, and as Howlett personally discovered after having taken expert opinions, was clearly a fake."

There's no proof that all the items were purchased from Cutler. The odds of one man acquiring the charts are slim but not improbable.

Nah, you're wrong. The fact all the maps and Yunnan Parchment came from Cutler is obviously problematic to your dogmatic belief the maps and parchment are authentic Kidd objects, so you're left with denying Cutler's involvement. Your belief is not tenable.

These items simply didn't have enough value in the 1930's to justify creating a hoax. At the Palmer estate auction held in July of 1950, the Oak bureau sold for £33 pounds, the Hardy chest sold for £11, and the Yunnan mirror £2. One of the Kidd charts (not specified) was withdrawn because the highest bid of £25 did not meet the reserve.
If pushing fake pirate relics for monetary gain was the primary motive for the alleged hoax, then the elaborate effort was a complete failure.

As Gjb points out these prices compared to today are considerably higher amounts.

A local man from Eastbourne in 1951 bid £25 for one of the maps which is equivalent to roughly £1,000 today.

£25 in 1951 → 2026 | UK Inflation Calculator

£25 in 1951 is equivalent in purchasing power to about £1,019.32 in 2026. Compare inflation, CPI, and purchasing power using the Office for National Statistics data.

www.in2013dollars.com

However, my personal view is the hoax had little to do with money - it was much more about creating a pirate treasure map/hunt since Hubert Palmer was obsessed with Treasure Island and the hoaxer was imitating the map in that book. I will post more on this later.

@gjb, do you have any private letters which discuss Palmer's book collection (he apparently owned many copies of Treasure Island)?

 

[gjb]

I have an account on Ancestry.co.uk. Why is it I found multiple records for Hubert Palmer, Arthur Hill Cutler, and Elizabeth Dick but not a single record for Pamela Hardy or Dan Morgan? I already posted an obituary for Cutler as well and as Crow noted, Palmer's was published in multiple newspapers. Palmer's name appears in a census record (1911), the electoral register and civil registration death index. Crow has already posted some of these and more. Note that you can access this information without paying for a membership on Ancestry.co.uk. While you have to pay to open these records, if you search Palmer's name and location (Eastbourne) the records confirm Palmer's name appears inside and this information is available for free (without paying to open the records).

View attachment 2219035


It is on page 228. Note, I have not actually looked much into the provenance of the Yunnan Parchment despite Edmunds (1996) providing some details since my focus previously was on the maps, however, I will see what I can now dig up. There is no doubt Cutler sold the Yunnan Parchment to Palmer. If you continue reading page 228 you will note Edmunds admits: "We may also recall at this point that Palmer came into possession of the Morgan 'skull' chest through Cutler." However, it was not only the Yunnan Parchment/Morgan Chest that Palmer acquired from Cutler but the oak bureau and workbox (Palmer's private letters in Gjb's possession, confirm both). As for the Hardy Chest, Cutler was almost certainly involved based on the information Wilkins provides.

View attachment 2219038

Edmunds goes on to note Cutler sold a fake item -

"Cutler did once sell Palmer an item which was purported to have belonged to Prince Rupert of the Rhine, and as Howlett personally discovered after having taken expert opinions, was clearly a fake."


Nah, you're wrong. The fact all the maps and Yunnan Parchment came from Cutler is obviously problematic to your dogmatic belief the maps and parchment are authentic Kidd objects, so you're left with denying Cutler's involvement. Your belief is not tenable.


As Gjb points out these prices compared to today are considerably higher amounts.

A local man from Eastbourne in 1951 bid £25 for one of the maps which is equivalent to roughly £1,000 today.

View attachment 2219045

£25 in 1951 → 2026 | UK Inflation Calculator

£25 in 1951 is equivalent in purchasing power to about £1,019.32 in 2026. Compare inflation, CPI, and purchasing power using the Office for National Statistics data.

www.in2013dollars.com

However, my personal view is the hoax had little to do with money - it was much more about creating a pirate treasure map/hunt since Hubert Palmer was obsessed with Treasure Island and the hoaxer was imitating the map in that book. I will post more on this later.

@gjb, do you have any private letters which discuss Palmer's book collection (he apparently owned many copies of Treasure Island)?

If you refer to Palmer's letter to Wilkins concerning the acquisition of the Yunnan Parchment you'll note that Edmunds is once again in error. Palmer was clearly ecstatic about the discovery of this '5th Map'. Edmunds also got the year of purchase completely wrong.

Palmer didn't say much about his book collection, only a few books are mentioned and some magazines he bought or subscribed to.

 

[Cryptid1990]

If you refer to Palmer's letter to Wilkins concerning the acquisition of the Yunnan Parchment you'll note that Edmunds is once again in error. Palmer was clearly ecstatic about the discovery of this '5th Map'. Edmunds also got the year of purchase completely wrong.

Palmer didn't say much about his book collection, only a few books are mentioned and some magazines he bought or subscribed to.

I could be mistaken but I remember reading in one of your books you saying Palmer had many copies (27?) of Treasure Island.
If not a private letter is there another source for this?

 

[Cryptid1990]

You don't know this for a fact, so why are you declaring it to be so? The fact that you haven't seen the proof doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't exist.

There is assuredly evidence that Cutler sold the items to Palmer, should Palmer's letters to Harold Wilkins be acceptable as such. As to the Yunnan Parchment, no reference to Edmunds' book is necessary. Palmer actually wrote to Wilkins telling him that he had obtained the 'looking glass' containing the parchment from Cutler. Thus, there is evidence or proof of this despite Edmunds (and you) not actually having seen it, as below.

View attachment 2218940

The underlining and marginal annotations are not original. The reference to 'Hedden' is Gilbert Hedden who had been hunting for treasure on Oak Island. Note that Cutler 'helped' Palmer find the parchment.

Perhaps it might be accepted that what Palmer wrote to Wilkins is correct instead of guessing at what might have been and then declaring that what you choose to believe has to be true. A considerable amount of research has been, and is being, conducted into this matter and you seem bent upon ignoring it all.

To true believers like Randawg72 who believe the maps are authentic Kidd/17th(or early 18th) century, the fact all the items were sold by Cutler to Palmer (or at least were handled by Cutler) is an obvious problem for them so they deny or downplay Cutler's involvement.

How many antiquarian shops were in England in the late 1920s/early 1930s? Let's guess 600. How many were in the US at the time? Let's guess 2500 (these figures are very likely underestimations). How many in France (800), Germany (900), and so on. Why did all four of the maps and the Yunnan Parchment show up in Cutler's little antiquarian shop in Eastbourne, England (within a few years of each other)? Why not a single one elsewhere? That combined with the fact we know Cutler sold many fake items strongly points to Cutler as the hoaxer.

However, I remain unsure of Hubert Palmer's involvement in the hoax hence my interest in his private letters.

 

[gjb]

I could be mistaken but I remember reading in one of your books you saying Palmer had many copies (27?) of Treasure Island.
If not a private letter is there another source for this?

Palmer to Wilkins: May 7th 1936.

 

[Randawg72]

View attachment 2219045

Thank you for your reply.
FYI, The Bank of England's estimate is £684.33.
£25 today would just about cover lunch for two at Subway.

 

[Randawg72]

..strongly points to Cutler as the hoaxer.

However, I remain unsure of Hubert Palmer's involvement in the hoax hence my interest in his private letters.

You have posted this comment several times. But why would Palmer be in cahoots on this alleged hoax? isn't he the patsy who was being fleeced by the hoaxer?
Mr Edmunds (my mentor) believes that Wilkins is the hoaxmaster.
We all have the same historical evidence to draw from. Unfortunately some of the key players' accounts have proven to be unreliable at best.
The provenance (or lack of) is compelling but inconclusive. An incomplete lineage can be viewed as suspicious, but it does not prove the charts are forgeries.
It's really a shame that the original charts can't be located and scientifically tested.
I assume they still exist someplace in the world. My guess would be they are locked in a long forgotten safe deposit box somewhere in Canada.
The Oak Bureau, Sea chests, and Yunnan mirror frame still exist. (The Yunnan frame sold at Fieldings in 2012). Mr Edmunds even knows the current owners and whereabouts of some of these artifacts. Wouldn't it be great to have those items forensically tested by today's experts? Edmunds would never participate in this endeavor as he's already convinced himself that the charts are fake.
The truth is, nobody can prove the charts are real or fake. Unless Kidd's island is located and his treasure found, everything else said on this thread and elsewhere is pure speculation.

 

[Bocaj]

You have posted this comment several times. But why would Palmer be in cahoots on this alleged hoax? isn't he the patsy who was being fleeced by the hoaxer?

Not really, as it is true with many collectors and museums they are complicit.

Someone sells a certified Goya? That is all that is needed. Is is really painted by him? Who cares?

This is how that market works. So that the provenance is fake doesn't prove the object are fake as well. Could be, could be not. Cutler maybe just did his job. He got some furniture with engravings related to Kidd and invented the provenance so Palmer could sleep better. That all (maybe). No big con.

What is really suspicious is the sequence of the discovery (if gjb is wrong) and Palmer's reluctance to publish those maps.

 

[Cryptid1990]

@gjb, I think I found an article that may be of interest to you.

In 1947 Wilkins published an article "Buried Treasure and the Occult" in The Occult Review. I could not find the original article online but found it reprinted in a later book (published in 1968) compiling various articles from The Occult Review. The article discusses Captain Keede (William Keede aka William Kydd who you mention in one of your books [not to be confused with William Kidd].)

Some other articles:

• Wilkins, Harold T. (Mar. 1928). "On The Trail of Hidden Treasures [Part I]", Popular Mechanics 49(3): 434-439.
• Wilkins, Harold T. (Apr. 1928). "On The Trail of Hidden Treasures [Part II]", Popular Mechanics 49(4): 555-559.
• Wilkins, Harold T. (Apr. 1930). "Adventure of Treasure Hunters", Popular Mechanics 53(4): 546-551.
• Wilkins, Harold T. (1931). "Strange Adventure of Treasure-Hunters To-Day", Chambers Journal [I do not have access].
• Wilkins, Harold T. (Nov. 1932). "The Truth About Treasure Hunts", Popular Mechanics 58(5): 754-757.

Note that Wilkins in none of the above treasure hunt or buried treasure articles mentioned the Kidd-Palmer maps. This is because he did not correspond with Palmer by letter and meet him in person until 1932. Thanks for the private letters you published in your book; the timeline makes sense. My understanding is his first article to discuss the maps was published the following year in 1933:

• Harold T. Wilkins, "Captain Kidd's Treasure", The Passing Show May 6 (1933) v2 #59, pp. 5-6.

Wilkins published his book Captain Kidd and His Skeleton Island: the Discovery of a Strange Secret Hidden for 266 Years in 1935.

Wilkins responded to a critical review of his book in The Listener (19 June 1935, p. 1065).

His book was reprinted in the US in 1937 with minor differences (I own both copies).

Between the reprint, he also published two more articles on the Kidd-Palmer maps:

• Wilkins, Harold T. (Dec. 1936). "Captain Kidd and his Treasure Island", The Scottish Field.
• Wilkins, Harold T. (Nov. 1936). "Maps Spur New Hunt For Kidd Treasure", Modern Mechanix 17(1): 42 ff.

In 1940, he published another article discussing the Kidd-Palmer maps. The article (the first in his "On the Treasure Trial of the Wicked Old Pirates" series) was originally published in American Weekly but reprinted in The Boston American (21 January 1940).

In 1947, he published a booklet (I own a copy):

• Wilkins, Harold T. (1947), New Facts About Mysterious Captain Kidd and His Skeleton Island Chests: The Strange Story of a Secret Cunningly Hidden for 272 Years and Discovered in 1943, Girard, Kan.: Haldeman-Julius Co. [B-605].

In 1950, he published an article relevant to the maps again in FATE (magazine) I mentioned in the other thread. I have a copy.

Is there any articles I am missing? I think it is likely between 1940 and 1947 he published another article on the maps.

 

[Cryptid1990]

You have posted this comment several times. But why would Palmer be in cahoots on this alleged hoax? isn't he the patsy who was being fleeced by the hoaxer?
Mr Edmunds (my mentor) believes that Wilkins is the hoaxmaster.
We all have the same historical evidence to draw from. Unfortunately some of the key players' accounts have proven to be unreliable at best.
The provenance (or lack of) is compelling but inconclusive. An incomplete lineage can be viewed as suspicious, but it does not prove the charts are forgeries.
It's really a shame that the original charts can't be located and scientifically tested.
I assume they still exist someplace in the world. My guess would be they are locked in a long forgotten safe deposit box somewhere in Canada.
The Oak Bureau, Sea chests, and Yunnan mirror frame still exist. (The Yunnan frame sold at Fieldings in 2012). Mr Edmunds even knows the current owners and whereabouts of some of these artifacts. Wouldn't it be great to have those items forensically tested by today's experts? Edmunds would never participate in this endeavor as he's already convinced himself that the charts are fake.
The truth is, nobody can prove the charts are real or fake. Unless Kidd's island is located and his treasure found, everything else said on this thread and elsewhere is pure speculation.

Edmunds is wrong about Wilkins. It is very unlikely Wilkins was involved in the hoax based on the timeline and the private letters Gjb has in his possession. We know Palmer first wrote to Wilkins in 1932 and that year they met in person; Wilkins was granted access to inspect one or more of maps [however, at that time the fourth map had not yet been acquired by Palmer] and he may have met Palmer again in 1933 to see the fourth map (the so-called Skeleton Map or Key Chart). Based on this timeline, I do not see how Wilkins was part of the hoax (at least originally) because he appeared 'on the scene' five years after the Hardy Chest/first map was in Palmer's possession. By that time, Palmer had already written to Driscoll (1930) and showed him a photo of the Hardy Chest. It was not until two years later, Palmer got in touch with Wilkins. Other private letters do not suggest Wilkins was involved in the hoax.

As for testing or inspecting the charts, several experts have examined map copies (probably made by Elizabeth Dick) and concluded from these copies that the originals were drawn in the early 20th century and even Edmunds (pp. 222-223) quotes one of these experts: "The handwriting on the charts does not resemble that of William Kidd in the Welbeck Harley papers" and "It is distinctly twentieth century." In my earlier posts in this thread, I also quoted more experts who concluded the maps were made in the early 20th century.

Concerning the original maps, one map was forensically examined by police in 1951. This report is quoted by both Gjb and Edmunds (2016). Below is from Gjb's book Maps, Mystery and Interpretation (Book 1), p. 28:

This map is clearly a fake since the ink was examined, the colour "was not written with any of the coloured inks in use in the seventeenth century. The ink used contains a dye stuff... first produced about two hundred years after Kidd was hanged."

Combined with the fake pedigree notes some of the maps came with and all the other lines of evidence I have presented (e.g., the maps suspiciously appeared in the same antiquarian shop and were sold by Arthur Hill Cutler who was known for selling many other items of dubious provenance), it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt the maps are not authentic (17th century/early 18th century) but early 20th century. Despite everything presented in this thread the maps are a hoax, you have not provided a shred of evidence the maps are authentic and/or were drawn or owned by Kidd. You also use the same fallacious arguments creationist pseudoscientists typically use such as the balance fallacy. It is simply not true "everything else said on this thread and elsewhere is pure speculation." To argue the maps are a hoax has equal value to the far-fetched idea they are authentic is patently nonsense. My view is supported by overwhelming evidence and is almost certainly correct; the same cannot be said for your viewpoint which explains why for past 35 pages you have presented no evidence.

 

[gjb]

@gjb, I think I found an article that may be of interest to you.

In 1947 Wilkins published an article "Buried Treasure and the Occult" in The Occult Review. I could not find the original article online but found it reprinted in a later book (published in 1968) compiling various articles from The Occult Review. The article discusses Captain Keede (William Keede aka William Kydd who you mention in one of your books [not to be confused with William Kidd].)

View attachment 2219370

View attachment 2219359
View attachment 2219360
View attachment 2219361
View attachment 2219362
View attachment 2219363

View attachment 2219364
View attachment 2219365
View attachment 2219366

View attachment 2219367
View attachment 2219368
View attachment 2219369

Some other articles:

• Wilkins, Harold T. (Mar. 1928). "On The Trail of Hidden Treasures [Part I]", Popular Mechanics 49(3): 434-439.
• Wilkins, Harold T. (Apr. 1928). "On The Trail of Hidden Treasures [Part II]", Popular Mechanics 49(4): 555-559.
• Wilkins, Harold T. (Apr. 1930). "Adventure of Treasure Hunters", Popular Mechanics 53(4): 546-551.
• Wilkins, Harold T. (1931). "Strange Adventure of Treasure-Hunters To-Day", Chambers Journal [I do not have access].
• Wilkins, Harold T. (Nov. 1932). "The Truth About Treasure Hunts", Popular Mechanics 58(5): 754-757.

Note that Wilkins in none of the above treasure hunt or buried treasure articles mentioned the Kidd-Palmer maps. This is because he did not correspond with Palmer by letter and meet him in person until 1932. Thanks for the private letters you published in your book; the timeline makes sense. My understanding is his first article to discuss the maps was published the following year in 1933:

• Harold T. Wilkins, "Captain Kidd's Treasure", The Passing Show May 6 (1933) v2 #59, pp. 5-6.

Wilkins published his book Captain Kidd and His Skeleton Island: the Discovery of a Strange Secret Hidden for 266 Years in 1935.

Wilkins responded to a critical review of his book in The Listener (19 June 1935, p. 1065).

His book was reprinted in the US in 1937 with minor differences (I own both copies).

Between the reprint, he also published two more articles on the Kidd-Palmer maps:

• Wilkins, Harold T. (Dec. 1936). "Captain Kidd and his Treasure Island", The Scottish Field.
• Wilkins, Harold T. (Nov. 1936). "Maps Spur New Hunt For Kidd Treasure", Modern Mechanix 17(1): 42 ff.

View attachment 2219373

In 1940, he published another article discussing the Kidd-Palmer maps. The article (the first in his "On the Treasure Trial of the Wicked Old Pirates" series) was originally published in American Weekly but reprinted in The Boston American (21 January 1940).

View attachment 2219374

In 1947, he published a booklet (I own a copy):

• Wilkins, Harold T. (1947), New Facts About Mysterious Captain Kidd and His Skeleton Island Chests: The Strange Story of a Secret Cunningly Hidden for 272 Years and Discovered in 1943, Girard, Kan.: Haldeman-Julius Co. [B-605].

In 1950, he published an article relevant to the maps again in FATE (magazine) I mentioned in the other thread. I have a copy.

Is there any articles I am missing? I think it is likely between 1940 and 1947 he published another article on the maps.

I was aware of the Occult Review piece. The entry in my Wilkins bibliography reads:
1968 The First Occult Review Reader. Ed. Bernhardt J. Hurwood
Award Books 1968 (reprinted permission of Hutchinson: Rider & Co.) Appeared in The Occult Review/Rider's Review
'Jerome': The Shadow of the Zombie
Buried Treasure and the Occult

As you're aware, I hold a large library of Wilkins books, magazines and newspapers with articles collected over the past 50 years, some of which have been referenced here. I also hold unpublished manuscripts by Wilkins that pertain to his work on Kidd and the maps.

You seem to have found most of what I've collected concerning the Kidd maps in the form of the actual books, newspapers and magazines. Well done! I certainly wish the internet had been in existence when I was researching. I had to travel far and wide to visit libraries in several countries and then go through manual indexes and actually had to read through many of the books and collections of magazines and newspapers!

Something I've been wanting to follow up. In December 1949, Wilkins wrote in a letter, "Have sold Capt. Kidd feature at a good price to Coronet Magazine in U.S.A., and the chart, done by me, with all the details so long hidden goes in... This is confidential, for the moment.” It’s mentioned again in January 1950 but not thereafter. I failed to find the article in Coronet for 1950 or 1951.

Of incidental interest perhaps: Popular Mechanics 53-4 April 1930 "Adventures of Treasure Hunters" pp 546-551 contains the Ringrose map before Wilkins learnt of the Palmer maps.

Another photo of Wilkins late in life appears in FATE 1953 Sep. Vol 6 No.8 Mystery of the Death Quarry (Bredon Hill)

Aside from the articles on the Flood Map (March 1940) and Mar Del Map (January 1940), The American Weekly has:
June 24, 1945 Hunt on Again for Capt. Kidd's Hoard
Also perhaps of interest to some:
January 28, 1940: William Kidd (No. 2)
February 18, 1940: Avery (No. 5)

There’s so much to go through, I’ll run through it to see if anything else turns up. As you observe, there may be something in his many articles on treasure hunting after 1932.

 

[Bocaj]

Concerning the original maps, one map was forensically examined by police in 1951. This report is quoted by both Gjb and Edmunds (2016). Below is from Gjb's book Maps, Mystery and Interpretation (Book 1), p. 28:

The Sarah W Map was examined? That is the only map that has both the signature, 1669 and CHINA SEA written on it!
The map is most certainly a copy it even says so: 'by me Sarah W'! - in which century and by whom we don't know.

View attachment 2219399

This map is clearly a fake since the ink was examined, the colour "was not written with any of the coloured inks in use in the seventeenth century. The ink used contains a dye stuff... first produced about two hundred years after Kidd was hanged."

Actually the only hard evidence one of the maps (which one?) being fake. He did only examine the 'W.K. 1669' text and it was suspected (Hawkins) that this as the engravings were added later (by Cutler?).

I can't blame who concludes the maps being fakes from all those inconsistencies but also I still can't see hard prove like a letter or similar who states the fact. There is no prove Cutler created those maps.

 

[Cryptid1990]

I was aware of the Occult Review piece. The entry in my Wilkins bibliography reads:
1968 The First Occult Review Reader. Ed. Bernhardt J. Hurwood
Award Books 1968 (reprinted permission of Hutchinson: Rider & Co.) Appeared in The Occult Review/Rider's Review
'Jerome': The Shadow of the Zombie
Buried Treasure and the Occult

As you're aware, I hold a large library of Wilkins books, magazines and newspapers with articles collected over the past 50 years, some of which have been referenced here. I also hold unpublished manuscripts by Wilkins that pertain to his work on Kidd and the maps.

You seem to have found most of what I've collected concerning the Kidd maps in the form of the actual books, newspapers and magazines. Well done! I certainly wish the internet had been in existence when I was researching. I had to travel far and wide to visit libraries in several countries and then go through manual indexes and actually had to read through many of the books and collections of magazines and newspapers!

Something I've been wanting to follow up. In December 1949, Wilkins wrote in a letter, "Have sold Capt. Kidd feature at a good price to Coronet Magazine in U.S.A., and the chart, done by me, with all the details so long hidden goes in... This is confidential, for the moment.” It’s mentioned again in January 1950 but not thereafter. I failed to find the article in Coronet for 1950 or 1951.

Of incidental interest perhaps: Popular Mechanics 53-4 April 1930 "Adventures of Treasure Hunters" pp 546-551 contains the Ringrose map before Wilkins learnt of the Palmer maps.

Another photo of Wilkins late in life appears in FATE 1953 Sep. Vol 6 No.8 Mystery of the Death Quarry (Bredon Hill)

Aside from the articles on the Flood Map (March 1940) and Mar Del Map (January 1940), The American Weekly has:
June 24, 1945 Hunt on Again for Capt. Kidd's Hoard
Also perhaps of interest to some:
January 28, 1940: William Kidd (No. 2)
February 18, 1940: Avery (No. 5)

There’s so much to go through, I’ll run through it to see if anything else turns up. As you observe, there may be something in his many articles on treasure hunting after 1932.

Thanks for the information. I found the 1953 photo:

Wilkins' 1940 articles in The American Weekly were reprinted in numerous newspapers across the US in different states including The Boston American and The Milwaukee Sentinel. In total there were 14 articles in his "On the Treasure Trail of the Wicked Pirates" series. I posted most of these here. Unfortunately, "Hunt on Again for Capt. Kidd's Hoard" (June 24, 1945) was not reprinted so I have no access and cannot read it (The American Weekly is not digitised on any online newspaper archive).

You have more than me and appear to have the largest collection of Wilkins in the world but I own all of Wilkins books (and have physical copies of some of his articles) excluding one booklet I am missing (Dead Cities of Gold and Mystery), so perhaps my collection is the second largest. Some of his booklets (all published by Haldeman-Julius Publishing Company) as you know are very difficult to obtain. It took me a long time to acquire Monsters and Mysteries of America, The Jungles, The Tropics, and The Arctic Wastes: Strange Stories of Modern Adventures Suggesting That The King Kongs and The Dinosaurs May Still Be Alive Today (1947). My photo:

This booklet was reprinted in 2016 by New Saucerian Press under a slightly different title with a funny book cover of a Burger King restaurant and dinosaur statue (I bought this reprint out of curiosity). At first, I thought this might be copyright infringement since it was published by CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform but having looked into the matter - all of Wilkins booklets [1947-1948] have passed into the public domain. Despite published with a copyright notice in the 1940s - the copyright was not renewed so the copyright has expired (this expiration applies to books published between 1930-1963 in the US). New Saucerian Press have also reprinted Wilkins 1935 book Captain Kidd and His Skeleton Island: the Discovery of a Strange Secret Hidden for 266 Years, under a slightly different title.

What is interesting is that Saucerian Press apparently reprinted this book in 1977. The publication history is: UK (London) 1935; US 1937, Saucerian Press 1977 and New Saucerian Press 2017 (these are not really new "editions" since there are only minor differences [excluding the cover art], so are in fact reprints). I have never seen the 1977 reprint. Did it have a different cover art? New Saucerian Press also reprinted Wilkins 1947 booklet on the Kidd-Palmer maps:

There was recently a book published on the eccentric founder of Saucerian Press, Gray Barker.

New Saucerian Press is an authorized continuation of Saucerian Press.

The Saucerian: UFOs, Men in Black, and the Unbelievable Life of Gray Barker

The Saucerian

Gray Barker (1925–1984) was an eccentric literary outsider, filled with ideas that were out of step with the world. An author and unreliable narrator o...

mitpress.mit.edu

 

[Randawg72]

As for testing or inspecting the charts, several experts have examined map copies (probably made by Elizabeth Dick) and concluded from these copies that the originals were drawn in the early 20th century and even Edmunds (pp. 222-223) quotes one of these experts

It's impossible to authenticate any document from a copy. All they can do is offer their opinion based on the composition, handwriting style, and context. Even so, a person's opinion (even a supposed expert opinion) is just that. It's not substantiation, and no respectable researcher would consider it "proof". Plus the same book you referenced contains several statements from experts that claim the charts to be authentic.

Concerning the original maps, one map was forensically examined by police in 1951. This report is quoted by both Gjb and Edmunds (2016). Below is from Gjb's book Maps, Mystery and Interpretation (Book 1), p. 28:

Again, just because someone wrote that a 'policeman' supposedly tested one chart in 1951 it's still not conclusive evidence. And even if true, mid century forensics for chemical testing of ink was not as precise or reliable as it is today. Did he use chromatography, spectroscopy, or mass spectrometry? Do you have the name of the officer involved, or the methods used, or his test results?

it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt the maps are not authentic (17th century/early 18th century) but early 20th century. Despite everything presented in this thread the maps are a hoax, you have not provided a shred of evidence the maps are authentic and/or were drawn or owned by Kidd.

Proven by whom? So far I have not read or heard any conclusive evidence that the charts are fake. And I have already acknowledged that without the actual charts in hand for proper testing (or Kidd's treasure) they cannot be positively authenticated. (By you, me or anyone else).

It is simply not true "everything else said on this thread and elsewhere is pure speculation." To argue the maps are a hoax has equal value to the far-fetched idea they are authentic is patently nonsense. My view is supported by overwhelming evidence and is almost certainly correct

Both views deserve equal consideration until one is proven true. To summarize, you have offered a lot of hearsay, not Evidence to support your case.
Attitude and repetition does not make you "almost certainly correct".
Then, as a capper to your defense, you post that your 'Expert witness' responsible for 98% of your assumed "Proof" is a science fiction and fantasy writer, and confirmed treasure map forger, who believed in the Occult, Ghost ships, Haunted houses, and Cult rituals, Mr Harold T Wilkins!

 

[gjb]

It's impossible to authenticate any document from a copy. All they can do is offer their opinion based on the composition, handwriting style, and context. Even so, a person's opinion (even a supposed expert opinion) is just that. It's not substantiation, and no respectable researcher would consider it "proof". Plus the same book you referenced contains several statements from experts that claim the charts to be authentic.

Again, just because someone wrote that a 'policeman' supposedly tested one chart in 1951 it's still not conclusive evidence. And even if true, mid century forensics for chemical testing of ink was not as precise or reliable as it is today. Did he use chromatography, spectroscopy, or mass spectrometry? Do you have the name of the officer involved, or the methods used, or his test results?

Proven by whom? So far I have not read or heard any conclusive evidence that the charts are fake. And I have already acknowledged that without the actual charts in hand for proper testing (or Kidd's treasure) they cannot be positively authenticated. (By you, me or anyone else).

Both views deserve equal consideration until one is proven true. To summarize, you have offered a lot of hearsay, not Evidence to support your case.
Attitude and repetition does not make you "almost certainly correct".
Then, as a capper to your defense, you post that your 'Expert witness' responsible for 98% of your assumed "Proof" is a science fiction and fantasy writer, and confirmed treasure map forger, who believed in the Occult, Ghost ships, Haunted houses, and Cult rituals, Mr Harold T Wilkins!

I almost gave this a Like, but your equating a forensic expert engaged by the police as a ‘policeman’, even in 1951, leads me to question your overall objectivity. Nevertheless, I do feel that you make some reasonable observations, though I also feel that there is sufficient evidence to suggest that the maps are not necessarily originals but perhaps copies, though hopefully accurate. However, as you say, we don’t know either way and nobody should be declaring that they do.

You also seem to be suggesting that because Wilkins was eccentric, to put it mildly, then the information he collected in his research into Kidd and the maps is therefore questionable. This doesn’t follow. Just as with the Palmer maps, the text on the Wilkins maps may equally have been copied from somewhere else. The information that the maps contain could perhaps be original, though the maps containing the information are not.

Clearly, then, my view is not to declare the maps to be original, nor to declare them to be known fakes, but to focus on what they say and to attempt to make sense of them. That is, to let what they say determine what they are. Declaring the maps to be known fakes, and therefore ignoring what they say, may be precisely what prevents us from discovering the information we're looking for.